Why the Extra Car Length

[_19disnA]

Roundabouts are still troublesome for about 40% of the drivers...in part, that as younger healthy driver they never saw their folks use a roundabout, now as seniors in Yuma, AZ they have a hard time understanding the concept of the technique of roundabouts .

Roundabouts/traffic circles are great in theory to eliminate head on collisions, but replace those with being side-swiped. I think they are a dreadful solution in busy intersections. When there is always traffic coming from the left, virtually the only way to pull out is to dive in front of someone where there is a tiny bit of open space. Overly aggressive drivers also act like THEY have the right of way and you just never know who they are until it is too late. Some of the multi-lane traffic circles also cause a huge number of accidents and I will drive a different route just to avoid them. I know of some that caused so many more accidents, the city has already modified them.

Think they are fine for rural areas or intersections with very little traffic, but the wrong solution in busy areas.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Roundabouts/traffic circles are great in theory to eliminate head on collisions, but replace those with being side-swiped. I think they are a dreadful solution in busy intersections. When there is always traffic coming from the left, virtually the only way to pull out is to dive in front of someone where there is a tiny bit of open space. Overly aggressive drivers also act like THEY have the right of way and you just never know who they are until it is too late. Some of the multi-lane traffic circles also cause a huge number of accidents and I will drive a different route just to avoid them. I know of some that caused so many more accidents, the city has already modified them.

Think they are fine for rural areas or intersections with very little traffic, but the wrong solution in busy areas.

The main problem I see with the roundabouts in my area with more than 1 lane is drivers most especially trucks don't observe the lane markings when going through the curve. That has nothing to do with amount of traffic and everything to do with the driver. The other issue is drivers who stop in the middle,very dangerous, but they don't realize that cars yield to them as they are already in the circle. My mom hates roundabouts and is always nervous around them using them only in the last few years for the most part. I've been surrounded by them it seems for 15 years or so because they've shown up everywhere. In my neighborhood a master plan lists them widening the road to 2 lanes in both directions on the main road to get in and installing 2 roundabouts (one at the bottom of the hill the other at the top). Not jumping for joy on that one if it ever comes to happen.

 

[georgina]

As a driver of a manual transmission car, if I stop behind someone at a light I usually shift into neutral and take my foot off the clutch. If the car in front of me then moves up before the light changes, I don't move until it does.

I have heard the car jacking reason before. Car jackings in DC are way up this year.

Someone mentioned flashing yellow arrows. They just put one of those in where I used to live, I don't think a lot of people know how to act in that situation since it is so new.

Around here if you do that, you will most definitely get into a T-bone accident sooner rather than later. Multiple cars in the oncoming straight lanes will run the light so either you wait many seconds after the light turns red to ensure people actually stop (while also holding up everyone else with a green light) or you wait until you know it is clear before initiating a turn.

I'm one who waits, but I've had cars honk behind me wanting me to turn in front of other cars. Two girls died in the exact scenario I described last month, they thought a semi was going to stop so turned on red when the semi did not stop. It's worth it to wait the extra minute.

And sometimes the light for the other side does not actually turn red at the same time, especially if there is a left turn arrow for traffic going that way that may come on after my side turns red. i am wary of unfamiliar intersections for this reason. And I just moved to a new city so everything is unfamiliar.

 

[KellyKane]

I stop just far enough behind the car in front of me to be able to get around/out if needed in emergency. I also leave room in the winter, when it is snowing heavily or there is ice on the road. A full 1-2 car lengths is pretty far though imo, that would annoy me.

 

[Shadeaux]

People are nuts in recent years in how they deal with making left turns. I have been behind people who do not pull out into the intersection, perpendicular to the lane they are turning in to, and wait for a traffic clearing to turn. They wait behind to white line at the intersection. And then, to top it off, when the light turns red, they stay there. I can't imagine where they learned how to drive. If they pull up properly and wait, they, plus 2 more cars, can make their left turns, even after the light turning red.

They do this because in many states it is illegal to pull out into the intersection waiting to make a left turn. My husband found this out many years ago when we moved to Louisiana from the Chicago area. He got a ticket for doing what you mentioned.

 

[DisneyHardin]

I stop just far enough behind the car in front of me to be able to get around/out if needed in emergency. I also leave room in the winter, when it is snowing heavily or there is ice on the road. A full 1-2 car lengths is pretty far though imo, that would annoy me.

I totally agree. 1-2 car lengths at an intersection is going to totally throw off the timing of the whole intersection.

 

[tvguy]

DS was told to do it in Driver's Ed class. The reasoning is indeed to prevent chain-reaction collisions.

I should probably also mention that decades ago I was advised by a cop friend in New Orleans to do it anytime that I was driving alone at night or in an iffy neighborhood, as a defense against carjacking, as at that time there was a rash of incidents where the thieves had used 2 other cars to box in the victim at a stoplight.

Yup. ALWAYS leave an escape route.

 

[tvguy]

I once got out of my car and walked up to the lady driver in front of me and told her if she did not pull up to the line the sensor would not trip and the light would stay red all day. She moved up and the light turned green in a short while.

Depends on where your city puts the sensors. Here they are about 5 car lengths back from the crosswalk, BUT only in the unincorporated areas. In the city limits traffic lights are all on timers, no sensors. Nobody coming the other direction, you still have to wait about 90 seconds for the timer to change the light.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

In the city limits traffic lights are all on timers, no sensors. Nobody coming the other direction, you still have to wait about 90 seconds for the timer to change the light.

Ours seems to be a mixture depending on the intersection in its location. A lane coming from a lesser traveled road to a highly traveled road is more going to be on a sensor for instance because a timer in most cases won't be appropriate to continuously halt traffic flow for the lower traffic flow lane.

In recent years there's been a big push in my area to reduce the amount of time drivers are sitting at stop lights because it adds to congestion and overall time. What they will do for timed intersections is if you report to the city about an intersection's lights that appears to be off for the conditions of the intersection they will go out and do a study for it. In some cases they've increased the timing for a green light for example or decreased the time someone is sitting at a red light or increased the amount of time a light is yellow.

And intersections that have been redesigned typically need tweaking because traffic flow in design does not always translate well to traffic flow IRL. The first continuous flow intersection (which is similar in function for left turning of a diverging diamond) in my state is right by me and they had a ton of complaints when it first opened that the light timing was not appropriate for the traffic flow. A few adjustments later and it's working out. Apparently this continuous flow intersection is supposed to reduce wait times anywhere between 44-60% depending on the time of day. A year or two ago my city in their news letter they send to everyone had a slight admonishment for drivers not paying attention enough at a light to go when they can citing how much time it adds to driver's commutes just by not going quickly enough when the light is green (or a green arrow), not utilizing flashing yellow, even with a solid yellow arrow not paying attention when traffic is cleared, etc. That might be a reason why staying 2 car lengths back seems excessive to me as in my area that would just cause so much more havoc if every car did that. No one would get anywhere and driver frustration (and increase in road rage and chance for accidents increase) would increase in an area where the opposite is the case where they are trying to reduce commute time. And you always should be paying attention to your surroundings no matter what.

 

[tvguy]

Ours seems to be a mixture depending on the intersection in its location. A lane coming from a lesser traveled road to a highly traveled road is more going to be on a sensor for instance because a timer in most cases won't be appropriate to continuously halt traffic flow for the lower traffic flow lane.

In recent years there's been a big push in my area to reduce the amount of time drivers are sitting at stop lights because it adds to congestion and overall time. What they will do for timed intersections is if you report to the city about an intersection's lights that appears to be off for the conditions of the intersection they will go out and do a study for it. In some cases they've increased the timing for a green light for example or decreased the time someone is sitting at a red light or increased the amount of time a light is yellow.

And intersections that have been redesigned typically need tweaking because traffic flow in design does not always translate well to traffic flow IRL. The first continuous flow intersection (which is similar in function for left turning of a diverging diamond) in my state is right by me and they had a ton of complaints when it first opened that the light timing was not appropriate for the traffic flow. A few adjustments later and it's working out. Apparently this continuous flow intersection is supposed to reduce wait times anywhere between 44-60% depending on the time of day. A year or two ago my city in their news letter they send to everyone had a slight admonishment for drivers not paying attention enough at a light to go when they can citing how much time it adds to driver's commutes just by not going quickly enough when the light is green (or a green arrow), not utilizing flashing yellow, even with a solid yellow arrow not paying attention when traffic is cleared, etc. That might be a reason why staying 2 car lengths back seems excessive to me as in my area that would just cause so much more havoc if every car did that. No one would get anywhere and driver frustration (and increase in road rage and chance for accidents increase) would increase in an area where the opposite is the case where they are trying to reduce commute time. And you always should be paying attention to your surroundings no matter what.

Yes, they have done the exact opposite in the City of Sacramento under the heading of "traffic calming". They have turned one way streets into two way streets, put in round abouts, and stop signs. They have even closed off some streets so you have to go around the closure. Very frustrating. Their goal, to keep cars at 22 mph or less going through the city.

 

[tvguy]

Ours seems to be a mixture depending on the intersection in its location. A lane coming from a lesser traveled road to a highly traveled road is more going to be on a sensor for instance because a timer in most cases won't be appropriate to continuously halt traffic flow for the lower traffic flow lane.

In recent years there's been a big push in my area to reduce the amount of time drivers are sitting at stop lights because it adds to congestion and overall time. What they will do for timed intersections is if you report to the city about an intersection's lights that appears to be off for the conditions of the intersection they will go out and do a study for it. In some cases they've increased the timing for a green light for example or decreased the time someone is sitting at a red light or increased the amount of time a light is yellow.

And intersections that have been redesigned typically need tweaking because traffic flow in design does not always translate well to traffic flow IRL. The first continuous flow intersection (which is similar in function for left turning of a diverging diamond) in my state is right by me and they had a ton of complaints when it first opened that the light timing was not appropriate for the traffic flow. A few adjustments later and it's working out. Apparently this continuous flow intersection is supposed to reduce wait times anywhere between 44-60% depending on the time of day. A year or two ago my city in their news letter they send to everyone had a slight admonishment for drivers not paying attention enough at a light to go when they can citing how much time it adds to driver's commutes just by not going quickly enough when the light is green (or a green arrow), not utilizing flashing yellow, even with a solid yellow arrow not paying attention when traffic is cleared, etc. That might be a reason why staying 2 car lengths back seems excessive to me as in my area that would just cause so much more havoc if every car did that. No one would get anywhere and driver frustration (and increase in road rage and chance for accidents increase) would increase in an area where the opposite is the case where they are trying to reduce commute time. And you always should be paying attention to your surroundings no matter what.

I hope this link works. This is what they have done on streets that historically have been East-West routes into and out of town. They put a barrier in, but leave openings for bikes to get through. https://www.google.com/maps/place/D+St+&+13th+St,+Sacramento,+CA+95814/@38.5854213,-121.4851352,3a,90y,119.36h,62.07t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sFwnn6osF56DZJtLYSHC-Xg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!4m5!3m4!1s0x809ad0d497518803:0x7582032fc465ef93!8m2!3d38.585743!4d-121.4863714

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Yes, they have done the exact opposite in the City of Sacramento under the heading of "traffic calming". They have turned one way streets into two way streets, put in round abouts, and stop signs. They have even closed off some streets so you have to go around the closure. Very frustrating. Their goal, to keep cars at 22 mph or less going through the city.

That does sound frustrating.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I hope this link works. This is what they have done on streets that historically have been East-West routes into and out of town. They but a barrier in, but leave openings for bikes to get through. https://www.google.com/maps/place/D+St+&+13th+St,+Sacramento,+CA+95814/@38.5854213,-121.4851352,3a,90y,119.36h,62.07t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sFwnn6osF56DZJtLYSHC-Xg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!4m5!3m4!1s0x809ad0d497518803:0x7582032fc465ef93!8m2!3d38.585743!4d-121.4863714

Ah yeah that does not look like fun for drivers trying to get in and out quickly enough but I suppose nice of them to at least consider the bicyclists from having to go up and around though that's probably just as much to keep cyclists from congesting the roads too much lol.

 

[GoingSince1990]

People are nuts in recent years in how they deal with making left turns. I have been behind people who do not pull out into the intersection, perpendicular to the lane they are turning in to, and wait for a traffic clearing to turn. They wait behind to white line at the intersection. And then, to top it off, when the light turns red, they stay there. I can't imagine where they learned how to drive. If they pull up properly and wait, they, plus 2 more cars, can make their left turns, even after the light turning red.

Yep, that is a pet peeve of mine. When the light turns green, pull into the intersection, wait for a gap to make the turn, or until the light turns red and then you should be able to make the left. If traffic is busy and someone waits behind the line until there is a gap, and refuses to make the turn if the light turns red, they could be stuck there all day.

 

[tvguy]

Ah yeah that does not look like fun for drivers trying to get in and out quickly enough but I suppose nice of them to at least consider the bicyclists from having to go up and around though that's probably just as much to keep cyclists from congesting the roads too much lol.

They have bent over backwards for bike riders because there have been so many accidents involving them. In some areas they even moved car parking from the curb, into the road, with a bike lane between the parked cars and the curb. Unfortunately the stats show most accidents involving bikes in the area are cause by the bike riders not following traffic laws. https://www.sacbee.com/news/local/transportation/article177074531.html

 

[NotUrsula]

Are there flashing yellow signals there?

Here if you have flashing yellow you are supposed to get into the intersection so long as you can safely do so. There's an intersection near me where in high traffic times you won't have enough time to get through the light even with that flashing yellow before it turns solid yellow then red but all the other times you can and by the traffic signal rules should. Flashing yellow is also quite common in my area and many signals have had that added.

IME, the only time you get a flashing yellow in Louisiana is at a cautioned intersection, where both directions get the same signal, and red is pretty much turned off. You tend to find those more in rural areas. I don't live there any more, so that may have changed, but I can guarantee you that they haven't changed the rule about stopping in the middle of an intersection. That has always been a hard no. ((I suspect that part of the reason has to do with the prevalence of large raised neutral grounds (what the rest of y'all call medians) on so many major city avenues; you would end up with 3-4 cars sitting in the intersection there if you allowed it.))

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

IME, the only time you get a flashing yellow in Louisiana is at a cautioned intersection, where both directions get the same signal, and red is pretty much turned off. You tend to find those more in rural areas. I don't live there any more, so that may have changed,

I think I should clarify I was meaning flashing yellow arrow which I realize now my earlier comments could have been confused for talking about just flashing yellow solid light that would be used for going straight.

I was meaning left turn arrow signal that is now a flashing yellow arrow as the conversation was about people getting into the intersection to turn left. Oops I hope that didn't confuse the conversation much With the flashing yellow arrow signal it basically allows traffic to flow more as drivers can turn left when it's clear to do so rather than only allowing so many cars and then the signal going to solid red arrow and having to wait again for the cycle to get to a green arrow again. Because of that drivers are supposed to enter the intersection if they can safely do so although normal yield rules still apply both to vehicles and pedestrians. The flashing yellow arrow will then turn to solid yellow indicating you need to make your turn as the light will be soon changing to red arrow and at that point you really shouldn't be just entering the intersection if you hadn't already.

 

[tvguy]

Roundabouts/traffic circles are great in theory to eliminate head on collisions, but replace those with being side-swiped. I think they are a dreadful solution in busy intersections. When there is always traffic coming from the left, virtually the only way to pull out is to dive in front of someone where there is a tiny bit of open space. Overly aggressive drivers also act like THEY have the right of way and you just never know who they are until it is too late. Some of the multi-lane traffic circles also cause a huge number of accidents and I will drive a different route just to avoid them. I know of some that caused so many more accidents, the city has already modified them.

Think they are fine for rural areas or intersections with very little traffic, but the wrong solution in busy areas.

They only put them in at busy intersections here to "calm" traffic. My first experience with roundabouts was in Mexico in 1975....and there they did NOTHING to slow traffic and were only in busy intersections.

 

[freetrial]

I was taught to do that from someone who drove in NYC years ago. 2 reasons... to be able to pull forward a bit if a 'bum' or window washer walked up to your car; or to actually be able to pull out if you felt threatened and not be boxed in by the car in front of you.

 

[DisneyHardin]

I was taught to do that from someone who drove in NYC years ago. 2 reasons... to be able to pull forward a bit if a 'bum' or window washer walked up to your car; or to actually be able to pull out if you felt threatened and not be boxed in by the car in front of you.

There is a big difference between leaving enough room to pull up a bit and leaving a full car length. I think leaving 2-3 feet seems perfectly acceptable, but leaving 1-2 car lengths is way too much (that would be approximately 10-30 feet depending on the vehicle.)