why,why,why

[daddiojiggy]

how is it that disney can charge $79-$89 a point and nothing goes above $72 on the resale market?does saratoga being available for an extra 10 yrsjustify their higher price?

 

[Dean]

Originally posted by daddiojiggy
how is it that disney can charge $79-$89 a point and nothing goes above $72 on the resale market?does saratoga being available for an extra 10 yrsjustify their higher price?

There are many factors. Some don't know about resale, many are not comfortable with resale, with resale you must pay for closing extra, almost no financing options resale, etc.

 

[Granny]

Gee...I always figured it was because they were "used" timeshares and not new!


Seriously, another reason is because Disney keeps upping the price for new ownership. So many people who are selling are still recouping all or most of their cost even $10 a point below the current SSR pricing. I don't think that most people who sell are trying to score a big profit since that's now why they bought in the first place.

 

[daddiojiggy]

how much can i expect to have as closing costs on resale?

 

[TnRobin]

I believe it is anywhere between $450 and $600

 

[stacy6552]

we figured that after closing costs and left point dues costs we werent paying that much more for SSR. The extra money was worth it when we considered the hassle of buying resale and the long term value of it vs the other resorts........

 

[michaeln]

$70 (resale value per point) / 40 (years) = $1.75 (point cost per year)

$1.75 (point cost per year) * 50 (years) = $87.50 (new value per point at SSR)

I am not sure exactly how many years are left on the old contracts and how many their are exactly on the SSR contracts so these figures may be a little off.

Or, actually I think they said the new points after the discount is over will be $89 per point.

So I actually did that backwords. To figure out a fair resale value we should do this:

$89 (value of new SSR point) / 50 (years) = $1.78 (point cost per year)

$1.78 (point cost per year) * 40 (years) = $71.20 (resale point cost)

 

[tjkraz]

Originally posted by michaeln
$1.78 (point cost per year) * 40 (years) = $71.20 (resale point cost)

If you use 2004 as the basis for your analysis, SSR has 50 years remaining while the others only have 38 years. Therefore your "resale point cost" would go down further to $67.64.

I can think of a few other reasons for not going resale. Admittedly some of them are a bit of a reach, but may play into a decision.

1. DVC financing is very competetive when compared to other timeshares. Home Equity is still the best route to go, but for some that is not an option.

2. The purchase process couldn't be simpler with DVC. With a single phone call (and 10% deposit over the phone), an individual is basically considered a member. The membership packet is very well designed. It contains everything you need to know about DVC, and every document you need to sign in order to become a member. Sign the forms. Put them in the postage-paid envelope. You're done!

With a resale you are negotiating with another individual. You have all of the same pitfalls you might envision as when buying a house, including the possibility that the seller may pull out at the last minute. The resale also has to pass through Right of First Refusal, so much wasted time can be all you have to show for a resale purchase attempt.

3. Most of the lower-priced resales are stressed, with points borrowed against a future Use Year. You could buy a resale and not be able to use it for 1 or 2 years if current and next year's points are already used.

4. Closing costs.

Unless the 12 extra years at SSR push you in that direction, the best advice is always to buy where you want to stay. With the 11 month reservation window at your Home resort, you'll never have trouble booking a trip at that resort. If you buy VWL resale, you may never be able to book an OKW grand villa or a standard view room at BWV. Decide which resort would leave you satiisfied if you had to stay there EVERY TIME you went to WDW, and put your money there.

 

[michaeln]

Thank you for the adjustment.

I wasn't sure how many years the other contracts have left as we bought into SSR. The extra 12 years was good enough for me and the spa didn't hurt Sabrina's feelings any.

 

[CaptainMidnight]

why,why,why...

...don't people use more descriptive phrases in thier post subjects to let readers know what the thread is about....

 

[Deemarch]

We did it! We have to visit the notary and will be sending our paperwork back for our SSR purchase...First time DVC owners! We are so excited...My grown daughter (mommy to our Kayla, would she be DGD - dear granddaughter?) calls us the big kids! haha

I have gotten so much great info from all of you on these boards. There are none like this! I am also trying to "connect" with other boards re:cruise to Bermuda (Bummer, Disney doesn't go) and I have gotten nowhere!

So again thanks to all of you! I am a convert!!! And I'll stay here.

 

[mydogdrew]

I guess I disagree. I bet that SSR resales sell for the same as OKW once they are available (there are going to be so many of them!). It's a great sales tool to offer the extra 12 years but think about it. How much would you pay today for a cash reservation 50 years from now? Discounted cash flow would indicate you might value points 50 years from now at 10% of their current value (I'd pay ~ $100 today for a room that will be worth $1000 in 50 years). I you follow this then you'll conclude that the extra years are not worth much today. You will start to see that change as you get inside of 20 years remaining on the original sites. If i'm wrong then SSR resales will always sell for more than the others. I think that SSR will soon sell at a resale discount to Disney retail (ROFR will limit this somewhat but there won't be a waiting list for some time). The SSR 12 year xtra value will follow but not for many years.

 

[KANSAS]

mydogdrew

I agree with everytjomh in your post. I even believe that SSR will be less than OKW,when a bunch of resales on market.

because more SSR than OKW, in a few years on resale market
and even more important

190 pts grand villa at OKW, I think ,338 points for SSR GRAND VILLA
october /sunday-THURDAY NIGHt for both.

I know someone will post about hte extra 12 years, but 190 points for a grand villa at OKW vs 338 points for the same season and days of the week at SSR.
BIG DIFFERENCE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!imho

 

[tjkraz]

Grand Villa, October, Sunday to Thursday:

Old Key West: 190
Saratoga Springs: 355
Boardwalk Villas: 395

High Grand Villa point costs don't appear to be impacting resale prices at BWV...

 

[lovwdwalot]

I think you really have to look at buying at DVC like buying a new car vs. a used car, You pay a higher cost for a new car, but if you were to buy used for the same model you would pay less. same thing for the DVC

 

[KANSAS]

tjkraz

imho boardwalk is different than OLD KeY WEST and SSR&S

BOARDWALK, better location, than OKW AND SSR&S
BOARDWALK Fewer grand villas than OKW AND SSR&S

Most people think of SSR&S like OKW, when it comes to comparison
but just imho

 

[tjkraz]

Originally posted by KANSAS
Most people think of SSR&S like OKW, when it comes to comparison
but just imho

I agree that due to the proximity they will often be compared / contrasted. But you can't have a fair debate without factoring in the additional 12 years at SSR.

mydogdrew is probably right--the present value of the extra 12 years, which are 38 years down the road, is minimal.

But you know what? I wasn't a finance major in college. When we decided to buy SSR I didn't factor the time value of money or cost of opportunities lost into my equation. Frankly 12 years is 12 years. Whether we use the time while we are in our 70s or give it to our children and their families, you can bet that someone in this family will be enjoying SSR in 2050.

DW and I made an agreement to start with 150 points and see where the future takes us. With two young children, we can travel during the low seasons for the next 3-4 years. After that we may look into an add-on.

But back to my point. We got 50 years at SSR for $79 per point. To get 150 points at BWV, BCV or VWL, we would have paid about $71 per point in a resale. Add in $3 per point for closing costs and the price is up to $74 pp. That's a difference of $5 per point--$750 cash TOTAL--for the additional 12 years. That's a fair trade-off in my opinion.

Everyone has their own reasons for making the purchase decision they did. Frankly I think it's hard to fault the SSR price with the $10 discount (now gone). If we were talking about the $89 pp sticker price for SSR, my argument may be different.

 

[Dean]

There are so many variables it's impossible to truly know what will happen. I have my thoughts as well as others have their's. Overall, the biggest factor in price for the next 10-15 years will be whether DVC keeps building new resorsts, raising the retail price and propping up resales with the ROFR.

Those factors will not however affect individual resorts nearly as much as the collective price. I too expect SSR to come back to the pack with resales. What will likely happen is that the listings will be higher because the owners would have paid more up front. The actual sales prices will likely be in line with the rest for those that do sell. I doubt SSR will ever be cheaper overall than OKW but I also don't think it will hold much of an edge on sales price in the long run. They should both come to the middle since OKW will be cheaper dues and require less points but SSR will have a longer life. The other current on site resorts will end up fetching higher prices due to the location and the idea that it looks like no more high profile resorts. BWV will win in the end due to the BW view and standard rate issues.

As with most timeshare resales, the listing prices will usually be reflective of what one paid. Many will never sell since they may be price too high. When I see terms like "no reasonable offer refused", "just want to get my money back" or "below retail price" associated with a timeshare resale, I simply cringe and move on. I know that the person is unlikely to be realistic about selling and will likely waste my time and theirs. With DVC though, these issues actually work out to the seller advantage, at least they have so far.

 

[KANSAS]

tjkraz
I want to make it clear, your points are very good. I agree with your 12 year extra point on ssr&S

But are you really only paying a little more for those extra 12 years
at SSR&S.

People flame me, for making this point.
BUt the extra 20 cents per point in annual dues, over the next 50 years, will cost you $10.00 per point, now you are paying $89. per point, not $79. per point, for those SSR&S points

If it takes 86% more SSR&S points, to get a grand villa in october, sunday-THURSDAY, over the exact same month and sunday-Thursday for a grand villa at Old Key West, doesn't it take 86% more SSR&S points, for the exact same SSR&S reservation, to equal an oKW reservation.

I hope you are offended by these points, because I considered your points, very good. I just look at things from a financial point, that I am not sure, others do??

 

[tjkraz]

KANSAS,

Not offended at all.

The reason I hadn't specifically addressed the Grand Villa issue is that we don't envision having a need for that class of room for a long time. Frankly we don't have the points for it, even at OKW.

But even setting aside the GVs, you are correct in that the points for OKW are 20-30% higher than SSR across the board. Not as high as the other on-site properties, but still higher than SSR.

This is a conceit, but the reason that it wasn't a big issue for us is that we know OKW will (almost) always be available as a fall-back resort if we are running short of points or just want the larger accommodations. That won't save us anything on the annual dues, but it levels the playing field in terms of the point cost issue.

We rented twice at OKW--both times on short notice--and would have been just as happy with that resort as our home. We would have bought OKW if we had gone the resale route.

But the promotions on SSR were too good to pass up. Now that the promotional pricing for SSR has been cut in half, I suspect the debate may even be moot. We're probably back to the point where the overall best advice is "buy where you want to stay."

I suspect it will take quite some time before we know the answers to questions like: Will the OKW dues always be lower than SSR, and what will the resale market look like?