Why Shouldn't WDW close each Park One Day a Week?

[Peter Pirate]

I don't disagree with you Mr. Voice (believe it or not) but in the current era, with ME running the show I find it interesting to bandy about logical (sort of) "what ifs" to discuss. Sure Eisner will probably never care to do these things but in my mind I'd like to know could it be done. Could both masters be served?

 

[crusader]

Peter -

All things aside, the only way it would stand any chance of acceptance is if they restructure the park hopper to incorporate a 3-park ticket. But, that defeats the purpose.

I agree with you regarding the maintenance issue. I would hope corporate scales back the overhead allocation to directly finance whatever improvements are necessary to keep the parks well manicured and safe.

 

[morphi]

But the point is that with one park closed the remainder would all be fully restored to their past glory.You wouldn't be herded to one Spectro because there wouldn't be just one. No closed land-all would be open when the park opens.

I suppose you are right Viking that those were the assumptions of the original post. If you could guarantee these rules, I may be interested in such a deal. I'd still feel like I was being herded, but probably not as much as I do now.

But I still wonder if the general public would value the "small" positives gained in this bargain (all lands open all the time, late hours, more Spectro, all rides open) less than the "large" negative of only having three parks to choose from on any given day.

And how did we get to the point where we need to choose between all parks being open vs. being nit-picked about what is open and for how long? Wasn't there a time when everything was open all the time? What has changed since then? Surely attendance is at about the same level and ticket prices have covered inflation. What changed?

 

[morphi]

{duplicate post}

 

[Peter Pirate]

And how did we get to this point where we need to choose between all parks being open vs. being nit-picked about what is open and for how long? Wasn't there a time when everything was open all the time?

Well, I don't think we've really gotten anywhere since this is all "pretend." But, my concern with everything being open all of the time are things like (first and foremost) the GTMRR accident and the painting/repairing in public view issues, etc. As Mr. Voice showed us, in Walt's DL, the Parks DID have off days and so I believe the work required every evening after the Park closed was probably not as extensive as after they and WDW were opening 7 days a week. Perhaps this change in policy at DL directly affected the future maintenance issues at DL. Mr. Voice, any thoughts?

 

[Another Voice]

Disneyland went dark two days a week for attendance isssues, not for maintenance. In the "pack the kids in the station wagon for the annual two week summer vacation to visit Aunt Flo" days of the 1960's it made sense. Today it's the "jet off for a quick week stay and I'll answer my e-mail from the hotel" world. WDW is a year-round resort now. It has to act like one.

The fact that the Magic Kindgom has run more than three decades (and Disneyland closing in on two) without requiring down time for maintenance proves that running an "open all days" park is possible. The difference is in the quantity and the quality of maintenance being done - not the time of day. A lightbulb really doesn't care when it gets changed.

The "maintenance dark days" is just anther cover for "slash the costs and make the guests pay". None of the past cuts were offset by additions elsewhere, no scracfice now will be rewarded in the future. It's a pleasant PR spin to think that, but it ain't true. Entertainment is not a zero-sum game.

You either make something a lot of people are willing to pay for, or you don't. Disney is losing its appeal and, rather than fix that problem, is trying to hike the margins on what's left.

It won't work no matter how it's phrased.

 

[Peter Pirate]

Thanks for DL history Voice.

Remember this thread didn't originate from anything I read from Disney, it was just my imagination and while I concede that if Disney (ME) does try something like this it will probably not be for the reasons I have outlined. But you said

It won't work no matter how it's phrased.

Do you mean to say that (given good intentions) it couldn't work?

 

[KNWVIKING]

***"But I still wonder if the general public would value the "small" positives gained in this bargain (all lands open all the time, late hours, more Spectro, all rides open) less than the "large" negative of only having three parks to choose from on any given day."***

This is OT and I'm just thinking out loud, or "out keyboard" so to speak, but I wonder if the general public even realizes many of the cut backs we discuss here ? Do they know Toontown opens later ? Do they know that the observation deck is now closed to the public ? Just curious.

 

[morphi]

I wonder if the general public even realizes many of the cut backs we discuss here ? Do they know Toontown opens later ? Do they know that the observation deck is now closed to the public ? Just curious.

I bet that a lot do not notice, but even those that do, probably do not think it's a big deal. They don't compare it to the good ol' Disney days, they compare it to Six Flags, or Knot's Berry Farm, or whatever. So when they see that Adventureland opens late, it doesn't impact them on a conscious level.

But I still think there is an impact. With short hours, sporadic fireworks and spectro, closed attractions, the satisfaction index may still be a 6 (on a scale of 1 to 10, 10 being the best). But if it takes an 8 to turn a first time guest into a return-time-and-time-again and I-can't-wait-to-bring-my-kids-and-grandkids enthusiast, Disney's prospects for future attendance and guest loyalty takes a hit.

But that's the problem. Disney is perceived as slightly or moderately leading the class of theme parks like Universal or Knot's instead of being in a completely different class altogether.

 

[morphi]

Thinking about closing one park down per day made me question if there really is an over-supply of parks at WDW relative to the number of people that visit WDW. Does anyone have any numbers showing the number of guests-days (the number of guests in one year times the average number of days they were on property in that year) for WDW as a whole (not for each park on its own) over the last 5-10 years? Or, barring hard numbers or estimates, could anyone take an educated guess about if the numbers have been increasing or decreasing and to what extent?

 

[Another Voice]

"Do you mean to say that (given good intentions) it couldn't work?"

I really think it wouldn't.

People go to WDW to see the parks. Sure all the rest of the stuff adds to the experience but the parks are the draw. It would be like a casino resort in Vegas closing its gaming floor, or Hawaii closing its beaches, or a movie theater opening up just the snack bar for lunch.

People focus on a destination's main attraction. If it's not working, people are going to be upset (or never show up in the first place).

 

[Nemo87]

Guest throw a fit when an attraction is closed if they closed a park it would even be worse.

 

[PKS44]

Originally posted by morphi:

But that's the problem. Disney is perceived as slightly or moderately leading the class of theme parks like Universal or Knot's instead of being in a completely different class altogether.

There was an excellent economic analysis of Disney on mouseplanet.com about 2 years ago that pointed out the slippery slope Disney was treading by trying to compete with the cheaper options...basically you can be a high cost but high priced place if people see the value in the higher prices (which they will if you spend and give them all you can) or you can be a lower cost place and still try to charge high prices but then you invite lots of other competition that wants to get in on that kind of deal-that competition then starts a process of price wars and cost cutting that drags you down from being a special place like a Saks Fifth Avenue or barney's to a Wal-Mart...and eventually just another commodity where price fluctuates with demand....a far cry from the lofty position that a Disney once enjoyed when it was willing to spend a lot to charge a lot...there are not many competitors willing to take those risks and Disney thrived as such an entity..it has not thrived trying to do what Pirate is suggesting -serving the cost control master and the quality master as the same time.

 

[goofyguy1958]

I like the idea. In recent times, it seems that most reports, from friends and family returning from WDW, center around what cut back has effected ones perception of the DisneyWorld experience. I have gotten good reviews from first timers , but anyone who has been before does nothing but complain about how the hours are much shorter, it doesn't seem like the upkeep is as important, etc. etc. If Disney does not start to look at these types of complaints, I am affraid that the reduced attendence, that everyone is reporting, may be the norm rather than the exception. Where will they cut back then? Where will we be then?

 

[doubletrouble_vb]

In a perfect world...

1. One park being closed off to me for two of my seven days of vacation? Since I only see two parks a day except on my last day I could see it if the dates were Tuesday and Wednesday. However I would not be a happy camper unless I got the full monty and even then its TWO DAYS being shortchanged.
2. A more acceptable option might be just Wednesdays in one park other than AK. Move 8 hours of coverage over to the remaining two parks (any two of MGM, EPCOT and MK) distributed in whatever way is most workable...a later closings at MK and MGM would be my vote but that would affect the dinner crowd in EPCOT.

In THIS world I don't see it working at all and would rather see ME add a new festival in EPCOT late January or early February.

 

[lauzon13]

Never ever. I love being able to go anywhere at anytime. Just knowing that the park may be emptier is sometimes nicer. I like spending some time in an emptier park Yes, it's selfish but it feels like I have the parks to myself.

 

[C.Ann]

Originally posted by Another Voice
"The question is could they do it AND cust costs at the same time?"

Through the end of Disney's 3rd quarter (June 2003), the Parks unit has made more around a billion dollars. And that's not even counting the extremely profitable summer months of Q4.

So why should I - the ticket buying, hamburger purchasing, plush spending guest - give up yet even more of my vacation dollars' value so Mikey can add a few money pennies to his aleady overflowing parachute?

How much are the guests supposed to loose so that Disney executives need not feel any pain?

I think Dsiney would be far better off trying to figure out ways to make people WANT to go to WDW rather than figuring our more ways of squeezing more bucks from the decling number who go in spite of everything.

------------------------------------------------------

My sentiments EXACTLY !!

 

[exDS vet]

I'm just wondering if we have all become a bit spoiled where WDW is concerned. It seems like the majority of people out there want nothing to do with reduced hours, or parks being closed one day each week. I think we might be both spoiled and selfish.

Then I read the complaints about parades, fireworks, Spectromagic, etc not being offered every single day. I must remind you that prior to WDW's 25th Anniversary celebration, all of these extras were only offered seasonally and/or on weekends. It seems like the "s" word (seasonal) should not apply, when in fact, it must.

On one of my annual week-long trips to WDW, I only spent about two hours at AK. At the time, I felt like I short changed myself. But it only made me appreciate that park much more, the following year.

Here are my ideas which will not be popular.
1. Keep shortened park hours during all slow seasons.
2. Extend hours for holiday periods and summer.
3. Close MGM, Epcot and AK one day each week (seasonally)
4. Close BB in the fall and TL in the winter
5. FW goes back to pre 9/11 hours
6. Don't open MK "lands" at different times
7. Maintain reduced entertainment schedule on seasonal basis.
8. Maximize all entertainment schedules during peak seasons.

Let's be thankful that the Disney parks don't close down for entire seasons like the Six Flags and other parks do. Let's be happy with what we have. Things may not be perfect in the "world". But they are better than anywhere else.

Besides, it only has to be "practically perfect in every way."

 

[PKS44]

WDW is not Six Flags- it is a resort destination competing with Vegas, Hawaii, etc. No body travels across the ocean to visit Six Flags.

Seasonal would be fine except that Disney now tells us and charges us as if October is regular season but the hours and entertainment are more like off season.

As already pointed out-there is no real savings in closing AK- its operating costs are too high whether it is open or closed.

Nobody needs to "thankful" to Disney for anything...they are providing a service which we pay for- pay ALOT for- if they do not deliver what we pay for- we can take our business to one of those other resort destinations that may either give us more or charge us less.

 

[Peter Pirate]

I've heard a lot of good thoughts. Certainly we are not beholding to Disney. We should NEVER feel grateful for what they give us.

I agree that the monetary effects of closing AK would probably be minimal, but I still choose to look at this from a "serving both masters" POV. I still wonder is it feasible.

Also, I only suggested closing each Park one day per week, closing any park for two days a week is a different subject. And as outlined, MK HAS to be included as the MK is in probably more need than any Park with regard to maintenance issues.

As far as plannning and availability to do what we want I don't see the relevence except for folks like myself (AP'ers who rarely stay more than 3 nights at a time). Otherwise, a fully staffed and operating AK, Epcot & MGM will certainly be able to carry the load during small times without overcrowding...Remember this is off peak times only.

Lastly, I again thank AV for the historical perspective of DL when it was closing, but I must say I find it hard to believe that Disneyland chose to perform all 'routines' during the night instead of during the black days...There would be no sense in that.

Again, I could be wrong and I respect all of the thought out opinions proffered, but it would seem that a MK offering all attractions, options, parades and fireworks for somewhat longer hours 6 days a week is better than the current 7 day schedule...