Why so cheap

[lovingdisney]

Why are pts for Saratoga so cheap on the resale side? Also, with Vero and HH? While Beach and Board are expensive. Can't you use them to stay at any Disney DVC resorts. Can't you use HH pts to stay at Board?

On a side note do you think Disney made a mistake in building saratoga?

 

[tjkraz]

There are probably 2 appropriate answers:

1. Supply and demand. BCV is one of the smallest (and newest) resorts and its popularity with guests usually pushes resale prices into the $90s. BWV, VWL and SSR are usually in the mid-80s. SSR has the longer contract, but the other two are smaller and thus there are fewer points available. Finally you've got OKW, Vero and HHI selling in the $70s. Two are off-site resorts.

2. The second (and perhaps most influential) reason for any resale prices is "because that's where DVC wants the prices to be." DVC has Right of First Refusal on all resale transactions. As such, resale prices tend to settle a couple dollars higher than what DVC is typically spending to buy back the points. In other words, if history has shown that DVC will buy-back any resale offer on SSR points of roughly $82 per point, prices will run around $84-85 since buyers actually WANT to get the contract. When DVC starts paying more per point for a given resort, brokers and sellers will catch on quickly and adjust their pricing accordingly.

DVC points can be used at any resort for reservations inside of 7 months from the check-out date. However, you can book at your Home resort (the resort where you actually own the points) 11 to 8 months ahead of check-out.

If you buy points at a resort you don't intend to use, you'll always be trying to book on 7 months' notice or less. Sometimes that will work. Other times it will not. In my opinion, if you plan to use points at a Walt Disney World-based location, it makes sense to own points somewhere at WDW. That gives you the ability to confidently book a room as much as 11 months out, and then attempt to change to another resort at 7 months.

On a side note do you think Disney made a mistake in building saratoga?

Despite what some would have you believe, there are many people who adore SSR. Those who don't like it still have a 4-month booking priority at their choice of Home resort.

If all of the DVC resorts were carbon copies of one another, there wouldn't be much variety. As it is we've got 7 (soon to be 8) distinct destinations to choose from. Sounds like a good concept to me!!!

 

[mikeandkarla]

VB and HH have much higher annual dues which in the long run will cost you more out of pocket than paying a little more per point on your purchase. SSR is tricky. It seems to be the best financial way to go with the cheaper buy in per point and the lowest annual dues.

 

[dianeschlicht]

HH and VB are small and off-site....lower price/higher dues.
SSR and OKW are HUGE resorts, so lower price because of more availability.

 

[HockeyKat]

I think BCV tends to list higher because, being newer, the seller paid more for it originally and the break-even point is higher. BWV is slightly higher than OKW for the same reason, as well as demand.

VB/HHI are lower because they are non-WDW properties, dues are higher, and the possibility exists that a hurricane will wipe them out and raise the dues even higher.

Not sure why SSR is so low... probably to make it more desirable for a person to buy resale instead of direct, once you account for closing costs. I imagine that those sellers are losing a bit of $$ once they subtract commission.

Also, from what I hear, there are considerably more people on the WDW waiting list for BCV new sales and add-ons, and the $101 price/pt is higher than the $98 for BWV. I think that the "cost" of reselling the contract (how much they can sell it for, how long it will sit before someone buys it, etc.) is a large factor in what determines ROFR.

 

[pilferk]

Why are pts for Saratoga so cheap on the resale side?

Keep in mind, aside from the other reasons given in this thread, that SSR is STILL available, with NO wait, from Disney. And with their incentives (taking the price down to about $94 ppt for new members, and, I think, $91 pt for existing members + they're loaded contracts), if you want to sell them resale, you sorta have to beat Disney's price and "incentive".

For the "sold out" resorts, there is a premium (both at resale and at Disney) because there is no more inventory to be had from the developer....and since Disney doesn't offer any incentives (usually) on the sold outs, the prices can creep a bit higher via resale and still be below Disney's price, with the added attraction of being able to buy immediately.

 

[Dean]

Why are pts for Saratoga so cheap on the resale side? Also, with Vero and HH? While Beach and Board are expensive. Can't you use them to stay at any Disney DVC resorts. Can't you use HH pts to stay at Board?

On a side note do you think Disney made a mistake in building saratoga?

In general it's about location. The majority of people who buy in prefer to buy where they want to stay most. There are certainly other factors such as the number of contracts available and the price paid by the seller. Overall you can get a pretty good idea of the demand of a given resort by the price it brings resale. For a laugh, think if SSR were a 2042 resort where would the price be. What if there were no ROFR where would some of the prices be?

Mistake is a loaded word. SSR is what it is. It's a nice but large resort that is not nearly as high in demand as some of the other resorts, even for those that own there. It really only becomes an issue for those that are worried about the 7 month window, then it is a very LARGE issue.

 

[Granny]

Why are pts for Saratoga so cheap on the resale side? Also, with Vero and HH? While Beach and Board are expensive. Can't you use them to stay at any Disney DVC resorts. Can't you use HH pts to stay at Board?

I think others have answered this part of your question very well. Many reasons for resale pricing and I think many of the answers have very valid points.

On a side note do you think Disney made a mistake in building saratoga?

Absolutely not. They built their largest DVC resort ever, charged their highest price per point ever, and are selling it out in a faster period than most people (myself included) projected when they started selling. Oh, and they converted an otherwise failed venture (Disney Institute) into a money maker.

Where's Disney's mistake in that?

 

[Amy5000]

Oh, and they converted an otherwise failed venture (Disney Institute) into a money maker.

Can I ask: what's the history of the Disney Institute and how was it impacted by SSR?

 

[tjkraz]

Saratoga Springs WAS the Disney Institute until about 6 years ago.

The DI was (as I've heard it described) something of a pet project of Michael Eisner's. The concept was to combine a Disney vacation with a selection of adult educational opportunities. For instance, you could book a trip that included cooking lessons from a world-class chef. Or you could take art lessons or rock climbing lessons or dozens of other items to choose from. It really was an impressive roster of opportunities.

But the concept never really caught on. People didn't want to fly to Orlando and pay Disney's prices to learn to paint.

When tourism fell after 9/11 they closed the DI for good. Many of the common area buildings at SSR (the spa, Carriage House, etc.) were also part of the Disney Institute; they were simply refurbished to fit the new theme of the resort. The main pool area and all of the guest buildings are completely new construction.

Some remnant of the DI still exists. About halfway between Old Key West and Saratoga Springs are some buildings called Treehouse Villas. These buildings were part of the Disney Institute. The land they sit on is now classified as protected wetlands, meaning that Disney can't perform any new construction on the land. Disney COULD refurbish the existing structures and put them into service, but they would have to be brought up to meet current ADA guidelines which would be an expensive process. The buildings are octagonal multi-story dwellings each of which would house one family. To make the upper story wheelchair accessible would not be an easy task. Word is the buildings still in use as housing for folks participaing in the College Program.

 

[debloco]

HH and VB are small and off-site....lower price/higher dues.
SSR and OKW are HUGE resorts, so lower price because of more availability.

And I would add that BCV, BWV, and VWL are near or attached to full service resorts and have better proximity to the parks, which may also figure into why prices for those DVC resales are higher than the others.

 

[rantnnravin]

or, simply supply and demand...
a) SSR is still directly available through Disney

b) the other sold-out resorts are just that - "sold-out" - you wouldn't expect to pay face-value for tickets to to a "sold out" concert - would you?

c) many people who are selling SSR on the resale market got the resort at a lower price point, so in order to compete with Disney's DIRECT sales (with financing, incentives, and loaded contracts available) the price must be attractive to potential buyers.

in answer to your second "question" - give me a break!

 

[Disney Doll]

Supply and demand.

Beating Disney's initial pricing for SSR, which is still available and very attractive if you are already an owner.

Location...BCV, BWV, VWL are close to major parks, SSR is close to DTD but not a park.

No, SSR was not a mistake. There are many folks, myself included, who think it is a great resort, and love it as an additional choice in the DVC system.

 

[Slakk]

Supply and demand.

Beating Disney's initial pricing for SSR, which is still available and very attractive if you are already an owner.

Location...BCV, BWV, VWL are close to major parks, SSR is close to DTD but not a park.

No, SSR was not a mistake. There are many folks, myself included, who think it is a great resort, and love it as an additional choice in the DVC system.

I just sold my SSR contract for what I paid for it so I used it for two years for only MF fees. I did not sell it because I did not enjoy SSR - instead I am reallocating so I only have 50 pt contracts.

 

[UConnJack]

On a side note do you think Disney made a mistake in building saratoga?

Depends on who you ask. A lot of BWV/BCV/VWL owners in particular would say yes, as it has changed the dynamic of resort availability out of their favor. Obviously it has not been a mistake to Disney who has made gobs of $$$ from it, nor for SSR owners who love the resort because they can always get a room at their home resort even last minute. Myself, I don't think SSR was a mistake, per se, but I think they made mistakes with it.

 

[SaratogaShan]

Depends on who you ask. A lot of BWV/BCV/VWL owners in particular would say yes, as it has changed the dynamic of resort availability out of their favor. Obviously it has not been a mistake to Disney who has made gobs of $$$ from it, nor for SSR owners who love the resort because they can always get a room at their home resort even last minute. Myself, I don't think SSR was a mistake, per se, but I think they made mistakes with it.

UConn...........you're gettin soft lately!

 

[Coach Rick]

Being owners of three contracts, one at VB, one at SSR, and our newest at AKV, I will answer the VB one first.

Back in 02 when we finally bought there was huge incentives to buying at VB. We ended up paying $65/point, so even at $67 going rate now we don't loose a thing. Got to use those points for the last 5 years, and are still making an additional $2/point toward the "higher" maintenance fees we pay. Glad you asked that question, because I have been thinking of selling our VB points, but after doing this analysis, I really don't think we got a bad deal there. It cost us about $250 more per year on maintenance fees (in comparison to SSR), which means we have paid a total of $1250 more in maintenance fees from SSR, not sure about BC which was our other choice at the time of purchase. But I believe at the time BC would have cost us more like $85/pt. which would have been $3500 more than we paid for VB. We will be staying at VB for the first time in May, so we have always gotten into any resort we wanted at the 7 month marker without problem, including VWL at Christmas without a problem.

We have stayed at SSR once and will again in May before our DCL cruise, and after our VB stay, because of the easy in and out. We don't plan on going in any of the parks during that stay, so proximity of parks are not important. So, IMO SSR was not a mistake and has a great purpose to us. Plus it is piece of mind that being such a large resort there will always be a place to stay on property no matter how short the notice.

Hope that helps answer the question on VB.

 

[tomandrobin]

I agree with most of above, plus will add that the friend and family promotion made the resale price go lower too. Hard to resell when DVC was offerring new contracts at $86/pp.

 

[mla973]

Interesting... I've done the WDW College Program twice ('99 and '01), and I've never heard that. I imagine those are much less crowded and probably cleaner than where I stayed!

Word is the buildings still in use as housing for folks participaing in the College Program.

 

[UConnJack]

UConn...........you're gettin soft lately!

Well, I never thought I was that hard to begin with (although I have admittedly played it up on occasion to spice up the debate.) I personally don't care for SSR, that is obvious, but I never said it was a (complete) mistake. Just think it could have been done a lot better. Hopefully time and improvements will help, it’s not totally beyond redemption, but unfortunately, my biggest issues with it really can't be changed.