Why is America out of work?

[EMom]

Where is any information to back up your statements above?? How do you know this is always how it is handled. I have been quiet so far in this thread but your statements above made my blood boil. How do you know that the people working in the fields are immigrants? How do you know its a "recent development"? How do you know that they are making less than minimum wage? How do you know the farmers are unwilling to pay them more????

I work in a program that deals with the migrant population from Mexico, and many of these families are actually making more money than I am at the center. How do I know? I KNOW THE PEOPLE AND THE FARMERS AND THE FAMILIES!!!! They make fair wages, and the farmer hire them for their work ethics - they never call off sick and are willing to work in all weather conditions. They are willing to work overtime as the weather allows. This "recent development" you talk of is also bull because the center I work at has been working with these families since the early 70's - the migrant workers have been coming to work in our country since that time, and even before. And they must be legal citizens to recieve aid from our center - they must provide their papers/green card, etc. So before making judgement calls, please check your information.

I don't know what can solve the lack of jobs for the degreed American population, and I know we are in a bad state of economy at this time. I agree there needs to be more jobs. However, this whole thread is beginning to sound awfully racist and judgemental against Hispanic people in general and its really making me very angry.

I'm going to unsubscribe after this, I don't need to read any more of this crap, started by an OP who just wants to stir the pot.

The worst racism of all is the racism in Mexico which results in such horrendous living conditions for the lower classes (almost always of non-European descent) that they flee their home country to make a living in the US. But let's not talk about that racism. No, let's call people who oppose illegal immigration "racists" even when they are fully supportive of people who have come to this country LEGALLY.....and that includes Mexicans who came here legally. It is a smokescreen to make those opposed to illegal immigration afraid to speak out for fear of being labeled racists. Yell "RACIST" long and hard enough and maybe they'll shut up because no one wants to be called that. Well, it has NOTHING to do with race and EVERYTHING to do with ignoring the US border and entering this country illegally. I mainly discuss those from Mexico because as a Texan, that is the country that most impacts my state. However, that is not true of every state. My BIL lives in another state and says that a large percentage of the illegal immigrants there are from Eastern Europe. Russian.....and every country that used to be part of the USSR, it seems. Hmmmm......Can't use "racist" when they're White too...... What to do? What to do?

As to many your questions, (where to start?) Colleen27's summary in post #71 is an excellent one. There are many financial advantages to employers to hire illegal aliens, in addition the them accepting lower wages. In fact, even if they will work for exactly the same wages as a citizen (and that includes Hispanic citizens) it is financially beneficial to many employers to hire them instead. The hidden savings is enormous.

 

[EMom]

There are TONS of immigrants who join the Army (or other military forces) and are sent to a school, (similar to the one the Army sent me to, to learn Chinese) where they learn enough English to get by and then they spend several years in service to this country in return for citizenship. It's one of the quickest ways to become a citizen actually! And there are MANY who do this; so it's quite possible that you are treating a veteran with such disdain. Just remember that the next time you look at some one with brown skin and assume they 1) can't speak English 2) aren't a citizen 3) aren't intelligent.

I have known a fair number of people who became citizens in just this way. As far as I am concerned, if they are willing to join the service and put their lives on the line to protect the US, then fair enough......That should qualify them for citizenship.

 

[DisneyJules]

This great nation of ours was built by immigrants. Unless you are Native American, you to were descended from immigrants. One of the founding ideals of this country has been equal opportunity for all. Jobs are awarded based on economics, and skill, not on citizenship. This free market system is one of the things that has made our country great. Sacrificing it by granting preference to one group of people over others would weaken our country and it's future.

Totally agree. Put Americans back to work?
Um, last I checked, once someone immigrates to the United States, they are considered an "American." As they would be Canadians once they've immigrated here to Canada and deserve a job just as much as myself, who was born in this country.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

A college diploma is not a guarantee of employment even in a SPLENDID economy.

It's your hook--but it's not the sale and if you resume is reading poorly--then it is going to be a problem regardless of what degree you have.

My DH was laid off in Nov (job ended oct 31), he did get a job in Dec necessitating a move. His resume was critiqued, he made a slight presentation modification and it was fine. He assisted other co-workers all laid off and all but one are now employed. The one--his resume is so overinflated (truthful--but holy moses, wayyyy too much stuff on it) and he cut it down a little, but it makes it difficult for him to interview for "ANY" position when it is clear by his resume that his experience, credentials and thus possible salary expectations make him a high candidate for a departure risks. So companies won't waste their energy on him.

Blaming "hot topic" issues for your inability to get a job--won't help you get a job in any economy.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

The "they're just doing jobs Americans won't do" folks HATE it when you bring up true stories like this. It blows their argument out of the water.

I simply cannot believe how many Americans have bought into that line of horse manure. They fail to realize that by allowing uncontrolled illegal immigration all these years, we have effectively created an enormous group of Americans who (since they are not qualified for higher paying jobs for a variety of reasons) cannot compete with illegals for the lower paying jobs.....and that leaves them depending on the government (or turning to crime) for money. For years and years and years, all those jobs were in fact held by Americans. It is a recent development that they are no longer getting those jobs. There is one reason only. And it's not because they won't do them. Sure, a few here and there won't work, but there are plenty of others who would happily take the jobs.

Those Americans were on the bottom rungs of the employment ladder in the US and illegal immigration has yanked those rungs right out of their grasp. If you listen to who makes the "Americans won't do those jobs" statements, most often you will find someone who is paying an illegal alien's salary and is unwilling to pay a few bucks more to an American. They are looking out for their bank account and insulting the work ethic of others to do so.

That argument has always bothered me.

Essentially it is an endorsement of slave labor in some areas b/c the employees are often paid under the table b/c to pay them on the up and up would require minimum wage.

And how noble of us Americans wanting to save the toilet scrubbing, apple picking, dirty work for the immigrants. Way to pass on that American Dream. (She posts with *sarcasm*.)

 

[EMom]

Totally agree. Put Americans back to work?
Um, last I checked, once someone immigrates to the United States, they are considered an "American." As they would be Canadians once they've immigrated here to Canada and deserve a job just as much as myself, who was born in this country.

Just going to the USA does not make you an American, no more than going to Canada makes you a Canadian. I lived in Australia for a while, but I cannot claim to be Australian and couldn't even if I'd stayed there the entire time. My Australian friends lived in both Canada and Norway.....but they're not Canadian or Norwegian......just Aussies. The key is to come to the country LEGALLY, a point missed by many. Sneaking in and managing to break the law for decades does not make you an American. It makes you a sneaky lawbreaker. And it's an insult to those who are working at becoming citizens the legal way.

 

[DisneyJules]

Just going to the USA does not make you an American, no more than going to Canada makes you a Canadian. I lived in Australia for a while, but I cannot claim to be Australian and couldn't even if I'd stayed there the entire time. My Australian friends lived in both Canada and Norway.....but they're not Canadian or Norwegian......just Aussies. The key is to come to the country LEGALLY, a point missed by many. Sneaking in and managing to break the law for decades does not make you an American. It makes you a sneaky lawbreaker. And it's an insult to those who are working at becoming citizens the legal way.

I'm not talking about those who have entered the country illegally but those who have legally immigrated the the US. In my last post I had clearly stated "legally immigrated." I didn't state anywhere that "going to the US" made you an American. The OP said that these people were non english speaking workers, that doesn't automatically mean they have illegally entered the country.

 

[bumbershoot]

I don't know if this has been said, definitely not going to read through all the pages... BUT, just b/c someone doesn't speak English does NOT mean that they aren't an American citizen! My own grandmother is from Nicaragua, she sought asylum here during some civil war, or something, in her own country. Even though she has been a citizen for YEARS, decades.... she still has a VERY heavy accent and will choose to speak in Spanish if it is an option.


And FYI, our country does not have an "official" language. There is no rule that says everyone has to speak English to live here. There is also no such thing as an "American" language; so you can't say, "They should have to learn our language to come/work/live here. Americans are the most monolingual country in the World, we should really step it up a notch in that department b/c the rest of the World puts us to shame...

All very true! MIL didn't become a citizen for years, because she needed the ability to run FAST from her husband. She never took that opportunity, because he kept threatening her chances of ever seeing her children again, but she wanted it as an escape route. About 2 years before he died (we think of it as "once he got too old to have affairs or beat her"), which was about 5 years ago now, she took the test and became a citizen.

She doesn't speak English well at all, and it's getting worse now that FIL isn't there. She lives in a Korean-populated town, hires Koreans to help her, and really only speaks English with her family. And even that isn't total, b/c her oldest son's first language was Korean so that's what they speak, and I know that DH and my sister in law speak "Konglish" when they are alone with her (took a few years for DH to stop speaking only Korean when I'm around b/c I don't understand it at all, sadly). So she gets no practice.

But she has lived here for nearly 40 years, and is a legal citizen.

Just going to the USA does not make you an American, no more than going to Canada makes you a Canadian.

Help ya out here...the poster you were replying to was (incredibly obviously) using "immigrate" to mean "move here legally".



I hate hate hate hate that so many here are just going along with the OP's assertion or theory that the people working the road crew are illegal. And that everyone working a job like picking berries, building houses, etc has moved here illegally. It's driving me crazy, actually.

The poster who talked about the jobs at the racetrack KNOWS what they make there, but still another poster basically said "oh that's what they would say". It's bizarre. The poster knows the weekly pay. And it's a racetrack where there are going to be official type people there (I'm assuming there's gambling there or a tote?) often...I'm sure they have themselves legally covered.


Then again, I don't get up in arms about any sort of immigration. After all, I was a heartbeat away from being an illegal immigrant to Ireland back in '96 or so. I was just too chicken!

 

[EMom]

Help ya out here...the poster you were replying to was (incredibly obviously) using "immigrate" to mean "move here legally".

Sorry, but it wasn't that obvious. There are PLENTY of people who believe even illegal immigrants ought to be considered Americans. There is a segment of society that seems to figure the illegals have "earned" de facto citizenship and are Americans as much as anyone else. Of them they say, "They've lived here, worked here, have kids here.....If that doesn't make you an American, what does?" Sort of the "We were all immigrants once" sort of thinking that minimizes the value of nitpicky details like legalities being met.

For all I knew, the poster I referenced was one of those. They did not specify LEGAL immigration instead of illegal immigration and I'm afraid in a discussion such as this, one must differentiate between the two. I see a huge difference between the two methods of entry, but many do not. I could not assume the poster did.

 

[Amy8888]

This not politcal and not racist at all mods,so please listen.

Why is it that all the road work done lately is from peeps that don't even speak english.I have A collage education,and these companys will not even give me A interview for employment!!!

I know I will be giving points and not be able to post if the mods see it the wrong way.I just want too say,put American's to work first!!!!!

Seriously? I thought this post was a joke, like some email message you received, pointing out the irony of someone complaining that people who don't even speak English have jobs while you do not. But then you came back and defended yourself, so I guess the joke's on me!

Also, I don't see how you can think this is not racist. You can't just negate the something by saying it's not what it is.

 

[brerrabbit]

I find this whole discussion somewhat humorous. Employment opportunities are difficult at best currently. A college degree in no way guarentees a job. The reason that so many road workers appear to be "different" is because guess what? They are. They are people who are willing to do that job and despite their appearance they are more qualified to do what they do than most college graduates will ever be. They have generally been working those jobs for quite sometime and have years of experience.

The problem today is the idea of entitlement. We have preached to our kids for years and years you have to go to college to get a good job when the reality is you have to make good grades, go to college and get a relevant degree in an area that is what employers are looking for at the time you graduate. Otherwise you have to pick a field, start at the bottom, and start working your way up the ladder.

McDonalds won't hire college graduates simply because they know that you will leave very quickly after starting because 1) you will find another job, or 2) you will determine it is beneath you the first couple of days and quit. McDonalds will never pay much more than minimum wage because the job is not worth anymore than that. The supply of people with the skills to work there is almost endless so to them its not worth much and never will be.

As far as the literacy of our students, that is nothing new at all. I graduated from college in 1981 and when I entered in 1977 as part of the SAT test there was an imbedded english proficiency test. I think you had to score 30 or better on it and if you did not then you were forced to take a remedial English course at most colleges at the time. As I was graduating in 1981 I had two friends who were suppose to graduate then as well. They had fufilled all their requirements including the College level English requirements save one. The remedial English course. Niether one could pass it. One was one course short of their degree, one in Mechanical Engineering, and one in Accounting. Somehow they both finally made it (the engineer got a Provost of the school to sign a waiver for him) the other had to stay on for another semester.

So finding a job is tough, I know my son (a college graduate) is currently unemployed, and keeping a job is even harder. My company is outsourcing all finance jobs overseas. I have seen countless friends and coworkers loose their jobs and they have been unable to get new ones. They get severence and qualify for their retirement packages but don't want to start collecting them for 10 years and are struggling to make it that far.

The bottom line is complaining about how unfair it is that some have jobs while others don't will not get you one. Further the chances are that the guys working on the roads are more qualified in their field than you are in yours. Add in the fact that since the road jobs are all government funded, I can almost guarentee you that the workers are all US citizens because those construction firms are not going to risk their contracts on undocumented workers. It just seems easier to blame your situation on something, or someone, other than yourself.

 

[EMom]

Add in the fact that since the road jobs are all government funded, I can almost guarentee you that the workers are all US citizens because those construction firms are not going to risk their contracts on undocumented workers. It just seems easier to blame your situation on something, or someone, other than yourself.

The companies who win the government contracts get around this (only hiring citizens) by subcontracting, among other methods. It is far from guaranteed that workers out there building/repairing roads are citizens.