Why so many Saratoga Resales?

Well, as stated before, I still think the dynamic duo is at work and I dont care what their new name is.

Cant everyone tell? They can only hold it together for a couple of days before the tandem posting begins.

Doc, I really empathize with what you have to put up with on a daily basis.
Where's a troll smilie when you need one?
 
Dis-best said:
I often wonder how many people who post are part of the DVC sales force.

You really need to stay at SSR to truly experience the resort.

As I mentioned in early postings this thread was not intended to bash SSR. The true intent is for those to offer their honest opinions from their experiences good or bad. It benefits no one to bash a resort but constructive criticism is always welcomed. I for one enjoy reading about everyones experiences good or bad.

Oh man, if that were only true, that would be like my dream job! I can assure you, unfortunately, I have no affilitation with Disney whatsoever. :) I don't even own at SSR so I have no dog in this fight other than as an interested party.

I also have no problem with people expressing their legitimate opinions. It's what makes the world go 'round and makes life interesting.

In general, I just find it tiring and irritating when expressing an opinion isn't enough and it turns into someone's personal crusade to convert others to their way of thinking...about anything.

You don't like SSR? Cool. You've stated that and I won't argue with it, since it's your opinion. Why is it so important though to try to convince others that their positive opinion of SSR, or any other resort, is wrong?
 
diznyfanatic said:
In general, I just find it tiring and irritating when expressing an opinion isn't enough and it turns into someone's personal crusade to convert others to their way of thinking...about anything.

You don't like SSR? Cool. You've stated that and I won't argue with it, since it's your opinion. Why is it so important though to try to convince others that their positive opinion of SSR, or any other resort, is wrong?

Again, as I mentioned earlier in other postings I welcome all comments both good or bad. The intent of this posting is for people to share their thoughts and experiences related to the thread. Some people may not agree with others and that is OK. Many people will have various view points and opinions. This only makes for intresting reading.
 

This thread has strayed far from the original topic of why there may be SSR resales. Further off topic posts will be deleted.
 
Your right Chuck. Sorry!

Getting back to the topic.
Maybe I am reading too much into the resales data.
When SSR first opened, does anyone know the original cost per point. I am assuming that these (resale people) are losing money selling at $81-$85 per point. This could be a wrong assumption. Maybe they are actually making money on their resale.
 
Dis-best said:
Your right Chuck. Sorry!

Getting back to the topic.
Maybe I am reading too much into the resales data.
When SSR first opened, does anyone know the original cost per point. I am assuming that these (resale people) are losing money selling at $81-$85 per point. This could be a wrong assumption. Maybe they are actually making money on their resale.

Every resale of whatever resort DVC was actively selling would lose money. DVC resale prices haven't surpassed or equalled the original sale price while that resort was still on the "new" market.
 
Since I am new to SSR and DVC, did you see this kind of (resale) activity at OKW.?Is this the norm for a new DVC resort?
 
There have always been resales at whatever DVC resort was being marketed by DVC, the exception probably would have been the very early years of DVC/OKW because initally sales were much, much slower (less people buying per day) than now. For instance, we purchased the end of May in 1992, the resort had been open since December 1991, and pre-opening sales had begun in October 1991. There were less than 2500 contracts on OKW when we bought...sales had been going on for 8 months. I'll bet SSR sells a lot more than 2500 contracts in 8 months, so there would also be more resales. As to whether the actual percentage is higher of new sales to resales....who knows, but I doubt it. The economy seems more unstable now, too, than in 1992.
 
Dis-best said:
...Maybe I am reading too much into the resales data.
When SSR first opened, does anyone know the original cost per point. I am assuming that these (resale people) are losing money selling at $81-$85 per point. This could be a wrong assumption. Maybe they are actually making money on their resale.

I don't think you even have any "resales data". You are basing your assumptions on the number of resales viewed on a single website on a given day- not over a long period of time and have no real information about the number that don't make it to the website , how long these have been listed, are they all current, original purchase price, etc. All of this is just anecdotal evidence based on a brief observation of an incomplete source.

Pre-Sales began for SSR in August, 2003. The "list" price was $89 per point- but with the incentive offered at that time, all new purchasers actually paid $10 less- $79 per point. Any of those buyers who are now selling at $81-85 are making a profit. Some of those buyers paid even less since CMs got an additional 15% discount.

OKW prices ranged from $48 (pre-construction) to $67 (for the second sell out). BWV ranged from $62.75 to $67. VWL started at $67 and sold out at $75. BCV started pre-sales at $75 and sold out at $84.

In all cases, incentives were offered- effectively lowering these prices. Some incentives were more meaningful that others- with some, members had to "give-back" their first year's points to get the discount (Magical Beginnings). Others got a $15 discount (VB and HH), early OKW buyers got free admission passes thru the end of 1999. There have been many permutations of these discount incentives offered to buyers for the resort(s) being actively sold at any given time. For a few years, there were even 4 resorts being sold at once (OKW, VB, HH and BWV). It wasn't until BCV that DVC returned to only one resort was being actively sold by the sales staff (and even then, other resorts could still be purchased). OKW was the lone "product" from fall, 1991 until VB opened in 1995. HH and BW both opened in 1996- adding to the strain on the sales system and diluting the sales product base with multiple options to present to potential buyers.

Since the free pass sales incentive ended in 1995, all DVC members could get a 10% discount on parkhopper passes (they have had a number of different names over the years). Once the free pass program ended on Dec 31, 1999- the 10% discount continued for all members until the new MYW pass (which has it's own discounts built into the pricing) was offered. At that time, DVC was able to negotiate the current AP discount (this is available to all members- not just for SSR purchases). There have been some incentives involving "free" MWY passes and APs for SSR purchases, but those are unrelated to the member discount on APs.

At this moment, SSR probably has the third greatest number of owners behind OKW and BWV and will likely pass BWV soon (if not already) and OKW in the next year or so. It is not at all surprising that there are a comparative number of resales available for that resort and that is consistent with all other resorts. We've seen resales listed within a few months of opening for each resort in the 8 years I've been part of this site.
 
WebmasterDoc said:
) ...BWV ranged from $62.75 to $67....

When the sales center closed, there were more points and we bought BWV direct from Disney, new BWV for $84, with Magical Beginnings we gave up our '03 points and paid $74.

Bobbi :)
 
Thank you Doc, for giving such a complete answer to the question. That is a great reference post, because it is based in FACT!


I know if I sold any of my SSR points at $80, I would not lose any money. Presales of SSR included giving up points, but since, the incentives have included current year points, which has allowed us some excellent vacations.

In total, we've spent over 2 months at SSR (actual days) on points in the last 2 years plus received 2 AP's (which I traded in to purchase 4-10 day MYW No Exp passes that we continue to use to this day!)

Bobbi, thank you for adding that caveat about BWV. I remember those points went quickly!
 
It is my belief that there are three DVC ownership patterns. Because resale prices hold, this is possible - unlike "traditional" timeshares:

Most DISboarders probably fit into the first. They are in it for the long haul. They will buy and hold for as long as they can.

The current SSR resales are people fitting into the second. They buy and sell quickly. Either they discover DVC really isn't a good fit for them, or they've bought points to "work the system" for a big family trip and now resell.

The third group buys short term. And I suspect its two patterns. One is "this is our vacation while the kids are little." Eventually, the kids are able to take different trips than Disney. We bought in 2002 when our kids were 3 and 4 - Disney was a dependable, easy vacation with little kids. They are now almost 7 and 8, and while we still enjoy Disney, this will be the last year of an annual Disney themed trip (we've been cruising) and next year will likely start a biannual cycle, where we take the kids on different types of vacations. The second is the "buy for retirement" cycle. But health concerns will sometimes limit travel after five + years (if you are lucky, you can travel a lot longer). I suspect VWL is hitting this part of its life - where the people who are original short term owners are now reselling. It did have particular appeal to people with little kids - proximity to the MK and well themed for little ones. BCV may not hold that pattern because of its premium resale value and that its has more appeal to people with a little older kids - people owning that may elect to hold.
 
LIFERBABE said:
...
Bobbi, thank you for adding that caveat about BWV. I remember those points went quickly!

We were so happy to get them! There were also some BCV and VB "new" points left at the time, but this purchase has really worked for us. The addition of VWL points later really has made our DVC custom made for our family. (And we have stayed at other homes and have enjoyed them tremendously.)

Bobbi :goodvibes
 
bobbiwoz said:
WebmasterDoc said:
) ...BWV ranged from $62.75 to $67....

When the sales center closed, there were more points and we bought BWV direct from Disney, new BWV for $84, with Magical Beginnings we gave up our '03 points and paid $74.

Bobbi :)

Thanks for that correction ! Yes, after the original sell out of BWV, more villas were added where the sales center has been and those points did sell at a higher price than the first sell out. I had lost track of the price for those points.

The same thing happened at OKW, as they also added three more buidlings where the original sales center (Commodoe House) had been situated. OKW sold out the second time about the same time that BWV sold out (for the 1st time) just before VWL opened.
 
:love: I am selling mine. Main reasons - free dining, and because I want my own vacation villa in Florida - a place of my own that I can furnish with Disney items til my hearts content
 
This is just my opinion, but maybe people bought sight unseen (we considered that for a couple of weeks). Then after seeing the size of the resort, they were not happy with their purchase. :confused3 I know for us, looking at a map of the resort and seeing the buildings in person was a shock. I know this sounds dumb, but SSR looked much smaller on paper. :blush: It may also be that DH and I mostly vacation at hotels, so the seperate buildings make it seem so much larger. I actually felt the same way about the POLY. That place seemed HUGE to me the first time I saw it! :)


It also could be that people realized that they could not afford the payments. We have a freind that just took a 33% pay cut at the pharmacuetical company where he works. He feels lucky to have his job. They are in the process of trying to sell a timeshare they impulse bought in Cancun with no luck. They now refer to it as the "money pit." At least ROFR keeps DVC members from losing too much of their initial purchase, which is a good thing!
 
Please remain on the topic for this thread. There have been too many unrelated tangents. Further off-topic posts will be removed - as some have already been removed.

Thanks. :)
 
seabright1 said:
Just to clarify... I just thought that maybe.....maybe....the poster was "FORCED" to edit the post. If that was the poster's own decision...so be it. I admire her honesty on that (edited) post. I don't want further explanation from the poster.

Oh my gosh...sorry. I just found these posts. I wiped out my post b/c I just started, for some unknown reason, to feel insecure about all the information that I gave out. A mental disorder on my part...who knows? :rolleyes: If my post was deleted it would have been totally removed and I would have been notified. I did it myself. Thinking no one read it at that point anyway?!?!??!??! Whoops.

Okay I'm wordy so here is the short version (oh I doubt it) of what I said. I suspect that there are so many stories behind each of these SSR resales. I suppose there are a few that simply decided that they did not make a good purchase. But irregardless I just felt that this thread, at the time of my posting, was becoming so black and white in its conclusions about selling SSR contracts.

So I thought I'd share my story. I am one of those sellers. I have one of my SSR contracts on the market right now. Do we dislike SSR? No. Am I making money to put in my bank account? No. In fact, I am taking a somewhat large loss in my total DVC points. Selling because I have a problem with SSR? No. I'm not selling my other SSR contract. Is is financially smart to sell one of my SSR contracts? Heck no!!!!!!!

Not smart at all. Fully emotional. We made the fatal mistake of staying in a one bedroom at BW in March. We have always loved the BW. But when we were blessed enough to have the money for DVC we knew who we were ....unorganized....fly by the seat of our pants...spontaneous girls...before seven months to book....forget it....three months is a stretch. So I was smart enough to not pay large buy ins and larger maintenance when I would never be organized enough for "home" windows. Plus, I liked SSR. I might have waited for the mystical VCR though....

So the BW stay.....loved it so much suddenly we are going to bust our butts to be organized once or every other year to stay at that place. That's what a stay at BW did to us. Changed us. So we are doing a small add-on at BW. In order to not go in debt, with commission and non-US residents federal taxes, we are sadly selling a SSR contract that has a lot more points. Being financially responsible is so draining! :rotfl2: Keeping the other because we like SSR....like OKW and both are usually available when others are not.

So my wordy point is "not every sale is as it appears to be". And the second point. My gut told me not to buy the second SSR contract. My brain said, "what is your problem gut... the F and F rate is terrific...get out of my way!!!". Always...always listen to your gut.

I'll try not to delete :stir:
 



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