Why I Should Not Join??

[BC]

I am a die hard Disney NUT and I thought (before this post) that the DVC was something I had to have. We just returned from the Boardwalk villas and LOVED it. My husband is the hesitant one and he even listened to the spill and is somewhat convinced to buy in. However, after all these posts, it seems unless we want to stay at a DVC resort every year,we may be wasting our money. Also, I loved the Boardwalk because of all the action and the location. I know it is sold out and the next best thing would be the Beach Club villas. However, the girl we spoke with said there would not be any wonderful views from there. It appears they will face Epcot and the parking lot of the Beach club. If I will have a problem staying at the Boardwalk, I don't think I would be pleased. Does anyone know if there are a certain number of rooms alloted for cash paying customers and a certain number for DVC members. If so, I might have a better chance of staying there if I just pay cash. We got a great rate this time with one of the codes posted on Mousesavers. When you add in the annual fees, I may have paid about the same this trip as I would have if I were a member.

 

[RobDoc]

Does anyone know if there are a certain number of rooms alloted for cash paying customers and a certain number for DVC members.

DVC holds about 4% of the room inventory, which it uses to allow for refurbishing of the rooms. Any of these rooms not being rehabbed may be rented by Disney. The remainder (once a DVC resort is sold) are owned by the members and will not be available for cash rental unless members choose to exchange to other WDW resorts or use points for things like the cruise. Rooms still unreserved by members 60 days ahead are also available for cash reservations.

Members may also rent reservations to others.

If you want to stay at non-DVC resorts, then DVC membership may not fit your needs. If you enjoy staying at DVC resorts, membership may be the best means to accomplish that.

The current economy has created an unusual availability for rooms all over WDW, including the DVC resorts. There have been many discounts offered to try to fill the rooms. However, that situation is unlikely to continue once the economy returns to normal.

Good luck with your decision!

 

[Laurajean1014]

Please see "Why so negative" thread!

 

[Jison]

I am going to be VERY honest. We bought in 1993, had passes to the parks for 7 years and have used the heck out of the DVC. We love Disney and it was a great deal for us. BUT.....it is 2001, the points are too expensive in my opinion and they are only good until 2042. I would not spend the money today to buy again.

We have 591 points and use them every year and sometimes borrow. My Mom has 380 and we use her points too. Our original points were paid off in 3 years and all the add-ons are paid off too.

We do use our points to cruise and we only go to Disney during Easter and Christmas week so there are very few discounts. PLUS with 4 kids, we needed two rooms and so we ALWAYS get a two bedroom.

I hope I didn't offend anyone. It is JMHO.

 

[Disney Doll]

I'm not sure what all this 37% increase business is and all the negativity, but I can tell you that DH and I have owned DVC since 1997, and couldn't be more pleased!!! We have always enjoyed staying in the DVC properties (have been to OKW...our home resort...numerous times,as well as BWV several times)and have never had a problem with getting reservations, have always gotten exactly what we asked for, and been very pleased with the property, service etc. I do not feel that we have been lied to in any way. We didn't buy the DVC with the intention of using the points to stay at other WDW resorts...we understood up front, based on the materials provided, that the best use of points was at a DVC property. Once, we used points to stay at a non-DVC property, understanding full well that it was not the most effective use of points, but it was a special occasion, and we wanted to stay at The Plaza Hotal in Manhattan, so we did. When I read the DVC materials, I do not rerad "flexibilty" as "best use of points". I read flexibilty as"you can do this, but your points would be better used staying at a DVC resort". And guess what!!!!There's no hotel that can outdo a DVC,IMO..and that is MY opinion, so don't a million people start to flame me!!!!

The bottom line is, if you don't think you're always going to enjoy staying at DVC properties, then buying into the DVC is probably not the best option for you. Personally, I am very contented at the BWV, or OKW, and I'm sure I will be just as pleased with WLV(we'll be there in October) and BCV.

 

[one_cat]

BC, have you thought of buying a resale if you are sold on BWV?

 

[prplcrzy]

Hey Dave,

First off I don't remember calling you stupid, and if you get that impression from my posts I sincerely apologize. Secondly, my posts are not meant to scold, but rather put a realistic light on the situation. From your posts and descriptions, it sounds like DVC is not for you. If you can only go during a certain time of the year, and that time seems to be the most popular, these things can happen. It really sounds like you should have purchased a timeshare with a guaranteed week so that you can go when you can go.

They didn't take away your ability to use the flexible option, they just made it more expensive (we'll actually see when the new point charts come out) for you to use. I'm truly sorry that this struck a sour chord with you but I do still have my marketing materials and nothing in there says that they provide this as part of the program, but rather an option that you can use. If your guide presented the program and made it sound like there would be no changes in the options, then you really should either take it up with them or their supervisor. My guide did not present it that way and from reading quite a few of the other posts, it sounds like she was not the only one who presented it in the proper light.

I do really feel for you, but the tone of the posts of the negative people being upset over something that is not even released yet seems to me to be jumping the gun. No one has even seen these charts yet, how can anyone form an opinion that DVC is out to make flexible vacationing impossible.

I still do not understand how you think the program is not flexible and I probably never will. I really think that we will have to agree to disagree. I have read some really positive posts on these boards and tend to agree wholeheartedly that this is a great program, if they decide to change it that it their right. If you have read my posts you will see that if the increases are real, then I am not happy about the cost going up but there is nothing that I can do but sell if I think that it is not right.

I don't think that increases in the pricing of anything enhances its value at all, I'm just saying that from what i've heard this is not a blanket increase but an adjustment. Some went up and some went down. If it were a blanket increase, I think that those that relied on this option should be disappointed, but since it is an option and not the actual timeshare that you bought I will never understand how anyone can be upset.

Dave, I truly hope that these increases are minimal and that during the time you wish to use goes down. If it doesn't I really feel bad that this happened to you and everyone else that relied on this option. But I just don't see how the flexibility changed, that's all.

 

[prplcrzy]

deerh, I think you misunderstood my question or I didn't present it so that yo uwould understand it. I was curious if the percentage that the points went up for the cruise went up as much as the percentage the cash cost went up. I didn't mean to suggest that you should pay cash for your trip. I was wondering if it was getting more expensive for cash customers to go or DVC owners.

 

[deerh]

eerh, I think you misunderstood my question or I didn't present it so that yo uwould understand it. I was curious if the percentage that the points went up for the cruise went up as much as the percentage the cash cost went up. I didn't mean to suggest that you should pay cash for your trip. I was wondering if it was getting more expensive for cash customers to go or DVC owners.

Good question prplcrzy! The cat 6 verandah (comparing apples to apples) is going up 8 pts\yr, 7day. I don't know if this is comparable to cash, but it would cost 454+78 (1 child)=532 pts for a 7 day cruise,so based on $10 per pt, that is $5320. Now I have 1 other child pay cash, and I am guessing $800, so,$6100 for a 7 day cruise. Not bad and I am looking at 2004, 3 years from now, so I believe that is a good deal. Remember-FOOD IS INCLUDED, so I still disagree that pts are NOT a good value for the cruise. JMHO, and the cost now for 2003 on the DCL site is $5500 or so, and that is only for 2003. So is it a good deal? Who knows? Prices could go up, after all DCL is the hottest thing right now, they fill up the ships, so I doubt discounts are available. By the way, the prices I quote are prime time summer, not value season. Only you can decide if it is a deal or not........
deerh

 

[prplcrzy]

I have never done a cruise before, are the DCL more expensive than other cruises, and if so would you know how much more and is it worth it?

 

[Jison]

I can answer your question. We have gone on two Disney Cruises, one 4 day and one 7 day. We used points for all 8 of us. My parents, my kids and us. The 7 day we did pay cash for one kid. These cruises were during spring break.

Next spring we are going on RCCL on the Voyager. It is costing us $6000 total for 8 of us in two inside cabins during Easter week.
DCL was 5400 for each cabin. DO the math. DCL was a lot more expensive. NOW.......I am not sure if they always are, but next Easter they sure are. We all wanted something different after being on both the Magic and the Wonder.

 

[Deb & Bill]

We've been members since '97. We've stayed at OKW 4 times, BWV one time, VB one time. We have two more trips to OKW planned. Plus a 4 day cruise in Nov and 4 nights at OKW. We've gone at Christmas time, early Dec, Thanksgiving, early summer - all on points. We will be going at Spring Break instead of early June since our hospital will be having our three year inspection during the summer. We work all our trips around our son's school year and our jobs. We plan to go back to VB for a few nights in '03. We were looking at Hawaii, but the airfare will be a bit too much for us. Maybe later.

We have all the flexibility we need. We might throw in a night or two at another resort on AP rates or DC rates. Or we might use our points later on.

We love DVC.

 

[msdis]

Only one reason not to join.....if you do not already suffer from ocd before you join DVC, you will after. Just ask my DH. He has lost his wife, his cook, his housekeeper, his companion. But he has gained a DVC and Disney expert.

 

[Goofyfooter]

I'm troubled by some of the replies I'm been reading. In other words, if anyone is unhappy with DVC, one should sell his/her interests immediately. No one has the right to complain or give feedback. Is that it? Unlike DVCDAVE, I'm very happy with my interests in DVC. In fact, I always encourage other Disney fans to buy; however, I don't expect everyone to be happy with DVC. More importantly, I'm interested in the nature of people's complaint. In DVCDAVE's case, there is one valid point...lack of fairness in restricting pool hopping to AKL (since I've never tried, I'll take his word for it). I don't enjoy swimming much, so this probably won't affect me, but that is precisely the reason why he deserves my support. We can't all wait for things to affect us before complaining. What if they start charging members for parking? I don't drive at WDW, but I would like the freedom to choose without being penalized. What if they start charging for monorail usuage? What if they take away your favorite privilege at WDW? Remember, you give them an inch and they'll take a mile.

 

[DVCDAVE]

GOOFYFOOTER, et. al. Let me clarify a little. It isn't that I don't like or enjoy my DVC, what I don't like is Disney's handeling of the program. In the 50 weeks I have been a member Disney has set a pattern of behavior which, in MY OPINION, is disturbing.

First, yes the legal language in the documents does provide them with the legal authority to do what they want with the program. However, the marketing material sets another tone.

In the last 50 weeks, we have seen pool hopping, which is a perk, NOT allowed at AKL. Second, they arised the points needed to book a cruise on DCL (again I understand it is a privlage to cruise on DCL). Now, they are going to raise the point requirements on the DC.

It has been, to say the least, a disturbing year for this household as we quietly sit by and watch many of our perks and privlages vanish along with future vacation plans. It is also easy to predict that in the foreseable future all we will have left is our home resort, and not musch more.

I am certain that the only reason DVC was even allowed to cruise on DCL is that Disney feared empty ships and the negative press and shareholder outrage of another Disney failure. Now that DCL is starting to stand on its own two feet DVC will probably see even more restrictions and changes applied to that program too. Clearly DVC is being used to insure DCLs success, and then we will be tossed aside once Disney has lined its pockets and the press and media isn't looking. Based on the reactions on this board in the last week, hardly a whimper will be made. Those complaining will simply be pointed to the legal doc's stating Disney's right to terminate DCL. (and they will be right) Those complaining will be told to sit down and accept it. I say we should stand together in defense of what we have before it is all gone.

As far as pool hopping at SAB, is there anyone out there who believes that they will still be able to hop there after the BCVs open ? I think we can forget it ! Everyone just sat around quietly when AKL opened with a ban on pool hopping for us, and hardly a peep was said on this board.

Yes, I have been vocal about the upcoming changes in the DC. It has been an important feature that this family was sold on. It happens to be a key safety feature that offered a REASONABLY AFFORDABLE alternative (in points) should our home resort be booked solid. We, like many, many families in this program have school aged children. As anone that is, or has been in our situation realizes, we vacation when the schools vacation. Guess what ?, it shouldn't surprise anyone that those times are peak season with low vacancy rates, and high demand for DVC rooms.

Earlier, PRPLCRZY posted that maybe we should have bought a timeshare with a 'fixed week'. Well, the reason we didn't was 1) that really doesn't help as school vacations float with the holidays, and kids change schools as they progress. 2) flexibility and affordability were splattered throughout the marketing material. Yes, I do believe that the flexibility IS deminished if the point requirements are raised. We, like everyone bought our points based on our needs and requirements, now Disney is changing the requirements on this facet of the program. Our points are not infinite.

In conclusion, I would recomend that anyone looking at buying in to this program also look in to Disney's past behavior too. They don't tell you about the DVC changes in the marketing material, and gloss over it when asked. Second, I may be vocal now, but you will be too when your favorite facet is changed or restricted too, and its coming. (unless we all act in conjunction with one another to protect each others interests in this program.)

I could only imagine how fast Disney would back down if everyone's energys were directed at them, rather than me and others who feel as I do concerning these changes in the DC.

 

[Joeblack]

I am very happy with DVC. Just added-on at WLV and probably will add-on at BCV. However, I agree with DVCDAVE. Being passive about so many downgrades in our privileges will only give Disney free way to do whatever it pleases. Yeah, I know they still will do whatever they please because all the legal stuff is covered, but I also beleive that there must be a parallel between what is marketed and what is actually offered. I don't appreciate when the rules of the game are changed in the middle of the game without even a warning.

I won't bad-mouth Disney because I believe they are a very efficient company and DVC gives an incredible value to its owners. However, I don't think we should just ask "how high" when Disney says JUMP!! especially when we were sold a smooth ride.

If people are not happy about something that affects them, they should be able to voice it here in the forums for prospective buyers to learn it all before taking the plunge. Selling your points is not an answer for an unsatisfied customer. People who are not happy about their Firestone wheels on their Ford Explorers should not be told to just "sell your car and forget about it"

 

[DVCDAVE]

Thank You JOEBLACK, I have followed your posts over the last year, and I respect your opinion and viewpoints. You always have something to add.

 

[JonHM]

Hi Dave, a few comments:

First of all, you make one pro-DVC argument concerning flexibility yourself. You say that the reason that you bought it instead of a traditional timeshare is that you could flex your vacations around your kid's school holidays. To me, that is a *significant* flexibility benefit.

You have some valid things to be upset about *but* are also getting upset about a lot of stuff based on speculation. You repeatedly talk about not being able to book anywhere other than one's home resort, but I just don't see that happening. First of all, as has been pointed out, the new points schedules for the DC have not come out yet, so we don't yet know how much that benefit has been lessened. But let's put DC aside for a moment, and talk about DVC resorts. What reasons do you have to think that we will eventually be trapped booking only at our home resort? What trend have you seen in this direction? To me, the fact that we can book on points very reasonably at OKW, BWV and VWL, AND the soon to be built BCV AND ECV (?) provides quite a LOT of flexibility. My point is not even if the DC increases ARE worst case, which it does not look like they will be, from examples posted here since the initial posts, even if that is true, there is still a LOT of flexibility that is built into the program AND guaranteed (DVC points schedules for DVC resorts) - to me the rest of the programs offering additional flexibility (like DC) are just gravy. I'm really happy they're there, but that's a bonus that they are, not part of the core program.

Part of this is also a glass half empty/ half full thing. To me, when they offer us fantastic benefits for a few years, that's fantastic, as with DCL when it was starting up. Sure, they used the established base of the DVC to help get the DCL on it's feet, but it was a benefit, not a right. They could have gone it on their own, with no sort of discounted ability for DVCers to cruise at any point. But here we have had this benefit offered for years. It's the same with DC. You are upset that they are raising the points/night (even though it is not clear how much yet), and my reaction is WOW! 10 years without any increases! What a fantastic benefit that was! Would you have been happier if they had been raising the rates 8% every year since 1991? They would have been consistent, but points/night would be a lot higher now than they are going to be next year. YES, you have acknowleged that your dissatisfaction is 'your opinion', but you posted it in such a way that a new person, looking for objective advice, is getting told that DVC will only 'lie' to them. Look, clearly you're upset about the coming increases in the DC, and understandably so, but I think that your initial posts about Disney habitually 'lying' are overly harsh and also inappropriate in response to a new prospective person. And I am NOT saying that you shouldn't say anything negative. Everyone has a perfect right to complain about anything that they're not happy with. But she doesn't understand (although she may by now) the context of what you're complaining about, all she's reading is that you're writing that Disney has habitually lied to you.

The way I view it, the only 'sure thing' we have in DVC is the DVC resorts themselves. I am completely convinced that we will *always* have other options and benefits available to us, BUT those benefits are going to change over time. Some old benefits will disappear, and other new ones will emerge. But it is all centered around the core, 'guaranteed' portion of the program, which is the DVC resorts themselves.

I absolutely agree with you that EVERYONE who belongs to DVC who is upset about the point increases for DC (once the schedule comes out) should run straight to DVC and give them an earfull. You are absolutely correct that people who are dissatisfied need to express that to Disney.

 

[prplcrzy]

Dave,

I have a question, if you realize that it is a privilage to use the DCL and DC, how can you possibly be upset because they increased the cost on something that is a privilage and they didn't have to do for you in the first place?

Your length of time as a member is 50 weeks, I'll call it one year to simplify. I have been a member for a few years now and I do not see any pattern of lying to us, or restricting our membership. There have been a few small changes to the entire thing most of them affecting privilages they give you, not rights you have.

I see no concrete examples of how they took something away from us, just that they adjusted the offerings so they could make it work for all of us, not just you and a few others.

You have mentioned the pool hopping at AKL, didn't they restrict all visitors from the AKL unless you were staying there? I think they will lift the ban on pool hopping there once the newness has worn off, but until then they have the right to insure that the paying guests who have paid their hard earned cash to stay at that resort (since it is not a DVC resort) can enjoy themselves and not have their experince ruined by the tons of people who want to go over and gawk and the new resort. I really don't think this will be a ban forever.

A privilage is just that, and if it means that the people who want to use it have to pay more points to do so rather than increasing my dues and everyone elses dues that don't use it, why should I pay for something that you want to use? If you want to use it that's great but I don't want to have to pay for your enjoyment of a privilage that they don't even have to offer in the first place.

As for the parking perk, it has been eliminted for everyone, all resort guests, except DVC members at DVC resorts. How can you possibly be upset at them for making an exception for you, me and the other members of the DVC? It seems to me that they have been still making exceptions for us. No other resort guest, the cash paying ones, have an exception like that.

Dave, I hope you remain a member for a few years so that you can develop a better understanding of the timeshare you bought, then I think you will be much happier with the money you spent, and will have the realization that most of the rest of us do that they are-

1) a business

2) trying to make the programs work with out raising the costs for everyone

3) not trying to make your experience miserable, but trying to make the experiences of everyone better

I don't care what business you run, you can't make everyone happy all of the time. This seems like one of those times.

 

[Dancind]

I think maybe this thread should have stopped with Granny's post. All the really compelling reasons not to buy into DVC were listed right there. Some of the other posts have been vents from folks who are currently upset about an aspect of the program they don't feel should have changed, even though there were no promises that it wouldn't. Fine to be upset and want to vent, but how about starting your own thread? What you're doing here is discouraging someone from buying who may have been very happy with their DVC membership by making it seem controversial , unorganized, and possibly devious. Disney lies? Really? Prove it. Facts please, not emotions and extrapolation.