Why so many SSR resales?

[BWV Dreamin]

While these threads only represent a small sampling of the DVC community, for data gathering purposes, it does do well to represent a somewhat accurate reflection. The fact the we already have a poster who has said they sold based on the unavailabilty of ressies at 7 mos. gives some credence to the opinions stated here. I think if there were a larger sampling, we would be amazed at the results.

 

[TisBit]

While these threads only represent a small sampling of the DVC community, for data gathering purposes, it does do well to represent a somewhat accurate reflection. The fact the we already have a poster who has said they sold based on the unavailabilty of ressies at 7 mos. gives some credence to the opinions stated here. I think if there were a larger sampling, we would be amazed at the results.

Actually, if it is the same person I am thinking of, they never actually owned, but did the paperwork and canceled after reading these threads. Now, he will go around and say that there is "no availability" and skew that same demographic. Many people will talk about the time they couldn't get a ressie two years ago during peak DVC season, but normally not have a problem.

I will be the first to admit, I am not a person to base my experiences on. I couldn't get HHI in May (but didn't waitlist or try really hard), but from reading the boards I have seen very mixed reviews on it. Plus, more DIS'ers vacation a certain way and are usually very consertative with their points, so they wouldn't take anything but value rooms....or feel that a Preferred view is a "waste".

I guess my point is that the DIS boards are full of (or proportionally higher in) "experts" on DVC and that is not the normal owner, so it is skewed. JMO

 

[BWV Dreamin]

Just sold our SSR position in January and closed, got a very fair price and used it 3 times in as many years and sold it for what we paid for it. Financially, a good deal. Why did I sell?

Because I was mislead into believeing I'd be able to book at the smaller resorts -- which simply ain't true, unless it is a time of year we simply cannot go without taking the kids out of school. "Buy where you want to stay" is great advice -- but we didn't know that when we bought. We are gonna hope the DVC market softens in the next year or so (I don't believe this is a financially good deal at anything over $83-85 point) and buy back in "where we want to stay" . . . or at least don't mind staying if we can't sample other locales. We just never warmed to SSR. It is an resort designed by accountants, not imagineers. AKV may follow in its footsteps -- jury is out.

Tisbit, here is the poster that owned, then sold based on one aspect that has been discussed in this thread.

 

[SSRFred]

While these threads only represent a small sampling of the DVC community, for data gathering purposes, it does do well to represent a somewhat accurate reflection. The fact the we already have a poster who has said they sold based on the unavailabilty of ressies at 7 mos. gives some credence to the opinions stated here. I think if there were a larger sampling, we would be amazed at the results.

Wait, are you saying that with the ten's of thousands of floating points contracts, I may not be able to book where I want, when I want ?!!? Is that what that 11 month home resort thing is for? I knew I should have bought that place on Rt 192 that was worth 53,000 RCI points per year. Just think of all of the 7,500 point weeks I could have enjoyed in Hawaii that the salesman told me about....

But seriously, there is a difference between "you can" and "you will always be able to" book where and when at 7 months. I don't think the sampling will be much different from other similar purchases. I feel bad for the people who were misinformed and uninformed before such a substantial financial commitment. Although DVC is good, it is still a timeshare.

As the saying goes, let the buyer beware. Or is it what P.T. Barnum said...

 

[Aunt Michelle]

Wait, are you saying that with the ten's of thousands of floating points contracts, I may not be able to book where I want, when I want ?!!? Is that what that 11 month home resort thing is for? I knew I should have bought that place on Rt 192 that was worth 53,000 RCI points per year. Just think of all of the 7,500 point weeks I could have enjoyed in Hawaii that the salesman told me about....

But seriously, there is a difference between "you can" and "you will always be able to" book where and when at 7 months. I don't think the sampling will be much different from other similar purchases. I feel bad for the people who were misinformed and uninformed before such a substantial financial commitment. Although DVC is good, it is still a timeshare.

As the saying goes, let the buyer beware. Or is it what P.T. Barnum said...

Exactly. I LOVE my guide, he's great - attentive, responsive, etc. However, I never overlook the fact that he is a salesman.

 

[snowbunny]

It wasn't until SSR started being sold that the quantity of onsite DVC resort you could stay at really started becoming a selling point

That's true, and although one poster reported that their guide was very clear that is subject to availability, when my parents bought BWV two years ago direct from Disney, there was a pretty hard push toward SSR instead of finding them BWV points. The exact quote I remember was, "You never have to stay there (SSR)."

 

[TisBit]

Tisbit, here is the poster that owned, then sold based on one aspect that has been discussed in this thread.

Thanks I thought you were referring to this one...

I certainly was. After getting the real story here from many DVC old timers we did not sign our SSR papers when they came in the mail, talked to management to get assigned to a new guide who would not lie to make a sale and purchased points for a different resort.

Most guides are honest but do not fool yourself that there are no bad ones who would say whatever it takes to make a sale.

 

[Aunt Michelle]

That's true, and although one poster reported that their guide was very clear that is subject to availability, when my parents bought BWV two years ago direct from Disney, there was a pretty hard push toward SSR instead of finding them BWV points. The exact quote I remember was, "You never have to stay there (SSR)."

Technically, I suppose that statement is true. You don't. However, that is quite a bit different from someone saying you can get exactly the room you want, at the resort you want, any and every time.

 

[disneynutz]

When we first bought, availability didn't seem to be a problem. We noticed a change when DVD started giving away developer points. With all of the recent sales growth, there are a ton of developer points to use or rent.

Families that would normally visit every 2 years need to take a extra vacation just to use their developer points.

It doesn't look like DVD is going to do away with developer points anytime soon. It think the problem will be getting worse as additional proprieties are built.

Good for Disney. Bad for us owners.

 

[White_Sox_Fan]

Wait, are you saying that with the ten's of thousands of floating points contracts, I may not be able to book where I want, when I want ?!!?

If it were only "tens of thousand" we could all get anything we wanted, anytime we wanted. The SSR POS states that the total points sold for 14 buildings is 10,207,596. Add the same per bldg amount for the additional 4 buildings and it becomes 13,124,052 for SSR alone. Let's see at $96pp that only $1.25 Billion (with a B).

 

[disneynutz]

The resales are that low because of the economy, no one is particularly looking to buy a timeshare right now.

All the resale prices are down right now. Even BCV which I do remember seeing in the mid 90's are down to the upper 80's. BWV are down around SSR level, a couple dollars more, low 80's and they were mid to upper 80's.

All of them are down right now.

Sounds like my 401K.

 

[crisi]

Tisbit, here is the poster that owned, then sold based on one aspect that has been discussed in this thread.

MissMet bought SSR and has been unhappy by the availability for BWVs. She was thinking about selling SSR and buying BWVs or doing a BWV add on.

There have been others as well, some have sold, some have just voiced unhappiness.

In the end, happiness depends on your expectations and how flexible you are. There are plenty of people who are happy staying anywhere on property, and if this trip they can stay at VWL, that would be cool. Get BCV for Food and Wine - thrilled, but happy if we are at OKW. There are other people who set their hearts on a certain resort at a certain time of year - and often that is the same place and time a lot of people find desireable.

 

[SSRFred]

If it were only "tens of thousand" we could all get anything we wanted, anytime we wanted. The SSR POS states that the total points sold for 14 buildings is 10,207,596. Add the same per bldg amount for the additional 4 buildings and it becomes 13,124,052 for SSR alone. Let's see at $96pp that only $1.25 Billion (with a B).

Even though I don't know the exact number of contracts, I doubt there are materially more that 100,000 contracts in all of DVC currently.

 

[tjkraz]

If it were only "tens of thousand" we could all get anything we wanted, anytime we wanted. The SSR POS states that the total points sold for 14 buildings is 10,207,596. Add the same per bldg amount for the additional 4 buildings and it becomes 13,124,052 for SSR alone. Let's see at $96pp that only $1.25 Billion (with a B).

The number of rooms available is always relative to the number of points in circulation. So the number of members / contracts / points isn't particularly meaningful.

Nevertheless, there are well over 100,000 DVC member families (probably over 110,000 by now) with many more individual contracts in existence when you count each add-on separately.

EDIT: I do agree with SSRFred's logic, though--certain times are more popular than others and there will never be enough supply for people to get what they want, where they want. (DVC isn't helping here since the points charts have slipped seriously out of whack--early December just should not be the cheapest season of the year.) Regardless of how many resorts there are and how well-liked they might be, there are times when there will not be sufficient inventory to book.

 

[culli]

I'm new and have already made 2 reservations and moved one of them. Taking 1st trip with just the wife 2/25 and can't wait. I found MS to be very friendly (a little under informed but nice) easy to contact. This is a timeshare and in my mind a fairly flexible one as many timeshares go. I went into this so against it as I view timeshares as a big scam. To be honest I'm a little embarrassed to say I own because of my negative timeshare attitude. I researched every thread or piece of anything I could, and ran my own numbers for MY situation. For MY SITUATION it worked out well, and to tell the truth I'm waiting for the "DUH you dummy, you forgot about this moment" to hit me. I doubted everything my sales guy told me, then followed up on it, pushed him on everything he said (I actually felt sorry for him). He never changed his story and seemed very honest and up front, he seemed to bend over backwards for me (Amil Arroyo fyi). The more I read these posts the more I believe I made the right choice. He offered us other resorts to buy when I asked but we went with SSR as the incentives were good among a few other reasons. I know we can stay at other resorts, which would be nice but if I only stay at SSR I'm good with that. 80/20 rule here but people have to take responsibility and not count on what the sales guy says, you have to do your own research know that YOU MADE the decision and it is right for you not someone else. If not in writing well guess what................If you don't do this, well I really don't feel sorry for you. From what I can see the people who really took a leap a faith was the first OKW owners, not much history for them to research etc.

Ok thanks for letting me vent and I hope for my own selfishness that I don't have that DUH you dummy moment, but if I do I have only myself to blame. Sooooo let the beat down begin

 

[White_Sox_Fan]

The number of rooms available is always relative to the number of points in circulation. So the number of members / contracts / points isn't particularly meaningful.

Nevertheless, there are well over 100,000 DVC member families (probably over 110,000 by now) with many more individual contracts in existence when you count each add-on separately.

EDIT: I do agree with SSRFred's logic, though--certain times are more popular than others and there will never be enough supply for people to get what they want, where they want. (DVC isn't helping here since the points charts have slipped seriously out of whack--early December just should not be the cheapest season of the year.) Regardless of how many resorts there are and how well-liked they might be, there are times when there will not be sufficient inventory to book.

True I was thinking point not contracts. Still the # of total points out there is staggering and if they are all trying to go during the peak times you can see where everyone will not be placated.

 

[Aunt Michelle]

True I was thinking point not contracts. Still the # of total points out there is staggering and if they are all trying to go during the peak times you can see where everyone will not be placated.

This might be a topic for another thread, but I was thinking about the number of points as WSF was referring to above. I was thinking (and I could be totally out of whack) that DVC must calculate the points based on full (or close to it) occupancy. Is that right? If I chose to only use my points Sunday - Thursday, and others do the same, what is the impact? If enough of us were paying cash for Friday and Saturday night stays to be economical about our points, wouldn't that have an impact?

 

[tjkraz]

This might be a topic for another thread, but I was thinking about the number of points as WSF was referring to above. I was thinking (and I could be totally out of whack) that DVC must calculate the points based on full (or close to it) occupancy. Is that right? If I chose to only use my points Sunday - Thursday, and others do the same, what is the impact? If enough of us were paying cash for Friday and Saturday night stays to be economical about our points, wouldn't that have an impact?

DVC is legally allowed to sell enough points that the each villa would be booked solid year round. Rumor has it they hold back about 4% of the points which are used to take rooms out of inventory for maintenance purposes. If my math is correct, selling 96% means that each guest room could be removed from inventory about two full weeks out of every year.

DVC really isn't much different than the traditional timeshare model where an individual would buy a fixed week. Under the traditional model, for each room the developer builds they would typically sell 50-51 weeks and hold back 1-2 weeks for maintenance. Each owner would have their own week to visit.

DVC is the same, it's just that everything has been translated to a more flexible commodity: points

What you describe in terms of weekday vs. weekend availability IS already occurring--it has been for years now. The weekend points are higher to somewhat discourage local owners (say, those within a 3 hour drive) from using the rooms primarily for long weekends stays. If all 7 nights of the week cost the same, the likely outcome would be that the weekends would get booked VERY quickly, and it would be difficult to get a full week's stay on shorter notice.

In theory the points charts should reflect demand. The disparity between weeknights and weekends should be such that most of the time, they both fill up at the same rate. The same is true for the different seasons--the slowest seasons should have the lowest points to encourage people to take trips. The highest demand periods should be the most expensive because they are likely to fill up regardless.

Whether the points charts really accomplish this goal is open to debate. To me, it seems like the weekends are priced a little too high. But the only remedy for lowering the Friday and Saturday night costs is to increase Sunday - Thursday. In many ways, it's a question of what people want vs. what would be best for the program. I doubt many want to see weekdays cost more or early-December moved to a more expensive season, but both moves could actually be in members' best interest.

In the end there are only so many rooms for each night. If people can't get what the want, they have a few choices. A few that come to mind are: bank the points, pick different nights to visit, let the points expire and go unused.

With periods like early December continuing to gain popularity and yet us seeing no change in the points, the most noticable end result has been people calling earlier and earlier to book. Those who miss out will just have to find some other way to use their points. And next year they will know to call sooner. Early-December just isn't going to get any better until DVC makes changes to the points.

 

[White_Sox_Fan]

This might be a topic for another thread, but I was thinking about the number of points as WSF was referring to above. I was thinking (and I could be totally out of whack) that DVC must calculate the points based on full (or close to it) occupancy. Is that right? If I chose to only use my points Sunday - Thursday, and others do the same, what is the impact? If enough of us were paying cash for Friday and Saturday night stays to be economical about our points, wouldn't that have an impact?

Just for the fun(?) of it I did figure how many total points are available to book every room for every night in SSR. The problem is that the total is variable depending on how many Studio/1BR are used as two bedrooms. Here are the results for 2008 (which does have an extra day BTW):

If all the non-dedicated 2BRs are split into Studios & 1BR, resulting the the highest possible total point requirements, the total is 14,193,096.

If all non-dedicated 2BRs were booked as 2BRs, resulting the the least possible total points requirements, the total is 13,167,900.

So somewhere between the two would be the actual usage. If you figure 50/50 studio/1BR to 2BR the total is 13,680,468. If my previous total point sales # is correct (13,124,052) that would mean 4% of the total points remains unsold (based on the 50/50 usage of the non-dedicated 2BRs).

I assume that extra points made available by more booking of the studio & 1BRs would be turned over to CRO for booking.

Isn't math fun.

 

[PinkTink63]

Sounds like my 401K.

I hear you! I just got my statement in the mail! I did have a feeling that it was going to do that, just not quite this soon!