Why no hotel on the EPCOT line

[lockedoutlogic]

@lockedoutlogic

I wasn't laughing *at* Roberts statement...I was laughing *with* him.

It was a bullseye remark.

Love it!

I know...

 

[beer dave]

The problem at wdw is that Disney is attempting to squeeze juice from already spoiling fruit...

Sometimes thought to be spoiling fruit is actually fermenting......

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Sometimes thought to be spoiling fruit is actually fermenting......

Are you suggesting cocktails on its a small world and the maelstrom???


Brilliant

 

[OnSpaceshipEarth]

I know...

That's the problem with the internet sometimes...no body language, inflections of voice...etc.

 

[andyman8]

With that area, it's kinda tough. Believe it or not, that land is not necessarily the most "ripe" for development. Much of it (going all the way down from the former site of the Mediterranean Resort to the middle of Epcot) is pretty difficult to build on between the "muck", sinkholes, and all of the additional drainage that would be required. You've got to remember the difficulty Disney faced when building Epcot in regard to the land it was on. Shall I elaborate of the more than half dozen monorail pylons that sunk into the ground near Imagination! or what ended up canceling the construction of the Mediterranean Resort. That said, with today's technology and the resources Disney has, it could be done but it's more of a question if Disney is willing to spend that kind of money.

More to the point, recently, Disney's focus has been on attracting the budget-conscience traveler who doesn't want to pay 300 or 400 dollars a night to stay at a hotel. With that in mind, they've also pushed DVC but very delicately when it comes to the expenses or costs associated with it. It's one thing to build a wing of units on to an existing resort and another thing entirely (finically speaking) to build a resort from the ground up regarding multiple dining locations, pools, a lobby, shops, and new bus/monorail stations. One of the ways Disney keeps the DVC "profits" high is by keeping the costs as low as possible while steadily growing the club and its numbers. After the Polynesian DVC, Disney's got its sights set on the River Country site and also a project tentatively titled "The Villas at Epcot", which would be Disney's attempt to allow people to stay inside the upper floors of the World Showcase pavilions through DVC as a Deluxe Villa Resort. Much of the basic infrastructure is already there but of course there is still so many concerns and problems to work out that it's something that, while bound to happen soon, keeps getting put behind "easier" projects but ahead of any sort of standalone DVC resort (pretty sure there aren't any in development though).

Then there's the question of demand. Eight deluxes seems to be enough. Property-wide, last I heard occupancy was at 79% (that's down from 80) with deluxes actually being lower. Of course, I'm sure there would be significantly more demand if prices were a bit more reasonable (hence why you don't see them stopping the deep discounts at the deluxes). Not to mention, any hotel on the Epcot monorail line would be really close to either the three MK ones or the Epcot Resort Area hotels, so it's not like there aren't already rooms there.

However, if things start to turn around with the deluxe resorts and occupancy rates start to consistently increase, the Epcot monorail line would certainly be a logical place to expand but it would be expensive.

 

[old lady]

I asked myself the same question.

 

[beer dave]

With that area, it's kinda tough. Believe it or not, that land is not necessarily the most "ripe" for development. Much of it (going all the way down from the former site of the Mediterranean Resort to the middle of Epcot) is pretty difficult to build on between the "muck", sinkholes, and all of the additional drainage that would be required. You've got to remember the difficulty Disney faced when building Epcot in regard to the land it was on. Shall I elaborate of the more than half dozen monorail pylons that sunk into the ground near Imagination! or what ended up canceling the construction of the Mediterranean Resort. That said, with today's technology and the resources Disney has, it could be done but it's more of a question if Disney is willing to spend that kind of money.

More to the point, recently, Disney's focus has been on attracting the budget-conscience traveler who doesn't want to pay 300 or 400 dollars a night to stay at a hotel. With that in mind, they've also pushed DVC but very delicately when it comes to the expenses or costs associated with it. It's one thing to build a wing of units on to an existing resort and another thing entirely (finically speaking) to build a resort from the ground up regarding multiple dining locations, pools, a lobby, shops, and new bus/monorail stations. One of the ways Disney keeps the DVC "profits" high is by keeping the costs as low as possible while steadily growing the club and its numbers. After the Polynesian DVC, Disney's got its sights set on the River Country site and also a project tentatively titled "The Villas at Epcot", which would be Disney's attempt to allow people to stay inside the upper floors of the World Showcase pavilions through DVC as a Deluxe Villa Resort. Much of the basic infrastructure is already there but of course there is still so many concerns and problems to work out that it's something that, while bound to happen soon, keeps getting put behind "easier" projects but ahead of any sort of standalone DVC resort (pretty sure there aren't any in development though).

Aha..... Someone supporting my past hypothesis that for DVC to grow in the future as it has in the past they will need to build resort rooms in the parks. That would be awesome. Can't imagine there is a lot of available space--- Nothing at mexico, probably nothing at Japan...

 

[chartle]

and also a project tentatively titled "The Villas at Epcot", which would be Disney's attempt to allow people to stay inside the upper floors of the World Showcase pavilions through DVC as a Deluxe Villa Resort. Much of the basic infrastructure is already there but of course there is still so many concerns and problems to work out that it's something that, while bound to happen soon, keeps getting put behind "easier" projects but ahead of any sort of standalone DVC resort (pretty sure there aren't any in development though).

Aha..... Someone supporting my past hypothesis that for DVC to grow in the future as it has in the past they will need to build resort rooms in the parks. That would be awesome. Can't imagine there is a lot of available space--- Nothing at mexico, probably nothing at Japan...

What infrastructure are you talking about at Epcot, they have a road that goes past a lot of areas that Disney doesn't want you to see. I've been back there twice and some areas look like dumps. Not the groomed grass and shrubberies that line the public roads.

You would have to have some sort of covered tunnel for guests . and all windows would have to point towards the water. This is one reason there isn't anything in the tower in Paris, well besides the fact that it's only about 40 feet tall.

As per how the Castle Suite worked you are pretty much locked in for the night.

Also they may not want you to see them power washing and doing other duties that have to be done when the park is closed.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

What infrastructure are you talking about at Epcot, they have a road that goes past a lot of areas that Disney doesn't want you to see. I've been back there twice and some areas look like dumps. Not the groomed grass and shrubberies that line the public roads.

You would have to have some sort of covered tunnel for guests . and all windows would have to point towards the water. This is one reason there isn't anything in the tower in Paris, well besides the fact that it's only about 40 feet tall.

As per how the Castle Suite worked you are pretty much locked in for the night.

Also they may not want you to see them power washing and doing other duties that have to be done when the park is closed.

You are correct...I've been back there many times and its a mess... And big. One reason is there are spots for six...I believe...pads for new countries. 1979 Disney is much smarter than 2013 Disney for leaving their options open... As evidenced by the "mega" bus stops.

I think if the "park idea" Hotel were to exist...and it's a reasonable assumption...I think it would be more like a Disneyland hotel in Paris or Hong Kong...over or adjacent the entrance where "backstage" exposure can be controlled.

It would also have to be mixed used...as a DVC only would be bad PR in that case... And rack rooms would always sell...as long as the thieves don't ask for $900 a night.

The Paris Disneyland Hotel is beautiful... By the way. It would be a welcome addition.
Except they'd have to repaint it so its not the grand floridian

 

[andyman8]

What infrastructure are you talking about at Epcot, they have a road that goes past a lot of areas that Disney doesn't want you to see. I've been back there twice and some areas look like dumps. Not the groomed grass and shrubberies that line the public roads.

You would have to have some sort of covered tunnel for guests . and all windows would have to point towards the water. This is one reason there isn't anything in the tower in Paris, well besides the fact that it's only about 40 feet tall.

As per how the Castle Suite worked you are pretty much locked in for the night.

Also they may not want you to see them power washing and doing other duties that have to be done when the park is closed.

I was referring to the existing pavilion buildings that they could build up on. Of course, the difference between these villas and the Cinderella Castle Suite is that the CCS is in the dead center of the park so there's not immediate way to exit the "hotel" without entering MK. With Epcot, the pavilions but up against the back service road at Epcot. Anyways, the backs of the pavilions could be cleared up, but again it's one of the many complications with this project. That said, as time progresses, it's becoming more of a question of when rather than if. From Disney's view, these villas could be set out for premium prices whether it be through dollars or DVC points.

 

[Lewisc]

And rack rooms would always sell...as long as the thieves don't ask for $900 a night.

It depends on how many units are built. Couldn't you see Disney (attempting) to position such a property in the same category as Main Building Club level GF? Concierge lounge featuring offerings from the WS restaurants.

$900 a night might be on the low side.

Value and WDW vacation seem to be mutually exclusive. Disney seems to be going back to their old philosophy. The typical family will vacation at WDW once or twice in their lifetime and don't care how much credit card debt they incur in the process.

 

[chartle]

I was referring to the existing pavilion buildings that they could build up on. Of course, the difference between these villas and the Cinderella Castle Suite is that the CCS is in the dead center of the park so there's not immediate way to exit the "hotel" without entering MK. With Epcot, the pavilions but up against the back service road at Epcot. Anyways, the backs of the pavilions could be cleared up, but again it's one of the many complications with this project. That said, as time progresses, it's becoming more of a question of when rather than if. From Disney's view, these villas could be set out for premium prices whether it be through dollars or DVC points.

Its a little more than throw pillows and cut flowers to "Clean up the area".

Its all back stage area that they need and use to support the WS. Maybe they could come in somewhere around France and use a few pavilions over there but no way there could be rooms in all the pavilions. It would require way too much support like lobbies and QS and TS since people staying there would want to eat before and after the WS closes and what if they don't want to use a ticket to "enter" Epcot.

I don't see it happening. Its much cheaper to add on to faculties that already have the back end to support a resort.

If anyone is wondering here is what this backstage area looks like.

http://goo.gl/maps/u7vNM

 

[SkaGoat]

1979 Disney is much smarter than 2013 Disney for leaving their options open... As evidenced by the "mega" bus stops.

Don't think this is true, it's more likely they had a lot more money available with a new construction project, as well as any good planner will allow for space for expansion.

Not sure you can compare the construction of a whole new park, to a bus stop.... what wrong with the new bus stops anyway?

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Don't think this is true, it's more likely they had a lot more money available with a new construction project, as well as any good planner will allow for space for expansion.

Not sure you can compare the construction of a whole new park, to a bus stop.... what wrong with the new bus stops anyway?

Disney mortgaged the farm to build epcot...and was one of the primary reasons that they were almost raided and broken up.

What they didnt do with EPCOT was cut the corners...which is EXACTLY what they did at animal kingdom - when they had plenty of cash.

It's not a matter of funds... It's choices.

So they decided to build space for double diesel sucking buses. They're cheaper... Load em up.
No interest in light rail, PRT, mag lev, alternative energy methods...nothing that *might* strike the imagination of those coming.
Just more high paying meat shuffling...as cheaply as possible.

Magic and innovation... The "Disney" way

 

[OnSpaceshipEarth]

Its a little more than throw pillows and cut flowers to "Clean up the area".

Its all back stage area that they need and use to support the WS. Maybe they could come in somewhere around France and use a few pavilions over there but no way there could be rooms in all the pavilions. It would require way too much support like lobbies and QS and TS since people staying there would want to eat before and after the WS closes and what if they don't want to use a ticket to "enter" Epcot.

I don't see it happening. Its much cheaper to add on to faculties that already have the back end to support a resort.

If anyone is wondering here is what this backstage area looks like.

http://goo.gl/maps/u7vNM

Thanks for the backstage map, Chartle! Awesome...I always wanted to know what it looked like back *there*.

 

[rteetz]

With all this hotel talk plans were just leaked for a planned hotel at the river country site called wilderness way. No word on when it will be announced when construction would start or when it would possibly open but all the blueprints seem to be there.

 

[chartle]

With all this hotel talk plans were just leaked for a planned hotel at the river country site called wilderness way. No word on when it will be announced when construction would start or when it would possibly open but all the blueprints seem to be there.

The Blue prints for this have been floating around for maybe two years. It was a huge topic in the camping forum. I'll try to find the thread.

I think the plans are somewhere in this thread.

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2569234