Why is out of state college so much more?

[allison443]

You know, you'd think one could find this W&M information (in-state & out-of-state demographics in the most recent freshman class) but dang! it is hard to come by.

agnes!

These posts made me curious, so I checked collegeconfidential. They have message boards for individual colleges. Here are two links:


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/11/13/AR2009111301940.html

http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-william-mary/1006959-oos-applicants.html

In the collegeconfidential thread, a W & M admissions officer states "Last year we admitted 32% of those who applied. We admitted 38% of the IS students who applied and 27% of the OOS students who applied." They receive more out of state applications than instate applications.

There is a state law that W & M and UVA must maintain certain levels of residents/non residents. (roughly 2/3 residents, 1/3 non residents). Because of the price difference, though, 2/3 of the tuition revenue comes from those out of state students.

You have to keep in mind that not all those admitted attend the school.

 

[tar heel]

Do Virginia universities now have a quota? Either they didn't used to or the quota was really high, like 50%.

 

[NCRedding]

According to what I read online, Virginia does not have a set quota. They attempted to pass legislation doing that in January or February of this year, but it failed.

The Washington Post quoted above indicates that William and Mary did in fact accept more out of state students than in state students for the incoming freshman class.

 

[allison443]

According to what I read online, Virginia does not have a set quota. They attempted to pass legislation doing that in January or February of this year, but it failed.

The Washington Post quoted above indicates that William and Mary did in fact accept more out of state students than in state students for the incoming freshman class.

They may have accepted more out of state students but the number of out of staters who enrolled is still only about 1/3 of the class.

 

[MrsPete]

Minnesota still has it, but its the community college/tech college system that grants automatic enrollment to Minnesota residents.

Ah, I didn't realize this was community college. Although I can't say with 100% certainty, I don't think anyone here is turned away from community college.

If I were a Virginia resident and William and Mary really admitted more in-state than out-of-state students, I would be pissed. UNC's out-of-state quota is 18%. It's a teensy bit easier for out-of-state alumni children to get in than out-of-state with no connections. Only the very top students in the state are accepted, but it's way easier than being out-of-state.

And NC kids from rural mountain counties have a better chance of admission to UNC than kids from big-city Mecklenburg or Wake counties.

 

[MrsPete]

They may have accepted more out of state students but the number of out of staters who enrolled is still only about 1/3 of the class.

I don't know this for a fact, but it seems to be logical to me:

Kids who apply to out-of-state schools are probably likely to be the ones who've spread their nets wide and have applied to a large number of schools. In the end, though, they can only choose one . . . so they're going to turn down several schools.

Also, I'd guess that some kids apply to lots of schools (some out of state), but when it's actually time to make a decision, out of state is more expensive. Even if they're receiving a good scholarship, there's transportation and the logistics of being able to come home less often. And don't we constantly hear people complaining that the expected financial aid didn't come through? Seeing those dollars in black and white could make a person decide that staying closer to home is a more realistic choice.

 

[allison443]

I don't know this for a fact, but it seems to be logical to me:

Kids who apply to out-of-state schools are probably likely to be the ones who've spread their nets wide and have applied to a large number of schools. In the end, though, they can only choose one . . . so they're going to turn down several schools.

Also, I'd guess that some kids apply to lots of schools (some out of state), but when it's actually time to make a decision, out of state is more expensive. Even if they're receiving a good scholarship, there's transportation and the logistics of being able to come home less often. And don't we constantly hear people complaining that the expected financial aid didn't come through? Seeing those dollars in black and white could make a person decide that staying closer to home is a more realistic choice.

Yes. The "yield" is the percentage of accepted students who actually enroll. The yield for out of state students at W & M is significantly lower than the instate yield. They accept more out of state, but fewer out of state actually enroll. With the economic situation of the last few years, they have had to increase the number of out of state students accepted in order to get the same number of enrollees.

 

[Leajess99]

My son is looking at 2 schools right now. One is back home in Michigan (Go Spartans!!!) and the other is here in Ky (Boo Cats!!!). The college in michigan is $28,000 a year and I am not sure what the Ky college costs are yet. He came home all excited today because he is a minority student with a 3.0 or high GPA and as such he qualifies to have his application fee waved and they are doing a campus visit from his school later this month just for the minority students. It was interesting to find this out today but I would so rather send him back to Michigan for school.

As for the original question, I know the difference is because of the taxes. I just wish Michigan would wave the out of state part since I did pay taxes for years there as did my mom and my family still does. Still trying to see if there are any waivers he could qualify for.

 

[tar heel]

To clarify, the reason I would be pissed if my state university admitted half out-of-state students is because those students' families are not tax payers. MrsPete mentioned that North Carolina residents from "rural mountain counties" have some preference in admission decisions. I don't have a problem with that. The university student bodies should represent the entire state plus those kids are going to be at the top of their classes. They are still going to be very good students. Their parents are taxpayers, too. A lot of these kids are first-generation college students, and it benefits the state to educate them well.

 

[allison443]

To clarify, the reason I would be pissed if my state university admitted half out-of-state students is because those students' families are not tax payers. MrsPete mentioned that North Carolina residents from "rural mountain counties" have some preference in admission decisions. I don't have a problem with that. The university student bodies should represent the entire state plus those kids are going to be at the top of their classes. They are still going to be very good students. Their parents are taxpayers, too. A lot of these kids are first-generation college students, and it benefits the state to educate them well.

I understand what you are saying. The only state school I am aware of that actually enrolls more out of state students than instate students is the University of Delaware. That is simply because Delaware has a small population in relation to the size of the university. However, they pretty much guarantee admission to Delawareans who take the necessary high school courses, and they meet full financial need for Delawareans. It is not as easy for out of staters to get in.

Schools seem to vary as to how they determine residency. We own property in the state where my dd attends, however it is not our primary residence so we must pay full out of state tuition. I have never heard of any university allowing instate tuition rates based on the fact that you used to live there, or have relatives who live there, like another poster was asking about.

 

[Soarin_04]

I work for a federally funded program that works with first generation, low income high school kids, preparing them for college.

My two cents, for what it's worth...

1. Start the scholarship searching at the end of 9th grade because they won't get serious about it until they're 10th graders (if then!). Look on Fastweb.com for starters. There ARE some weird scholarships out there -- like the one for redheaded violinists from Altoona (I kid you not!). Now, that one was created with a specific kid in mind many, many moons ago, but if no one applies for it, the money lies untouched. However, if you've got a redhead and he/she applies and thus meets ONE of the criteria, then they may possibly offer him/her that cash.

2. I always tell my students to apply to three colleges -- a safe school that they're relative sure they can get into, a reach school, and a community college. Community colleges have open admissions and most will allow a last minute add if the student doesn't get into the college of his/her choice. We had a kid last year who got into a very pricey out of state school. Her EFC (expected family contribution) as she read it was $10K, which was more than her family could cough up. No one could convince her of this. She thought she'd work all summer and get the ten grand. Uh uh. She made the decision to give up the pipe dream for the reality in August. The local community college had no problem enrolling her.

3. Look at community colleges. Ten years ago, I probably wouldn't have said that and would've pushed more kids towards four year schools simply because they wouldn't have to make the transition if they continued to pursue their BA or BS. Not any more. The local community college has some fantastic opportunities for local students, you can bump out all of your required coursework on the cheap, they've formed partnerships with local four year schools which make credit transfer a dream, and -- the big part -- WAY more affordable. And no one cares where you start -- it's where you finish. Kick out two years of requirements at a community college, transfer to the big name school and complete a Bachelors there.

4. Another spot on point someone else made -- you may end up with more cash from a private or out of state school than a local public institution. I've had two students so far cop free rides -- one from a private school and one from an out of state public university -- while the local public university gave them next to nothing.

 

[agnes!]

Be prepared for sticker shock if you're just starting on this journey with your high-schoolers...$20,000 a year total before any aid (scholarships/grants/etc.) sounds downright cheap to me at this point.

You should have seen the one school we toured that was $40,000.00+ a year...this university wasn't a palace by any means, some of the freshman girls' dorms had EIGHT girls sharing a single-toilet bathroom (and were designed that way... ). My DD & I looked at each other and said "where the *heck* is all the money going?!?"

agnes!

 

[Deb & Bill]

Be prepared for sticker shock if you're just starting on this journey with your high-schoolers...$20,000 a year total before any aid (scholarships/grants/etc.) sounds downright cheap to me at this point.

You should have seen the one school we toured that was $40,000.00+ a year...this university wasn't a palace by any means, some of the freshman girls' dorms had EIGHT girls sharing a single-toilet bathroom (and were designed that way... ). My DD & I looked at each other and said "where the *heck* is all the money going?!?"

agnes!

Tuition doesn't cover room and board at all. Figure $7-10K per year for R&B. That should include 21 meals per week as well as the room.

Heck if it is a big football school, a ton of the money is going to the coaches and the football program.

 

[Leajess99]

Tuition doesn't cover room and board at all. Figure $7-10K per year for R&B. That should include 21 meals per week as well as the room.

Heck if it is a big football school, a ton of the money is going to the coaches and the football program.

And if it University of Kentucky, the money is also going to the former basketball coach. Sorry I just could not resist. Here basketball is the big thing so those coaches make a killing.

 

[JoanGirardi]

Just wanted to put something else out there--My alma mater offers a waiver of out of state fees if the student is the child of an alumnus.

 

[MrsPete]

I just wish Michigan would wave the out of state part since I did pay taxes for years there as did my mom and my family still does. Still trying to see if there are any waivers he could qualify for.

It's obviously cheating for people to declare residency at their aunt's house, or for kids to get an apartment in their college state so they can qualify for residency (because in those very common get-in-state-tuition scenerios, the state isn't really getting the tax money that's lowering the tuition bill), but YOU have a legitimate gripe! You really did pay taxes in Michigan.

MrsPete mentioned that North Carolina residents from "rural mountain counties" have some preference in admission decisions. I don't have a problem with that. The university student bodies should represent the entire state plus those kids are going to be at the top of their classes. They are still going to be very good students. Their parents are taxpayers, too. A lot of these kids are first-generation college students, and it benefits the state to educate them well.

I have a problem with it -- not a big problem, but a bit of a problem -- because sometimes those rural kids who are "helped in" by the quotas are less qualified than the big-city kids. I see the benefit in a diversified freshman class, but every year I see lots of my kids disappointed when they don't get into Chapel Hill. It's hard to see EXCELLENT CANDIDATES turned away.

A little off-topic, but I still have kids today who are first-generation high school graduates. In 2010, that surprises me!

There ARE some weird scholarships out there -- like the one for redheaded violinists from Altoona (I kid you not!). Now, that one was created with a specific kid in mind many, many moons ago, but if no one applies for it, the money lies untouched. However, if you've got a redhead and he/she applies and thus meets ONE of the criteria, then they may possibly offer him/her that cash.

I wouldn't get your hopes up for those. In 19 years of teaching high school seniors, and after hearing MANY kids (and their parents) excited about these mythical scholarships . . . I have yet to see anyone actually win one.

4. Another spot on point someone else made -- you may end up with more cash from a private or out of state school than a local public institution. I've had two students so far cop free rides -- one from a private school and one from an out of state public university -- while the local public university gave them next to nothing.

This is more possible than a red-headed violin scholarship, but it's not the norm. It's worth looking into, but it won't work out for most people. Who gets this deal? It's the kid who's genuinely top of his class (think top 10, not top 10%) who could get into the most competative colleges, but these deals come from the less prestigious private schools that're trying to attract well-qualified students.

 

[eliza61]

A little off-topic, but I still have kids today who are first-generation high school graduates. In 2010, that surprises me!I wouldn't get your hopes up for those. In 19 years of teaching high school seniors, and after hearing MANY kids (and their parents) excited about these mythical scholarships . . . I have yet to see anyone actually win one. This is more possible than a red-headed violin scholarship, but it's not the norm. It's worth looking into, but it won't work out for most people. Who gets this deal? It's the kid who's genuinely top of his class (think top 10, not top 10%) who could get into the most competative colleges, but these deals come from the less prestigious private schools that're trying to attract well-qualified students.

Doesn't surprise me at all, unfortunately MrsPete, I'm near Philly. Public schools are approaching a 40% dropout rate.
I'm a chemist, I volunteer with a group that tries to get young girls interested in sciences and math as a career, evidently girls kick behind in these areas when they are in middle school but by the time they get to h.s. they nose dive. I actually had a MOM tell me in September at the start of the program the only reason for her daughter to go to college was to get a husband.

I just about started to cry.

 

[MrsPete]

Doesn't surprise me at all, unfortunately MrsPete, I'm near Philly. Public schools are approaching a 40% dropout rate.

I don't know anything about Philadelphia schools, but I do know that the statistics are sometimes misleading.

For example: A good friend of my daughter's moved away last year. She will not graduate from our school system, but I know for certain that this girl will graduate -- she is an intelligent and motivated student, her parents are both college graduates, and her older siblings are all in college right now. BUT according to the rules, she is now and will forever be counted as a drop-out in our school system.

Fair? No way.

Also, a kid who messes up in 9th grade but then gets his act together, or a girl who has a baby in high school but comes back and finishes school -- you know what I'm saying: kids who finish school but who can't quite do it in four years -- are counted as drop outs.

Honest? Not nearly.

My point: Don't be too quick to believe the statistics that're circulated about public schools. The media isn't our friend. Yes, we have big problems, but they aren't really the problems that the media would have you believe we have!

 

[Leajess99]

It's obviously cheating for people to declare residency at their aunt's house, or for kids to get an apartment in their college state so they can qualify for residency (because in those very common get-in-state-tuition scenerios, the state isn't really getting the tax money that's lowering the tuition bill), but YOU have a legitimate gripe! You really did pay taxes in Michigan.

I only left Michigan as I joined the military and then when I became a single parent because the Army sent my husband to Korea and my to Ky, my mom moved here to help me with my son as the military requires a family care plan in place for single parents/dual military. It was nice to have someone here to take care of my son was he was sick or injured and this way I did not have to risk being in trouble at work since daycares won't watch sick kids. I just stayed here after getting out since my mom was here now. Still looking at the waivers but I can say my son does have a benefit that many kids don't have due to my being rated 100% disabled by VA. His tuition is paid for but I would like to save money still.

 

[Anne34]

My son is looking at 2 schools right now. One is back home in Michigan (Go Spartans!!!) and the other is here in Ky (Boo Cats!!!). The college in michigan is $28,000 a year and I am not sure what the Ky college costs are yet. He came home all excited today because he is a minority student with a 3.0 or high GPA and as such he qualifies to have his application fee waved and they are doing a campus visit from his school later this month just for the minority students. It was interesting to find this out today but I would so rather send him back to Michigan for school.

As for the original question, I know the difference is because of the taxes. I just wish Michigan would wave the out of state part since I did pay taxes for years there as did my mom and my family still does. Still trying to see if there are any waivers he could qualify for.

My daughter looked at a couple schools in Michigan and they offered in-state tuition if you stayed the summer after freshman year and worked in Michigan. They would then consider you an in-state resident since you were there for a year. Something to keep in mind.