WI Drunk Driving Sentencing:Rant Ahead

[yoopermom]

Thanks for all the replies. I believe he walked away from it because he was in a large pickup, going v. fast, and just cremated (not the technical term, I know) the small compact.

I was sickened, too, because comments were made about who had a bigger turnout at the sentencing, him or the victim's family. (He did, and they went on and on about what a great person he was...now how did that make the poor mom feel?)

There were also racial (ethnic?) undertones because of the fact that the drunk driver was a middle class white good ol' boy, and the victims were not.

Made me ashamed in so many ways....

Terri

 

[N.Bailey]

So long as he is in prison, there is one thing I can guarantee you he will NOT do. He will not get behind the wheel and kill more people. That's a big plus to me.

A good many drunk drivers will not stop driving while impaired, even after a conviction. They simply won't. True story, with name changed: I had a friend who had everything in the world going for him. Handsome, most popular guy in his class, came from a good family, every chance at a successful life, etc. Everyone loved this guy. I'll call him Matt.

Matt drove drunk while in his teens and the accident resulted in the death of his best friend. You'd have thought that would have stopped him in his tracks, but no. A few years later, he was driving after kicking back quite a few and mowed down a pedestrian, killing him. He got a conviction for that one, but it was probated with no jail time. Keep in mind, he drove drunk more times than those two, but he just got caught in the two that resulted in fatalities.

What finally stopped him? While still in his 20s, he was involved in one more fatal drunk driving accident. This time, he killed a good friend whose wife was about to have a baby......and himself. It was a particularly gruesome accident. Pretty much everyone who knew him was convinced that had he not died in that wreck, he would have continued to drink and drive.

Sadly, Matt is not that rare a case. If he had been slapped in prison for a few years after he killed the second guy, maybe he'd have changed his ways (a big maybe) and still be alive today. Certainly his passenger from the third fatal DWI would have lived to see his child born.

Yes, I am aware that if he's incarcerated you can take it to the bank that he won't be on the streets doing this again. However, can you be sure that the next child predator, who will be released simply to clear that cell up, isn't going to go out and rape and murder another child, or 2, or 3, or 4, or 5..........

It comes down to hard choices. We do not have the money to accommodate all the criminals currently in the system, let alone future ones.

That's precisely why I asked you (generic sense of the word) if you want them locked up at ANY cost. We don't know how high that price tag might be tomorrow. In a perfect world, all of our children would be safe.

Oh, and I didn't say they should receive any jail time. I just don't see them as the same monster that intentionally plans first degree murder (and sometimes, these monsters don't get much time either). In the past, the law has been lenient on offenders of many different acts (rape is a perfect example). As time goes by however, we are seeing stiffer punishments and I think DWI should be punishable severely and especially when a death results. I just don't think these felons are in the same league with those who commit intentional acts and I do feel they could be put to use for the betterment of society once released. I can assure you, a pedophile can't be rehabilitated. Someone who drinks and drives can and hopefully will be in the end.

I know it sounds harsh to go with the either or scenario, but that's truly where we are in this country anymore. We no longer can eat our cake and have it too.

 

[N.Bailey]

I often wonder HOW it is that the drunk driver can be in an accident so horrific to kill an entire family - but only suffers scrapes and bruises - and is alive to go to trial. Is that their first form of punishment - they have to live with what they have done?

This happens normally because when someone is drunk, their body doesn't tense up like someone seeing what's coming their way. Sad but true.

 

[creativeamanda]

I can't even imagine being that drunk. Let alone driving.

Can't argue that he was going crazy-fast in dangerous conditions.

I did notice, though....5 adult-sized people (well, maybe not the 12 year old, so semi-adult sized), with two of the daughters pregnant, in a *compact* car? Is that even possible? Legal? One does wonder about seatbelts when there's a fatal situation like that. One wonders if they were being worn, and if not, what could have been if they had been worn.

I can assure you, I drive a Ford Focus, which is a compact car. It is designed for 5 passengers, albeit not always comfortably, with seatbelts for everyone.

I have a concern that a person would think it's okay here to blame the victims.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

This happens normally because when someone is drunk, their body doesn't tense up like someone seeing what's coming their way. Sad but true.

Yep--they are too relaxed in their party to react to the collision and their bodies jello blob reflexes ends up usually saving their life.

My brother's partner had his sister--a sheriff's deputy killed by a drunk driver. I unfortuantely came across a written account of her injuries (can't remember how--but her co-workers certainly wanted her death to not be in vain). I couldn't read all of it--but it was bad. Very very polar to the drunk driver who was as unscathed as he could be physically.

 

[Maude4Disney]

These people really could make a difference, if along with a prison sentence, they had to do a lot of community service once released (talking to others about their experience - especially our youth). Lesser sentences combined these types of stipulations could really take a horrific event and make a small contribution for the betterment of society.

I just don't think these felons are in the same league with those who commit intentional acts and I do feel they could be put to use for the betterment of society once released.

I'm sorry, but are you serious? I lost my father 38 yrs ago by a drunk driver... underage at that. He didn't get a slap on the hands, because that's how they did things then. Anyway, he didn't go on to make a difference. Taking someones life taught him nothing. He left a young mother to raise 3 young kids on her own and he went on to continue drinking and doing drugs. Needless to say I did a happy dance when I learned that he died last year from a drug overdose. I know he finally got what was coming to him.

I know this sounds harsh and I'm really not a harsh person, but when it comes to this subject, I take it personally.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I can assure you, I drive a Ford Focus, which is a compact car. It is designed for 5 passengers, albeit not always comfortably, with seatbelts for everyone.

I have a concern that a person would think it's okay here to blame the victims.

I don't get it either. As long as a vehicle is being used safely in line with the laws of the state--it is not the victim's fault if they get nailed and murdered by a drunk driver.

 

[RangerPooh]

I can't even imagine being that drunk. Let alone driving.

Can't argue that he was going crazy-fast in dangerous conditions.

I did notice, though....5 adult-sized people (well, maybe not the 12 year old, so semi-adult sized), with two of the daughters pregnant, in a *compact* car? Is that even possible? Legal? One does wonder about seatbelts when there's a fatal situation like that. One wonders if they were being worn, and if not, what could have been if they had been worn.

I have a PT cruiser which is considered a compact car, and it can seat 5 legally.

I think what this driver did was disgusting! Imagine what the mom must be going through? I would not have wanted to be the officer sent to inform her that her family was gone. That must have been gut wrenching! I do have mixed feelings on his sentince. Part of me wishes that it was longer while the other part of me realizes that for a drunk driving charge with manslaughter it was probably at the upper limits of what the court deemed reasonable. But is it? Probably not. We can only hope that he does have to serve the majority of his term and that he is left with the reminder of what he has done.

 

[yoopermom]

Having driven both pickups and compact cars in the snowy,rutty roads we have up here, I can picture, too, that pickup coming at them at high speed, and the little compact car literally not being able to get away, not even having a chance.

And I will gladly pay even more than I do now in order to lock this person up. Why? Because if he's released, even if he's told he will never have a legal driver's license again, I can guarantee you he will drive ANWAY. I can't tell you how many people I know who drive after revocation. Makes me sick.

Terri

 

[N.Bailey]

I'm sorry, but are you serious? I lost my father 38 yrs ago by a drunk driver... underage at that. He didn't get a slap on the hands, because that's how they did things then. Anyway, he didn't go on to make a difference. Taking someones life taught him nothing. He left a young mother to raise 3 young kids on her own and he went on to continue drinking and doing drugs. Needless to say I did a happy dance when I learned that he died last year from a drug overdose. I know he finally got what was coming to him.

I know this sounds harsh and I'm really not a harsh person, but when it comes to this subject, I take it personally.

My own mother was walking when she was hit by a vehicle. Every bone in her body was broken except the one going down the forearm on her right arm. She was my best friend and I have never had to deal with anything more traumatizing in my entire life than her death. We saw each other almost daily. I was 27, she was 50. There was no alcohol involved with the driver, but there were drugs involved. It's hit home for me too, but it's not changed my opinion. Actually, the whole ordeal has probably played a part in shaping my opinion. There was no winner! Poor choices were made and dire consequences were left to unfold. I couldn't bring my mother back and if I could, I'd have done ANYTHING in my power. The guy driving the car has to live with his choices too and IMO, they are harder to live with than anything the courts could hand down. He was a man that made a horrible choice/choices. He did not intend to harm anyone. That doesn't change a single fact of what happened, but I have no doubt that he's as sorry that it happened as I am.

How does throwing him in prison for the rest of his life better anything? It shifts the burden of his care to the taxpayer, his family suffers because he made a poor choice, my mother doesn't get to come back. He's no longer paying taxes. and on, and on, and on, and on..... Who wins? At least if he's not in prison for the rest of his natural life, he can come out and start making restitution. I don't mean paying me money, but rather, earning his own keep, owning up to his responsibility to his own family, and maybe, just maybe, talking to others where he might make a difference in someone else's life. If he could talk 1 person out of getting behind the wheel after a party, it's so worth it, IMO.

If part of the punishment IS community service (talking about DUIs at schools and such), yes, they could make a difference.

 

[DisneyBamaFan]

My own mother was walking when she was hit by a vehicle. Every bone in her body was broken except the one going down the forearm on her right arm. She was my best friend and I have never had to deal with anything more traumatizing in my entire life than her death. We saw each other almost daily. I was 27, she was 50. There was no alcohol involved with the driver, but there were drugs involved. It's hit home for me too, but it's not changed my opinion. Actually, the whole ordeal has probably played a part in shaping my opinion. There was no winner! Poor choices were made and dire consequences were left to unfold. I couldn't bring my mother back and if I could, I'd have done ANYTHING in my power. The guy driving the car has to live with his choices too and IMO, they are harder to live with than anything the courts could hand down. He was a man that made a horrible choice/choices. He did not intend to harm anyone. That doesn't change a single fact of what happened, but I have no doubt that he's as sorry that it happened as I am.

How does throwing him in prison for the rest of his life better anything? It shifts the burden of his care to the taxpayer, his family suffers because he made a poor choice, my mother doesn't get to come back. He's no longer paying taxes. and on, and on, and on, and on..... Who wins? At least if he's not in prison for the rest of his natural life, he can come out and start making restitution. I don't mean paying me money, but rather, earning his own keep, owning up to his responsibility to his own family, and maybe, just maybe, talking to others where he might make a difference in someone else's life. If he could talk 1 person out of getting behind the wheel after a party, it's so worth it, IMO.

If part of the punishment IS community service (talking about DUIs at schools and such), yes, they could make a difference.

Wow! That is a powerful story. You are a very understanding and forgiving person.

 

[N.Bailey]

I don't get it either. As long as a vehicle is being used safely in line with the laws of the state--it is not the victim's fault if they get nailed and murdered by a drunk driver.

It wouldn't matter to me if they were in the vehicle illegally. That still wouldn't mean they are worthy of death. Look at that accident a few years back with the drug driver who hit that minivan and tore it apart. This was one of the most horrific drunk driving accidents in history.

http://swampbubbles.com/five-dead-1-280-michael-gagnon-adrian-michigan-responsible

 

[N.Bailey]

Wow! That is a powerful story. You are a very understanding and forgiving person.

Actually, I'm not. I just see a huge difference between an intentional act and a horrible mistake.

 

[N.Bailey]

Having driven both pickups and compact cars in the snowy,rutty roads we have up here, I can picture, too, that pickup coming at them at high speed, and the little compact car literally not being able to get away, not even having a chance.

And I will gladly pay even more than I do now in order to lock this person up. Why? Because if he's released, even if he's told he will never have a legal driver's license again, I can guarantee you he will drive ANWAY. I can't tell you how many people I know who drive after revocation. Makes me sick.

Terri

Of course you'd pay more for HIM, but how much more are you willing to pay each year to build the prisons that we need to house everyone that needs housed? It's so easy to say you'd toss in a few spare bucks, but we're talking into the billions if not hundreds of billions. Are you ready to pony up an additional say, $400 a month to only house convicted felons? Each inmate can cost upward to $50,000 a year in some state prisons (would be a fairly high rate, but all of them are high even if not quite this much). I'm just tossing numbers out there, but truly, how much are you willing to pay? It's kind of rhetorical, but I hope you get my meaning. We can't base these types of decisions on emotions. I guess we can all be thankful that we don't have to make the tough calls.

 

[Deb in IA]

Given the facts in this article, is doesn't seem as though there is any blame on the victims, so where exactly are you going with this, Bumbershoot?

I find blaming the victims repugnant too, Circle, but knowing Bumber's pattern of behavior, she will NEVER come back to this thread, and she will NEVER answer your question, even when she is still on these boards, as evidenced by the little green dot.

She just drops in, posts something ridiculous, and never returns.

 

[yoopermom]

Unless you can PROMISE me that he will never be allowed to get behind the wheel of a vehicle drunk again, I think he should get the maximum sentence.

I simply can't be as forgiving, I'm sorry.

Terri

 

[FireDancer]

25 years which can be reduced to 19!! So he'll be 59, at most when he gets out.

Actually he will be 59 at least and 65 at most since 19 year is the minimum and not the maximum.

It looks like the sentence was the outcome of a plea deal and not a conviction. It isn't all that uncommon for a plea to involve a sentence that is less then the maximum. Like it or loath it, that is a pretty standard part of our admittedly flawed justice system.

 

[CircleofLife]

I find blaming the victims repugnant too, Circle, but knowing Bumber's pattern of behavior, she will NEVER come back to this thread, and she will NEVER answer your question, even when she is still on these boards, as evidenced by the little green dot.

She just drops in, posts something ridiculous, and never returns.

Ahh...thanks. I will have to remember that. She sounds like just a lovely person.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Actually, I'm not. I just see a huge difference between an intentional act and a horrible mistake.

I can see that on someone's first time.

But when someone has a history (I think the driver in my story was 3x convicted or something and had served jail tme)--it is no longer a "horrible mistake". It is someone not learning their lesson when they are well aware from personal experience that they will produce a terrible outcome with their reckless behavior.

Kind of like the 10, 20, life rule we have/had here in Florida regarding crimes commited with a gun. Things are more leniant when its your first time of stupidity than when you have demonstrated a repeated pattern that you are refusing to rehabilitate, you are certainly no longer "making mistakes".

ETA:
I can see that there are no winners. But sometimes, providing a suitable consequence isn't about having a winner. For some people who commit criminal acts--the consequence should be to prevent them from doing the same thing again. I will never believe that the person who caused the death by negiligence or illegal act--to EVER feel anywhere as horrible as the people who suffered the loss. Especially if that person is a habitual offender.

I remember a drag racing story where a young man caused the death of a mother and daughter. Dad was devestated but displayed an amazingly wonderful ability to forgive. HOWEVER--he did so, so that they could together education people on the risks of street racing and create venues for safe street racing so that the tragedy did not have to happen to another family. The young man was very grateful for the forgiveness and you can be darn certain he wasn't going to commit the same stupid act again. I'm okay with something like that. Had the young man lacked remorse and not taken responsibility for his actions and failed to repent his mistake, I seroiusly doubt the story would have turned out the same way.

 

[BabyTigger99]

http://www.peshtigotimes.net/?id=10882

Not to sound heartless, but there is more to this story (we get lots of coverage, victims were from my area). No one in the car was wearing a seatbelt, and the driver blew a stop sign, which is when he was broadsided by the drunk driver.