why marry a woman first if you're a gay man?

[NHdisneylover]

Okay now that I have posted a couple times here, may I please ask a question? I apologize for the length of this but do not know how esle to convey the issue.

On New Years Eve we were blessed to be able to host a wedding for our freinds in our home. It was one of the very first Civil Unions in the state when the new law took effect--held right after midnight. The grooms' three children were all here. They were from our friend's first maraige (to woman--which I am sure the title has already conveyed to you ).

DS and DD know both grooms and all three teens, but we know them through theatre and they have never really paid attention to which teens belong to which adults. So, a couple of days ago in the car DS9 asks me how a gay man had kids (he knows his friend who has two moms was born by one and that they used a sperm bank). He is a thinker and I can tell he had been mulling over how this would work in reverse for a while now DD11 jumped right in and said they were probably adopted.

So I replied that adoption is an option that many gay men (and some gay women and some straight couples, and some single people . . .) use, but in this case the kids were from B's first marraige. Both kids were startled, and really wanted to know why he would be married to a woman (in fact both grooms were which I told them) if they are gay and not even Bi.

I didn't want to totally harp on this, but again they are thinkers and really want to know. So, I tried to give an answer that made sense (having no expereince in the area myself ) I pointed out how very little family came to the wedding (none of one man's 13 siblings, parents, etc). I explained that they were both raised by people who felt being gay was not okay. I said if you never know it is an option maybe you'd think that this girl you liked as a friend was really all you were supposed to feel as adult love, or maybe you didn't want to admit even to yourself that you felt things that you had always been told were evil, etc. I also said that even in a family that is toatlly accepting I would imagine this could still be confusing for someone becuase the societal expectation we all grew up with is "boy meets girl"

So, when they bring this up again (and they will--I have heard the two of them discussing it, and feelign terrible for our friends having such icky families), if I have not had a chance to talk to our friends before that (I will ask--just haven't seen them) what esle would you suggest I say? How to explain? Or, put it to me here in grown up terms and I will adjust down to their level.

THANKS for your input! Oh, and ConcKahuna feel free to ignore me after I jumped all over the grammar in one of your posts

 

[ConcKahuna]

Well, contrary to Bravo being gay isn't always in style or easy. When I was in High School, I was VERY afraid of "being gay." I knew I was, but I didnt want to be. I dated women, I had sex with women, I tried my darndest to enjoy it. If I hadn't have moved out of the town I was in and into a more liberal area where I could learn to accept myself, I probably would have ended up the same way.

 

[odd1]

Assuming that none of you have had a deep enough discussion with either of the grooms to really know whether they're "bi" or not, it seems a logical answer that they married a woman because they fell in love with her. And that they are now married to one another because they fell in love with each other.

My son asked me a similar question not too long ago. He started by asking if he could marry a boy. I said yes, assuming the boy wanted to marry him. He thought about that for a moment and then asked me why I married a boy if I could have married a girl (he actually doesn't know that I'm attracted to women -- he's only 6). I told him I married his Daddy because I fell in love with him. You marry who you fall in love with.

I know my son is only six and it's easier to answer questions if the questioner doesn't know all the ins and outs of things.

But I'm 39 and that answer works for me too.

You marry who you fall in love with. Labels simply don't answer the question.

 

[hematite153]

It sounds like you've done a decent job of starting to answer the questions. Although, it sounds like you will get more of them.

Highlights that people have given me:

- As odd1 said, maybe B is bi. People generally assume that I'm lesbian and rosiep has said that people generally assume that she is straight--yet, we both seem to identify more in the bi spectrum.

- I know several people who identify primarily as gay who have fallen in love with a member of the opposite gender--if asked, they say, "if anything happened to DH/DW, I'd go back to women/men in a heartbeat". (Likewise, I've known many people who identify primarily as straight who have fallen in love with a member of the same gender--they seem to have a harder time accepting this attraction since it's not only contrary to their standard attractions, but, also to society's.)

- I know a few people who truly didn't know that they weren't straight--there are a few people on these boards who have said this. Maybe it's about lack of exposure, maybe it's about not being ready to accept, maybe it's just about the fact that sexuality can be fluid for many people. (I was confident that I was lesbian at 15, fell in love with a boy at 16, decided I was probably bi at 18, had my friends tell me I was straight at 19, by 22 they'd convinced me, decided I was lesbian at 26 and came to terms with the fluidity that can be part of being bi when I was 28. If I can go through this much uncertainty when growing up in an environment that was accepting, how much worse could it be for someone who grew up in a conservative environment?)

- I have also known people who were determined that NOBODY would ever know that they were gay. These people could easily end up in a 'straight' marriage.

 

[NHdisneylover]

Thanks for the insight and responses! Yep, still love this board

 

[RickinNYC]

I'm not sure you really can add anything else to what you've told them. As far as I'm concerned, you hit the nail on the head. And quite honeslty, GOOD JOB! We need more parents like you around!

To add a little personal insight, like Conk, I dated girls back in Junior High and High School and into college. At the time, it's what I knew was the right "choice." I was raised in a very strict Catholic household by conservative Republican parents on a military base.

When I started coming to terms with my sexuality, the very idea of being gay was never an option. Over the years, I knew what my personal issues were and refused to deal with them. I felt that if I could just find the right girl, she could help me banish the "immoral" thoughts I had about men.

It never happened. I came to terms with my self, accepted me for what I was, and I still had huge issues. I was horribly depressed, very anti-social, lashed out and honestly, hurt myself in the process. I ended up in the hospital for a little while.

But I finally just told myself to get over it, to look beyond what I was raised to believe and to really hold true to what I knew was the real me. I then came out with a vengeance and I haven't looked back.

Had I not been able to really deal with being gay, I can honestly tell you that I would have gotten married, had children, the works. I would have forgone my own happiness and peace of mind simply because society dictated I should.

Many men and women have done and will continue to do so until society at large understands that the only choice in being gay is the choice in accepting it. Until that day comes, there will be more people marrying even when doing so makes them deeply dissatisfied with their lives. There will be many women in loveless marriages to secretly gay men. There will be be many men who don't understand why their wives don't want them in the same bed. There will be children who's parents don't want to be together and don't understand why there's a pall over their family.

Even in the 21st century, this is still something that will continue to happen until all communities, gay and straight, can understand, accept and move on.

 

[MousekaMaddi]

NHdisneylover.........great job, great answer, great post!!
Im a straight 43 yr old with a dh and a DD5, can I use your exact words to discuss real life with my DD when those questions arrise, wonderful job! Im so pleased I found this post-Thank u!!

 

[Tigger&Belle]

This is really fascinating. I'm partially reading this as if I'm you, answering my children's questions (I didn't know anyone in your situation, but my BIL is gay and from the time my kids were young it was something that was openly talked about). But I'm also reading this as someone in my advanced who is figuring out her sexuality.

I'm not really sure why I married and lived so many years as a straight female. I don't know why I didn't realize that I'm bi/lesbian before. That's one thing that I'm grappling with now. I also don't know how I'm going to explain myself to my children. Sometimes I sit back and watch my storyline, almost like it's a movie that I'm watching on tv, if that makes any sense. Or maybe it would be a soap opera.

I know that all this conflict in my head has contributed to the depression and anxiety that I've been dealing with. Sometimes I still want to stick my head in the sand and not deal with any of it, like that will somehow make what I still have to go through go away.

I am really babbling.

Thank you for being honest, open, and accepting with your children, NHdisneylover.

 

[DevilDuckie]

9 and 11 are old enough to be aware of the unequal assumptions about a person's default sexuality (for lack of a less stupid way to describe it). You might try explaining that people are often brought up to assume they are straight and it may take them a while to realize they aren't. The kids will probably understand, "Groom married a woman because he thought that's what he was meant to do and didn't figure out until later that he was happier with another man."

Don't know if that helps.

 

[npmommie]

You marry who you fall in love with. Labels simply don't answer the question.

I love this answer, so simple, and so true. perfect

 

[hematite153]

said if you never know it is an option maybe you'd think that this girl you liked as a friend was really all you were supposed to feel as adult love,

My DW was just reading over my shoulder and said,

"That's brilliant! I never thought a 'straight' person would get this."

She says that she has tried to explain it many times but finds it tough. Her definitions for 'love' and 'friend' got skewed because of what she was told to expect. So, she thought that what she felt for boys must be 'love' and what she felt for girls must be 'friendship'. Fortunately, for me, she figured it out.

 

[npmommie]

I was raised in a very strict Catholic household by conservative Republican parents on a military base.

When I started coming to terms with my sexuality, the very idea of being gay was never an option. Over the years, I knew what my personal issues were and refused to deal with them. I felt that if I could just find the right girl, she could help me banish the "immoral" thoughts I had about men.


Had I not been able to really deal with being gay, I can honestly tell you that I would have gotten married, had children, the works. I would have forgone my own happiness and peace of mind simply because society dictated I should.

Many men and women have done and will continue to do so until society at large understands that the only choice in being gay is the choice in accepting it. Until that day comes, there will be more people marrying even when doing so makes them deeply dissatisfied with their lives. There will be many women in loveless marriages to secretly gay men. There will be be many men who don't understand why their wives don't want them in the same bed. There will be children who's parents don't want to be together and don't understand why there's a pall over their family.

Even in the 21st century, this is still something that will continue to happen until all communities, gay and straight, can understand, accept and move on.

This post reminds me of a good friend of my dh's from his military days.
one of hubby's very good friends in the coast guard is gay. way way back in our younger days when they were both stationed over in clearwater beach, we would hang out together a lot. ( way before the kiddos came along!)
one night after lots of drinks and deep in conversation at the bar .....the others were off in another area........this friend confessed to me he wished he wasn't gay. He wished he could find a girl like me and maybe he would be happy and not be gay. He said he was "trying to not be gay"........
He felt like he had to hide it, being in the military, his father was retired military........ a strict catholic family.
the whole nine yards.
He never ended up marrying a woman........he did accept his sexuality.

 

[Etoile]

Because of how American society treats gay people, sometimes they will try to play it straight and deny their true feelings, so they can get along better in the world. Sometimes this works out, sometimes it doesn't. There are many support groups for spouses who were left single after their ex "became gay". Sometimes people do start out straight and later develop feelings for their same gender! But very often it is a matter of repressing their sexuality, whether because being gay is against their religion or because it is just something they feel they have to do. All the "formerly" straight people I have known have found themselves to be much happier when they can openly acknowledge who they are...they don't feel stifled and secretive anymore, they can be free!

 

[NHdisneylover]

I just want to thank everyone again for your helpful insights . Also, thanks for taking me seriously and being so willing to comment--I know it is an odd thing to post about. And Rick, Mousekamaddie and Hematite153's DW extra thanks for being so kind as to say that I got some of it right anyway Finally, Tigger&Belle I just know you;ll find your way and I am sure your children do and will always love you and feeel your love for them (which is really what matters most in the mommy department isn't it )

 

[Tigger&Belle]

I just want to thank everyone again for your helpful insights . Also, thanks for taking me seriously and being so willing to comment--I know it is an odd thing to post about. And Rick, Mousekamaddie and Hematite153's DW extra thanks for being so kind as to say that I got some of it right anyway Finally, Tigger&Belle I just know you;ll find your way and I am sure your children do and will always love you and feeel your love for them (which is really what matters most in the mommy department isn't it )

It sure is what matters. Thanks for your kind words...hearing things from people I don't know can really make a difference. Not to say that hearing things from people I do know isn't helpful, too.

 

[NHdisneylover]

It sure is what matters. Thanks for your kind words...hearing things from people I don't know can really make a difference. Not to say that hearing things from people I do know isn't helpful, too.

You are more than welcome. And, if it helps at all to hear this, the groom's 3 kids that started this whole thing are GREAT kids (twins who are 15 and one who is 12). They all three seem well adjusted and they all three clearly love their dad (both their dads). They also love their mom. I have no idea what did go on with them when their dad came out and their parents got divorced but none seem to harbor any ill will or confusion at all now (I have spent quite a bit of time with the older two. Almost more than with their dad).

 

[padalyn]

Hey Hadley!!
Great to see you posting on this board. I loved your answers to your kids (and yes I can see them asking those questions!)

For myself - I dated men for years, was engaged a couple of times and really tried to see myself as the socially more acceptable girlfriend type. Had I not had so many problems in relationships with men I might also have traveled that road.

Since I did have a lot of issues, I finally realized that the troubles could not ALL be "blamed" on the guys...in fact most were awesome men - the problem had to be me. Once I realized that and put it in perspective I also came to the realization that I would be happier with women.

I like guys, intimate relations are fine with them...relationships...not so good!

to that end - my relationships with women are fraught with the same issues - we just deal with them a little differently!

I told someone who asked about it one time as: imagine having your best friend with really extra benefits! That is the best way to describe any relationship. Gender is unimportant.

 

[NHdisneylover]

Hi Cayla--good to see you Yeah, I bet you can totally picture Marika and Rio peppering me with questions from the backseat while I try to concentrate on decent answers and driving all at the same time Gotta love car conversations.
Thanks for giving me more insight.

 

[SanFranciscan]

I agree with "Odd1" that maybe these gay men did love their wives. These things happen, and I think this is one of very few times when double standards work in women's favor so the fact that they were men perhaps made them even more reluctant to accept being gay. I have had very affectionate female friends, and nobody seems to be bothered by that. My husband and his brother are awkward about even hugging each other on holidays, and they are blood relatives.

It was an open secret in our family that my sister was lesbian from a very early age. Her girlfriend Rachel was more open and said that the main prejudice against lesbians was that lesbians weren't relying upon men for their identity. I find that highly credible. It appears to me that the only time men can get close with anyone, even nonsexually, and avoid speculation that they are gay is when it is with a woman. That could send gay men into marriages that might be therefore destined to fail.

 

[Holly]

What thoughtful replies.