Why would anyone do this to another human being?

[FergieTCat]

Did they know he was gay?

If they knew he was gay then it was public knowledge so how were they outing him?

I really have a hard time describing this as a plan/plot. Sometimes pranks start out relatively harmlessly and then take on a life of their own. Which is exactly what I believe happened in this case.

Tyler's roommate knew he was gay, but Tyler had not yet come out to his family.

 

[Cat0727]

a girl i went to middle school with posted a link to this on her Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Dharun-Ravi-and-Molly-Wei-are-sick-Fcks/106839756046240?ref=mf and wrote: "What's with this facebook page???? Anyone else find it totally absurd?"

and one of her friends commented this: "The comments on the page are absurd, but sadly predictable - actions are too often judged by the result instead of the intent (at least in public opinion). I'm sure those 2 are more devasted about what happened than anyone except for the victim's family."

Is he kidding? I did not want to start a fight on her facebook page so I ignored it but it just made me so mad.

 

[CandyMandy]

Adolescent and college student age suicide has been at epidemic levels for decades. But was concern over that on the front page of every newspaper, the lead story on the Huffington Post and the subject of an extended thread on the DIS?

No.

But all of sudden it is.

Where was all this national heartfelt concern and sense of urgency when four teens simultaneously committed suicide together in Bergenfield, N.J. in 1987? Or when a Cornell student jumped to his death off a campus bridge in 2003? Or when a seminary student in Kansas shot himself in a sorghum field in 1998? Or when a 13 year old from Missouri named Megan Meier hung herself in 2006 after being bullied on MySpace?

I really wonder....

 

[allison443]

Adolescent and college student age suicide has been at epidemic levels for decades. But was concern over that on the front page of every newspaper, the lead story on the Huffington Post and the subject of an extended thread on the DIS?

No.

But all of sudden it is.

Where was all this national heartfelt concern and sense of urgency when four teens simultaneously committed suicide together in Bergenfield, N.J. in 1987? Or when a Cornell student jumped to his death off a campus bridge in 2003? Or when a seminary student in Kansas shot himself in a sorghum field in 1998? Or when a 13 year old from Missouri named Megan Meier hung herself in 2006 after being bullied on MySpace?

I really wonder....

Well, the Megan Meier case was a big national story. It got a huge amount of coverage. Surely you know that.

Did the other cases you mention involve some kind of bullying like Tyler's and Megan's case?

 

[allison443]

Adolescent and college student age suicide has been at epidemic levels for decades. But was concern over that on the front page of every newspaper, the lead story on the Huffington Post and the subject of an extended thread on the DIS?

No.

But all of sudden it is.

Where was all this national heartfelt concern and sense of urgency when four teens simultaneously committed suicide together in Bergenfield, N.J. in 1987? Or when a Cornell student jumped to his death off a campus bridge in 2003? Or when a seminary student in Kansas shot himself in a sorghum field in 1998? Or when a 13 year old from Missouri named Megan Meier hung herself in 2006 after being bullied on MySpace?

I really wonder....

What's your point?

 

[allison443]

Just as? so you really believe that a boy ousted for not being able to perforrm would be in danger for being harrassed, attacked, discriminated, and being killed for it? Because that's the future for a boy who is ousted for being gay

Isn't the term "outed"?

 

[NHdisneylover]

I don't think that is an 'extension' that anyone can make, and I don't think anyone has. It wouldn't have been "funny" under any circumstance. Pranks aren't necessarily funny and being amusing does not define a prank. This behavior was criminal, no doubt about it, but it wasn't manslaughter.

I will say it again--there is some middle ground between prank and manslaughter adn this crime likely falls into that middle ground.

I wonder how much shows like Pranked and Punked promote or encourage this kind of behavior especially in that age group. Do kids find it more acceptable to embarrass people on screen because they grew up seeing it done over and over. I realize those victims must have signed releases, but those details aren't pointed out ever on those shows.

I'm not using that as any kind of excuse. I'm just wondering about a correlation.

I think that is an excellent point. We don't watch much TV so i forget shows like this even exist but they probably do have an effect. Like you, I do not think it is an excuse at all, but I wonder if the culture created by such shows is leading to more of this type of behaviour. Very interesting.

Some on this thread are really hung up over the (my?) use of the word prank. Let me give you another example of where I would use the word prank to see if you can understand my usage.

Years ago I remember a rash of incidents where kids (teenagers) were throwing bricks off of overpasses onto cars. There were major accidents and injuries caused by that PRANK. Was it criminal yes but it still started out as a PRANK.

The PRANK in the current case was not designed to cause the suicide of the victim. Plain and simple.

From this post i would say that yes, you seem to have a very different definition of "prank" than most people. The brick thing would also not be a prank to me as reasonable people would expect that throwing bricks onto a highway would cause serious and lasting harm. Thus, not a prank. However, read further and i quote you again in an area which seems to me to show that regardless of your definition of prank you see this crime as not the big deal that pretty much every other poster here sees it is. So then I start to think you perhaps do define prank as I do and simply to not think this was such a harmful act.

So do you think the intent of the roommate was to oust him so that he would be harrassed, attacked, discriminated and killed? If so, I think thats really jumping to conclusions especially when you don't really know anything about that roommate or his past behaviors or opinions regarding homosexuals.



To me a prank is a trick you play on someone for your own amusement, sometimes it can be something funny, but other times it can be something cruel, and sometimes it is done with the sole purpose to embarass someone.
I do not find what was done in this case funny however I do believe that the roommate and the girl probably thought it was, because 18 year olds can still be immature idiots.



Is anyone really saying that?





Who knows, I'm sure it contrinutes to the way the younger generation views things like privacy. Everything we do/say/feel can be posted for all to see, so I don't think its surprising that there are those who think things like secretly taping people and posting it for the world to see isn't a big deal.

Actually YOU are pretty much really saying rape can be a prank if it is done for the amusement of the rapist with what you said right above what you quoted by me (see the two bolded). SO if someone tricks somebody else into drinking a date rape type drug and rapes them and who knows what else because they think that is funny and amusing then by what you define right above saying no one thinks that THAT would be a prank? I don't think anyone (you included) would really argue rape is a prank--but it is exactly where your argument is leading to.

Just because that jury didn't convict her, doesn't mean that a NJ jury would do the same with these two. Heck...I wish I lived in that county (I am in the next one) I would volunteer to be on that jury!

If Tyler had been 17 and not 18, these two would be facing child porn charges! I wonder what the age of Tylers partner is????

What these two did fits the definition of involuntary manslaughter, which I posted the other day. I hope the Middlesex County prosecutor has the cojones to bring it!

I will not be surprised if the trials are moved to somewhere where the jury can be more impartial (not that you or I or anyone on this thread at all would be able to serve on one if it were in our area).

Maybe they didn't know that. This is a generation that has a "cyberlife" and live on you tube and Facebook. Tyler asked to have his roommate leave the room until midnight. Did they see who he invited into his room? Was he open about who he was meeting there? How many times has the roommate had to leave the room at his roommate's request?
Heterosexual or homosexual, a dorm room that is shared by two or more students in not the place for sex. There is no real privacy in a dorm room and perhaps none should be assumed. That doesn't excuse what they did, which was criminal invasion of privacy however. .

young adults have been having sex in dorm rooms for a looong time. Can it be annoying to have a roommate kick you out for that purpose? Absolutely. Are there ways to handle that without resorting to what happened here? ABSOLUTELY. I bolded one statement because I think that is just plane wrong. You should be able to except that if you are alone in the room you live in then you have privacy at that time. I think it would be really weird to assume that I was being spied on when my roommate was not in the room--the assumption of privacy when the roommate is gone is the natural one. I know i am not expressing this well, but I think it is wrong to decide that university students everywhere should just give up any right to privacy the minute the move into a dorm.

Did they know he was gay?

If they knew he was gay then it was public knowledge so how were they outing him?

I really have a hard time describing this as a plan/plot. Sometimes pranks start out relatively harmlessly and then take on a life of their own. Which is exactly what I believe happened in this case.

SO--getting past the word prank all together, lets just look at the other qualifiers you use. You say this started out RELATIVELY HARMLESS. I honestly cannot fathom how anyone thinks that secretly recording the sex life of anyone else and then broadcasting that to the internet could possibly be "relatively harmless." Would it seriously strike you as such if it had been your sex life broadcast? Your son or daughter's? Your best friend's? Your mother's? Quite honestly, if this is how you feel about it then you and I have such radically different views of right and wrong that we will never come to any sort of middle ground. This utter and complete lack of comprehension of the how devastating such an act would be to most people (most people would see it as quite harmful to themselves) goes well beyond a differing definition of a word.

 

[PaulaSB12]

Maybe they didn't know that. This is a generation that has a "cyberlife" and live on you tube and Facebook. Tyler asked to have his roommate leave the room until midnight. Did they see who he invited into his room? Was he open about who he was meeting there? How many times has the roommate had to leave the room at his roommate's request?
Heterosexual or homosexual, a dorm room that is shared by two or more students in not the place for sex. There is no real privacy in a dorm room and perhaps none should be assumed. That doesn't excuse what they did, which was criminal invasion of privacy however. .

Maybe they didn't? Oh come on that is daft they knew after the first time that he was gay so why tell 150 people to watch someone at their most vunerable and private if not to humiliate and hurt. People talk such rubbish about childhood being too short yet here we have 2 adults being excused on the grounds that they are poor little children who couldn't know any better yet an 8 year old who shoots the man who abused him was threatened with being tried as an adult. In past ages 18 year olds would lead armies now they are treated like they are pratically still in diapers. They hid cameras in the room to find out who he was with. When they found his partner was male they put the act out online live and advertised it that is malicious it caused one young man (18 is a man not a child) to comit suicide and what has been the effect on his partner?

 

[moon]

Isn't the term "outed"?

Yes it is. I just noticed the mistake. Sorry about that

SO--getting past the word prank all together, lets just look at the other qualifiers you use. You say this started out RELATIVELY HARMLESS. I honestly cannot fathom how anyone thinks that secretly recording the sex life of anyone else and the broadcasting that to the internet could possibly be "relatively harmless." Would it seriously strike you as such if it had been your sex life broadcast? Your son or daughter's? Your best friend's? Your mother's? Quite honestly, if this is how you feel about it then you and I have such radically different views of right and wrong that we will never come to any sort of middle ground. This utter and complete lack of comprehension of the how devastating such an act would be to most people (most people would see it as quite harmful to themselves) goes well beyond a differing definition of a word.

MTE. I just can't wrap my mind around such argument.

Maybe they didn't? Oh come on that is daft they knew after the first time that he was gay so why tell 150 people to watch someone at their most vunerable and private if not to humiliate and hurt. People talk such rubbish about childhood being too short yet here we have 2 adults being excused on the grounds that they are poor little children who couldn't know any better yet an 8 year old who shoots the man who abused him was threatened with being tried as an adult. In past ages 18 year olds would lead armies now they are treated like they are pratically still in diapers. They hid cameras in the room to find out who he was with. When they found his partner was male they put the act out online live and advertised it that is malicious it caused one young man (18 is a man not a child) to comit suicide and what has been the effect on his partner?

Exactly. The explanations for the perpetrators behavior have been so baseless and far out there as to be absurd. There was nothing innocent, hasty or harmless about their crime

 

[PaulaSB12]

Yes it is. I just noticed the mistake. Sorry about that



MTE. I just can't wrap my mind around such argument.



Exactly. The explanations for the perpetrators behavior have been so baseless and far out there as to be absurd. There was nothing innocent, hasty or harmless about their crime

YOu used the word ousted by mistake but looking at the dictionary definition of the word it is perfect for this situation

oust·ed, oust·ing, ousts
1. To eject from a position or place; force out: "the American Revolution, which ousted the English" (Virginia S. Eifert).
2. To take the place of, especially by force; supplant. See Synonyms at

 

[DawnCt1]

Maybe they didn't? Oh come on that is daft they knew after the first time that he was gay so why tell 150 people to watch someone at their most vunerable and private if not to humiliate and hurt. People talk such rubbish about childhood being too short yet here we have 2 adults being excused on the grounds that they are poor little children who couldn't know any better yet an 8 year old who shoots the man who abused him was threatened with being tried as an adult. In past ages 18 year olds would lead armies now they are treated like they are pratically still in diapers. They hid cameras in the room to find out who he was with. When they found his partner was male they put the act out online live and advertised it that is malicious it caused one young man (18 is a man not a child) to comit suicide and what has been the effect on his partner?

I think that everyone on this thread agrees that the purpose of taping and posting was intended to humiliate and hurt. There is no disagreement there. In the end, sadly and tragically, Tyler took his own life. He was not murdered nor was he the victim of manslaughter. He was the victim of an egregious invasion of privacy and one could make the case for bullying, but homicide? No.
In addition, no one is making any excuses for these two. No one has considered them poor little children who were victims of anything. On the other hand, where is the outrage at the school authorities that ignored his pleas for help. When the inmates run the asylum, where are the adults?

 

[gina2000]

This isn't a prank. It's a well orchestrated attempt to embarrass and humiliate another human being. The culprits may not have understood the possible consequences but so many criminals do not anticipate nor understand the possible consequences of their actions.

A murder charge is probably not quite correct but to rank this as a prank diminishes all responsibility on the part of the culprits. The internet is the wild, wild west of our world and sooner or later some guidelines will be put into place for those whose mental capacities prohibit them from thinking about the possible consequences of their actions.

 

[kacaju]

Nothing has been mentioned about the person Tyler was with. of course I do not want him named...but think about what this poor *forgotten* victim must be going through

 

[luvmy3]

Actually YOU are pretty much really saying rape can be a prank if it is done for the amusement of the rapist with what you said right above what you quoted by me (see the two bolded). SO if someone tricks somebody else into drinking a date rape type drug and rapes them and who knows what else because they think that is funny and amusing then by what you define right above saying no one thinks that THAT would be a prank? I don't think anyone (you included) would really argue rape is a prank--but it is exactly where your argument is leading to.
.

Just because something done for amusement CAN be considered a prank doesn't mean EVERYTHING done for one's amusement can. You are twisting what I see as a prank, either to bring more controversy to this thread, or because you don't really understand the difference between a prank and a serious, heinous crime like rape. I'm going with the stiring the pot theory because I can't imagine an intelligent adult would really think that what I see as a prank in this story, could equate to someone raping someone


You all need to move past the whole prank thing. It doesn't even matter, there is no arguing that what was done was a crime. The two people involved will face charges on what they did, and our justice system will ensure they are charged with exactly what is fitting for their crime, The fact that some think this started out as a prank has no bearing on any of that, the end result was the end result, they committed a crime and should be punished for it, period.

 

[LuvCuteBoys]

I also don't believe this is gay related issue. I bet they would have done the same thing if he was with a girl (or alone doing something).

As a very straight person who had a very horrible high school experience, I agree with this comment. At least the beginning of it... whether or not they would have taped him with a girl, I have no idea.

But being bullied can happen regardless of your sexual preferences. Trust me. And I think turning it into a hate crime because Tyler was gay takes away from the bigger issue.

 

[theSurlyMermaid]

This is like that scene in American Pie (sans bullying). That scene was played for funny hijinks in the movie but in reality, not so much.

 

[FergieTCat]

I think that everyone on this thread agrees that the purpose of taping and posting was intended to humiliate and hurt. There is no disagreement there. In the end, sadly and tragically, Tyler took his own life. He was not murdered nor was he the victim of manslaughter. He was the victim of an egregious invasion of privacy and one could make the case for bullying, but homicide? No.
In addition, no one is making any excuses for these two. No one has considered them poor little children who were victims of anything. On the other hand, where is the outrage at the school authorities that ignored his pleas for help. When the inmates run the asylum, where are the adults?

What do you think is the proper punishment for, at the very least, breaching the civil right to privacy with the intent to humilate and embarrass?

 

[DawnCt1]

What do you think is the proper punishment for, at the very least, breaching the civil right to privacy with the intent to humilate and embarrass?

The maximum penalty that is allowed by law. I for one would like them to serve some time behind bars. I think that piling on charges that are inappropriate or will never stick will result in nothing.
Again, why isn't there any anger towards the school who essentially ignored him when he asked for help?

 

[NHdisneylover]

Just because something done for amusement CAN be considered a prank doesn't mean EVERYTHING done for one's amusement can. You are twisting what I see as a prank, either to bring more controversy to this thread, or because you don't really understand the difference between a prank and a serious, heinous crime like rape. I'm going with the stiring the pot theory because I can't imagine an intelligent adult would really think that what I see as a prank in this story, could equate to someone raping someone


You all need to move past the whole prank thing. It doesn't even matter, there is no arguing that what was done was a crime. The two people involved will face charges on what they did, and our justice system will ensure they are charged with exactly what is fitting for their crime, The fact that some think this started out as a prank has no bearing on any of that, the end result was the end result, they committed a crime and should be punished for it, period.

Nope--I am in now way trying to stir the pot and OF COURSE I see the difference between rape and a prank. I feel you must too which is why I am trying very hard to understand what it is about THIS story that makes it merely a prank to you and not a serious crime. So far you have not been able to really define that in any way that would not by extension make other various crimes (like rape) also possible pranks. Basically, I am trying to understand in what light you (and a couple of other posters) see this crime because it has really not been made clear. I am sorry if you think being pressed to explain is stirring the pot--it isn't. I just truly like knowing where other people are coming from and trying to understand their points of view.

 

[DawnCt1]

Nope--I am in now way trying to stir the pot and OF COURSE I see the difference between rape and a prank. I feel you must too which is why I am trying very hard to understand what it is about THIS story that makes it merely a prank to you and not a serious crime. So far you have not been able to really define that in any way that would not by extension make other various crimes (like rape) also possible pranks. Basically, I am trying to understand in what light you (and a couple of other posters) see this crime because it has really not been made clear. I am sorry if you think being pressed to explain is stirring the pot--it isn't. I just truly like knowing where other people are coming from and trying to understand their points of view.

I think you are trivializing the word "Prank". A prank can have malicious intent, be dangerous, have serious consequences, etc. This had all three and more. Clearly they weren't "joking around" with him, nor did they expect that he would think it was "funny", I just don't think that they expected he would kill himself.