Why would anyone do this to another human being?

[Magic Mom]

what purpose does a web cam serve in a dorm room? would it be used for school purposes?

Skyping to talk to family and friends?

 

[moon]

YOu used the word ousted by mistake but looking at the dictionary definition of the word it is perfect for this situation

oust·ed, oust·ing, ousts
1. To eject from a position or place; force out: "the American Revolution, which ousted the English" (Virginia S. Eifert).
2. To take the place of, especially by force; supplant. See Synonyms at

That's good to know. Thank you!

 

[Bella the Ball 360]

While it is sad what happened let's remember that this is just a plain old stupid prank that lead to an awfully bad outcome.

Should the kids who did this be punished. Yes. Should their lives be ruined because of it - probably not.

I don't believe in a million years they ever imagined that the kid would commit suicide.

They were having a discussion about the on "Morning Joe" today and their were arguments on both sides.

The problem that "stupid prank" is that bullying of any form or invasion of privacy is illegal. So for the stupid prank one parent is without his child forEVER while the other parents can view this as a blip on the the potentially long timeline of their children's lives.

Honestly, I know this was not meant to be trivalized but that is what was done when this atrocity is labed a "stupid prank". From my parent's point of view it is time for an "eye for an eye".
WE are talking about adults who did this and conceivably intellegent adults since I assume one needs a decent gpa to get into Rutgars.

I am so sick of people passing of hurtful behavior toward others as stupid pranks or ignorance on the part of the perpetrator. THAT is where the problem lies.

My husband had done business with this young man's dad and I cannot even imagine what that man feels like today.

 

[PollyannaMom]

I wonder how much shows like Pranked and Punked promote or encourage this kind of behavior especially in that age group. Do kids find it more acceptable to embarrass people on screen because they grew up seeing it done over and over. I realize those victims must have signed releases, but those details aren't pointed out ever on those shows.

I'm not using that as any kind of excuse. I'm just wondering about a correlation.

I think you have a great point!! And I think other "reality" shows, like Big Brother and Survivor, contribute to bullying as well. We as a society are showing our children that forming "alliances" and ganging up on someone to "get rid of them" are perfectly normal behavior, and then we wonder why kids act this way towards each other.

I know people will say "it's not geared toward children" but so many people let them watch anyway, and even the ones who are not watching hear about it all-the-time. It's what the adults and teens are talking about, and kids will overhear.

And I know some will say "kids can tell the difference between reality and TV", but we're calling it "reality", for goodness sake! If we, as a society, want our young people to learn morals and manners and kindness, we have to do a better job of surrounding them with morals and manners and kindness.

I certainly don't mean to absolve the "kids" in the original topic. I don't think TV made them do it. And by college, even with bad influences, they should have been able to sort out that what they did was cruel! They still broke laws, and should still be fully prosecuted. I'm just agreeing that the current media isn't helping us help kids.

 

[nydvc]

And I know some will say "kids can tell the difference between reality and TV", but we're calling it "reality", for goodness sake! If we, as a society, want our young people to learn morals and manners and kindness, we have to do a better job of surrounding them with morals and manners and kindness.

.

I think you BOTH make great points. As long as we watch the shows and they get the advertising....they will continue.

I find it interesting that my experience is that the Adults are the people at Disney with the least morals, manners and kindness. ANd if the kids are rude, take a look at the parents, their either ruder or intentionally oblivious (IMO). We cant even get on a ride without being pushed and shoved sometimes.

 

[browneyes106]

Skyping to talk to family and friends?

I agree that could be one reason college students would have webcams in their dorm rooms. There is a woman who works for my company part time and she told me her twin daughters recently left to college out of a state and they talk through Skype a couple of times a week. Another reason for webcams could be some students who talk hybrid or online classes may occasionally need to presentations through webcams.

 

[disfan07]

I hope the rest of their lives are a living he**. And I hope our justice system makes sure it is.

How can some people think this is no more than a "stupid prank"???? Do you guys really have no compassion or no heart?

They did it TWICE. They are college students. They knew exactly what they were doing. I would love to see them charged with murder. That would be justice. They probably dont have any remorse for what happened so them feeling guilty about it for the rest of their lives probbaly won't work. They probably don't care.

 

[DawnCt1]

I hope the rest of their lives are a living he**. And I hope our justice system makes sure it is.

How can some people think this is no more than a "stupid prank"???? Do you guys really have no compassion or no heart?

They did it TWICE. They are college students. They knew exactly what they were doing. I would love to see them charged with murder. That would be justice. They probably dont have any remorse for what happened so them feeling guilty about it for the rest of their lives probbaly won't work. They probably don't care.

They embarrassed, humiliated and hurt him, but the fact remains, they didn't PUSH him. He made that terrible decision. Its a tragedy and its extremely sad, but it isn't murder. I don't know either of these two students, but I think it is fair to say that they are probably consumed with remorse. We just won't know for a long time because they will have to take the advice of their lawyers.
Could you imagine if one could be charged with murder if what they did was the motivating factor in another's suicide? I couldn't think of anything more inappropriate or chaotic.

 

[luvmy3]

I hope the rest of their lives are a living he**. And I hope our justice system makes sure it is.

How can some people think this is no more than a "stupid prank"???? Do you guys really have no compassion or no heart?
They did it TWICE. They are college students. They knew exactly what they were doing. I would love to see them charged with murder. That would be justice. They probably dont have any remorse for what happened so them feeling guilty about it for the rest of their lives probbaly won't work. They probably don't care.

deleted, you aren't worth the points

 

[Hannathy]

I hope the rest of their lives are a living he**. And I hope our justice system makes sure it is.

How can some people think this is no more than a "stupid prank"???? Do you guys really have no compassion or no heart?

They did it TWICE. They are college students. They knew exactly what they were doing. I would love to see them charged with murder. That would be justice. They probably dont have any remorse for what happened so them feeling guilty about it for the rest of their lives probbaly won't work. They probably don't care.

I happen to agree with you.

I'm sure they knew what they were doing to him. They may not have expected a suicide but they knew what they were doing. and I would be willing to bet an awful lot that these 2 were bullying brats in high school also and their methods have just increased with the fact that the very few checks imposed by parents and teachers have been lifted now that they are in college.

Doing it twice and bragging is what makes me say they knew exactly what they were doing and that they were experienced bullies with no feelings for other people but themselves.

 

[aprilgail2]

I hope the rest of their lives are a living he**. And I hope our justice system makes sure it is.

How can some people think this is no more than a "stupid prank"???? Do you guys really have no compassion or no heart?

They did it TWICE. They are college students. They knew exactly what they were doing. I would love to see them charged with murder. That would be justice. They probably dont have any remorse for what happened so them feeling guilty about it for the rest of their lives probbaly won't work. They probably don't care.

Totally agree!!!!!!!

 

[bumbershoot]

How can some people think this is no more than a "stupid prank"???? Do you guys really have no compassion or no heart?

They did it TWICE. They are college students. They knew exactly what they were doing.

Do you *really* think that they *wanted* him to die???? Do you really think that they knew, from a very brief acquaintance with this man, that he would be the type to commit suicide from this? I think there are few people who would actually kill themselves over such a thing. Be embarrassed, be mortified, oh yes, think about it forever, YES...but end their own life over it?

I do think that it *started* as a stupid prank. I think that it took on a life that they never knew would happen.

In one of the first articles, that someone linked to the other day, before anyone knew that the young man was missing or dead or any other thing about it...a commenter mentioned that this sort of thing, broadcasting one's personal moments, was part of the plot of Revenge of the Nerds. I do think that this was thought of as a stupid prank.

I remember, vaguely, falling to sleep in the bed of a guy down the hall from me, freshman year. We'd smooched, yes, and that was IT, after a long night having beers at his fraternity house...we lived in the same dorm and had walked back together. I remember finding out much later the next day that there had been a virtual line out their door, wanting to see what girl had crashed in Scott's bed... I remember being embarrassed, and hoping that my ankle length skirt was actually at ankle or knee length (I move around while sleeping) and I wasn't exposing anything...

Is that close to what happened in this case? No. Could it be considered a stepping stone? Yes, I think so. People in the dorm wanted to see who was sleeping there, so the word spread and people peeked in. If Flip videocameras, or webcams, or cellphones (other than the huge type they showed drug dealers on Miami Vice) had existed then, I bet someone would have recorded the moment. If digital cameras had existed and no one would have had to pay for the film to be developed, I'm sure someone would have taken a picture. If we'd been doing anything but *sleeping* it's not a far cry to think that someone might have wanted to capture the moment. etc etc etc. Starts with curiousity, goes to a rude idea...and in this case, it went where it went.


Although I'm a "think it through", "worst case scenario" type person, I'm not sure I would have thought, ultimately, that broadcasting this sort of thing would be actually illegal. I find it surprising to think that many people would realize this. So if many people wouldn't realize that, and they started with some stupid idiotic prank, and a prank against someone that, apparently, they hardly knew (freshman year, first month or two, you hardly know anyone)...I bet that those two are incredibly surprised, shocked, and saddened.

It's nearly impossible for me to think that they WANTED him to die... Suicide is a personal decision; outside of a few world cultures, you can't *expect* suicide, and even inside those cultures nowadays the likelihood of suicide isn't 100%. And to think that this sort of result could be *planned* in a culture that doesn't have suicide as a "given" (like the scientists in Korea who were caught cheating...or the milk compan president in China after the tainted milk scandal, etc etc)...I can't see how the *intent* is there for it to actually be "murder".


Just last night I read the article by Dan Savage in The Stranger...started crying while reading it...it was just too danged late for this guy. I actually want to tell ALL teens (and some 20 somethings) that it's all going to get better...but of course some groups have it harder than others...and I think it's lovely that he has started that youtube channel...if only it had been started a few weeks earlier, maybe this young man would have found it...

 

[moon]

I find the the thought that the perpetrators -or most people, for that matter- wouldn't think taping and broadcasting such thing would be illegal really disingenuous. These two were supposedly brilliant adults, technologically savvy who -again- KNEW what they were doing.

I really don't get those who insist in portraying them as some naive kids who only meant to play a joke and it just got out of hand and now are "devastated".

Did they mean for Tyler to kill himself? No they didn't. Their intent was for him to LIVE with the humilliation and pain which they meant to cause him with their broadcast. What kind of twisted mind acts that way?

And what difference does it make that if the technology had been available way back when this would have happened before? Of course it would have, there have always been twisted individuals. "It starts with a rude idea...and in this case it went where it went"? No, the incident didn't tape itself, it didn't broadcast itself. It went where those two took it.

I remember years ago the movie "Flatliners". One of the characters liked to tape girls having sex with him. He didn't show it to anyone; it was for his own viewing, so the element of cruelty and the desire to inflict pain like in Tyler's case was missing; however, that character was utterly repulsive to me, and he was obviously twisted and wired wrongly. The thought that he'd be a doctor was skeevy.

Same with Ravi and Way. I'm sure they are devastated, but probably they biggest grief is how this is affecting them. I find hard to believe that they are grief stricken over Tyler. After all, they never cared for his well being (to put it mildly)

I also refuse to believe that normal, moral people who know right from wrong (and care) purposely set out to cause such pain and hummiliation on another human being. I can't believe that.

 

[DawnCt1]

Same with Ravi and Way. I'm sure they are devastated, but probably they biggest grief is how this is affecting them. I find hard to believe that they are grief stricken over Tyler. After all, they never cared for his well being (to put it mildly)

I also refuse to believe that normal, moral people who know right from wrong (and care) purposely set out to cause such pain and hummiliation on another human being. I can't believe that.

I don't know how we an actually know what they think or feel at this point. I don't think we will find out for a while. In Tyler's own emails he didn't sound that angry. He even said that his roommate was "okay". Lets remember that while Tyler killed himself, the other young man in the room did not. Same invasion of privacy handled in a different way by two different people.

 

[AtlantaSue]

I remember, vaguely, falling to sleep in the bed of a guy down the hall from me, freshman year. We'd smooched, yes, and that was IT, after a long night having beers at his fraternity house...we lived in the same dorm and had walked back together. I remember finding out much later the next day that there had been a virtual line out their door, wanting to see what girl had crashed in Scott's bed... I remember being embarrassed, and hoping that my ankle length skirt was actually at ankle or knee length (I move around while sleeping) and I wasn't exposing anything...

Is that close to what happened in this case? No. Could it be considered a stepping stone? Yes, I think so. People in the dorm wanted to see who was sleeping there, so the word spread and people peeked in. If Flip videocameras, or webcams, or cellphones (other than the huge type they showed drug dealers on Miami Vice) had existed then, I bet someone would have recorded the moment. If digital cameras had existed and no one would have had to pay for the film to be developed, I'm sure someone would have taken a picture. If we'd been doing anything but *sleeping* it's not a far cry to think that someone might have wanted to capture the moment. etc etc etc. Starts with curiousity, goes to a rude idea...and in this case, it went where it went.


Although I'm a "think it through", "worst case scenario" type person, I'm not sure I would have thought, ultimately, that broadcasting this sort of thing would be actually illegal. I find it surprising to think that many people would realize this. So if many people wouldn't realize that, and they started with some stupid idiotic prank, and a prank against someone that, apparently, they hardly knew (freshman year, first month or two, you hardly know anyone)...I bet that those two are incredibly surprised, shocked, and saddened.

Your post illustrates the exact reason why I believe these 2 students should be punished harshly. We live in a different world now than when you crashed at the frat house. At most, 50 people were aware of your transgression. Video/photos of intimate sexual relations posted on the internet would have reached countless people and would still be around somewhere. It is an EXTREME invasion of privacy. As to whether these particular people intended this particular outcome, is irrelevant to me regarding their punishment; they should receive a harsh punishment to send a clear message that YOU JUST DON"T DO THIS; Under the law, will they likely be convicted of murder/manslaughter-I have no idea. But my sincere hope is that they are punished in such a way that no other high school or college students would consider this act to be an acceptable "prank".

 

[CandyMandy]

What's your point?

That the social/political agenda of a particular consituency is driving them to push this particular teen/college age suicide as more noteworthy, important and "crying for remedial action" than the thousands of others that occur annually.

It is not. They are all equally tragic, some victims are not more "special" than others.

 

[Holly]

That the social/political agenda of a particular consituency is driving them to push this particular teen/college age suicide as more noteworthy, important and "crying for remedial action" than the thousands of others that occur annually.

It is not. They are all equally tragic, some victims are not more "special" than others.

Of course they're all tragic. No one said they weren't.

It is, however, noteworthy that LGBT teens are FOUR times as likely to commit suicide than other teens.


If you want to reduce that statistic to a political talking point, that's on you. Run with it.

 

[jodifla]

That the social/political agenda of a particular consituency is driving them to push this particular teen/college age suicide as more noteworthy, important and "crying for remedial action" than the thousands of others that occur annually.

It is not. They are all equally tragic, some victims are not more "special" than others.

Uh, really?

This is noteworthy because of the extreme, calculated and perverse nature of the bullying. Just like the high school girl who took her life after the extreme bulling that happened. Where's your "social/political" angle there?? And that was sure was and is national news.

As an earlier PP said, this rises to a particularly heinous act because it wasn't just 50 people who know/saw, it's millions with the potential for billions.

The crushing scope of it stands out for most of us. Wonder who ANY of us would react if it had been us on that video stream.

 

[LukenDC]

That the social/political agenda of a particular consituency is driving them to push this particular teen/college age suicide as more noteworthy, important and "crying for remedial action" than the thousands of others that occur annually.

It is not. They are all equally tragic, some victims are not more "special" than others.

No one is claiming that LGBT suicides are more "special" than others. Every suicide is a tragedy. Sadly, LGBT teens and those perceived to be gay are subject to bullying at a greater frequency and much more likely to attempt suicide than their heterosexual counterparts. Due to "the social/political agenda of a particular constituency," school administrators are less likely to address the unique issues that lead to harassment of LGBT students and the bullying often continues unabated. Some school officials have even gone so far as to say that LGBT students have brought the bullying on themselves simply for being who they are. That's unacceptable.

I want school administrators and parents to take a firm stand against bullying whatever the cause. No one should be tormented at school.

 

[DawnCt1]

No one is claiming that LGBT suicides are more "special" than others. Every suicide is a tragedy. Sadly, LGBT teens and those perceived to be gay are subject to bullying at a greater frequency and much more likely to attempt suicide than their heterosexual counterparts. Due to "the social/political agenda of a particular constituency," school administrators are less likely to address the unique issues that lead to harassment of LGBT students and the bullying often continues unabated. Some school officials have even gone so far as to say that LGBT students have brought the bullying on themselves simply for being who they are. That's unacceptable.

I want school administrators and parents to take a firm stand against bullying whatever the cause. No one should be tormented at school.

And that really is the bottom line in all of this.