Why dont people plan?

[shh]

Basically, Disney has taught me how to plan a successful vacation. I think my whole family has benefited because of it. No matter where we go, I'll plan it like a Disney trip.

This is so true. After 25 years of planning WDW trips, every non-WDW vacation since has been waaay better thanks to the experience. My husband (who is not a planner) is always amazed and impressed at all the fun, off the beaten path tours and experiences we enjoy, the value we get for the money and how smoothly complex logistics come together. He thinks I'm incredibly talented and should be a travel agent for a living.

WDW is the boot camp and basic training of vacation planning...times 10.

 

[ellie05]

I really don't think they are. The French Laundry takes reservations in advance, two months to the day--not 180 days in advance. A seat for dinner at BoG or Ohana requires more advanced planning. El Bulli opened up its books in October for its season beginning in May. That is about on par with CRT. One can do "same day" viewing at the Academia, but the smart folks book a time slot in advance. Otherwise the wait time for the "standby" line is about the same as TSMM at 11:00 a.m.. Not many pop/rock concerts sell tickets 6 months in advance. Really, truly, honestly, people wait in lines to see The David that are about the same or shorter than TSMM. Really, truly, honestly, getting a table at the French Laundry is about on par with some at WDW.

The issue here is first timers. Not many would expect these experiences to be on par with one another. Disney sets itself up for disappointment by not warning people of this fact. They tell you that you could book your Anna and Elsa FP (back when they had them) 60 days in advance. But none of their literature warned you that you really needed to.

I don't think that people are saying that there shouldn't be any advanced planning. I think people are saying that the elongated timeframes at Disney World arecord a bit extreme. I have been going to Disney World since the dinner reservations were not available, were available 30 days in advance, 60 days in advance 90 in advance, and 180 days in advance. Nothing has really changed throughout all that time other than the lead time in advance that I need to start my planning. Of course there would still be a rush to the computer and phone lines if reservation began 60 days in advance. I just think that if people start booking 60 days instead of 180 days there is less stress about pre-planning. Same with FPs. The lead time could shrink from 60/30 to 14/7 with no ill effects for the guest. It is Disney that demands that we "lock it in" so far in advance. No guest ever demanded that sort of lead time.

Disney doesn't set itself for a disappointment those guest do. Regardless if Disney move their ADR window to 30,60,90 days these people that didn't plan wouldn't know when to call or that if they didn't call first thing in the morning the hard to get ADRs are gone. So it end up with the same results that it all boils down to personal responsibility. There are plenty of ADRs to be had 60-30 days in advance might not be CRT but it is somewhere to eat. As well as plenty of FP to have 7 days in advance.

The fact that those restaurants fill up months in adavance when there is many more restaurants to pick from (vs restaurants at WDW ), shows the demand. When you have a controlled environment like at WDW the demand is higher because there are very limited options. That is with everything that is limited. Why do people camp out for a new iPhone or Black Friday deals? Because they know there is a limit. When people walk in at noon the day of the iPhone launch and find out they are sold out they can be disappointed all the want, but that doesn't change the fact that they can only blame themselves. People love to find someone to blame instead of holding themselves accountable. Yelling at CM because they have to wait in line and because they don't have ADRs at CRT is just ridiculous and a great sense of entitlement.

I like that I don't have to "stress" about getting FP a week before I leave. I can get that time to focus on packing and tying the loose ends at home before the trip. Knowing that everything for our trip is already taking care of.

 

[Maistre Gracey]

I will say this about planning... It is extremely important to know where the closest bar is, it's closing time, opening time, the beer & wine selection, as well as a couple back up bars in case there's an issue with your primary.

MG

 

[Skywise]

This is so true. After 25 years of planning WDW trips, every non-WDW vacation since has been waaay better thanks to the experience.

Oh yeah - I've got a group of friends that I go out to Vegas with about once a year. After a little "Disney Vacation Planning" training I started applying some of the same techniques to the Vegas trips and suddenly started getting front row seats to shows and dining reservations even just weeks in advance because I'm so used now to having to start thinking in terms of MONTHS in advance! for instance we went to see the Ka Cirque show at the MGM and about 2 months before I started looking at tickets. Front row seats for Ka are considered "tier 2" (out of 3 pricing tiers) because you really want to be middle of the theater for that. So this is just 2 months (really 7 weeks or closer to a month and a half) before the trip and I start booking tickets and the theater is almost completely, totally, UNBOOKED and I ended up getting front row seats. (Literally, THE front row)

 

[Nancyg56]

What if you promised your daughter you'd leave the phone in the hotel safe? My husband and I have never had any device we could use in the parks (his Blackberry is awful), so we just don't bother. We basically do exactly what you described. We plan. We book our FP+ and dining ressies, and then within that loose framework, we go with the flow.

We make good use of rope drop, afternoon breaks, park close, and our familiarity with general crowd patterns, and occasional visits to a kiosk. Over the course of a typical vacation we ride everything we want to ride. We never stand in long lines (except when rides break down and we end up accidentally trapped in the queue). Effective planning does not have to involve being glued to your phone while in the parks.

Gotta say, I LOVE park hoppers.

I keep my phone but once we arrive I don't monkey around with what I have in place. We know our FP and our dining. We kind of ding the rest, starting on one dude and then moving from attraction to attraction. If something catches our interest we go for it. I do not use the app to maximize a thing. We miss something? It's gone and we move on. I refuse to be attached to a device.

 

[whiporee]

I really don't think they are. The French Laundry takes reservations in advance, two months to the day--not 180 days in advance. A seat for dinner at BoG or Ohana requires more advanced planning. El Bulli opened up its books in October for its season beginning in May. That is about on par with CRT. One can do "same day" viewing at the Academia, but the smart folks book a time slot in advance. Otherwise the wait time for the "standby" line is about the same as TSMM at 11:00 a.m.. Not many pop/rock concerts sell tickets 6 months in advance. Really, truly, honestly, people wait in lines to see The David that are about the same or shorter than TSMM. Really, truly, honestly, getting a table at the French Laundry is about on par with some at WDW.

The issue here is first timers. Not many would expect these experiences to be on par with one another. Disney sets itself up for disappointment by not warning people of this fact. They tell you that you could book your Anna and Elsa FP (back when they had them) 60 days in advance. But none of their literature warned you that you really needed to.

I don't think that people are saying that there shouldn't be any advanced planning. I think people are saying that the elongated timeframes at Disney World arecord a bit extreme. I have been going to Disney World since the dinner reservations were not available, were available 30 days in advance, 60 days in advance 90 in advance, and 180 days in advance. Nothing has really changed throughout all that time other than the lead time in advance that I need to start my planning. Of course there would still be a rush to the computer and phone lines if reservation began 60 days in advance. I just think that if people start booking 60 days instead of 180 days there is less stress about pre-planning. Same with FPs. The lead time could shrink from 60/30 to 14/7 with no ill effects for the guest. It is Disney that demands that we "lock it in" so far in advance. No guest ever demanded that sort of lead time.

I think the long lead times are because of the 45-day cancellation policy. They're trying to give people the option of getting out before they are too committed if they can't get the reservations they want. Or avoid making flight plans. I don't think it's malice on Disney's part, because I don't think they have an issue with filling the restaurants, but it's to give people as much info as they can give them.

And I don't know how halving the windows helps -- all it does is make it more important you hit your dates. If you can start at 180 out, nothing says you have to. It's just that the opportunity is there. It doesn't go away if you miss a start date. You might not get all you want if you don't strike at earliest availability, but you can still get stuff. And if the stuff you want isn't there, you can keep checking -- a longer window gives you more opportunities. If you tightened the windows, I think the planning stress might turn into panic because you'd get fewer opportunities to get what you might have missed.

 

[Paula Sedley-Burke]

I can understand how this can happen here in the UK if you tried to book a restaurant ( unless a special event ) 180 in advance they would think you were crazy. Our theme parks do not have the technology to do FP+ you just get the luck of the day. Also we have DisneyLand Paris which does not mirror this system. We vacation a lot in Europe before coming over to try WDW and the concept of planning every moment of the day including the meals is quite over whealming! On our first visit I had done some research but still did not comprehend the scale of America. But that was before FP+ and you could get away with it. Now I do plan and read like mad and warn others going you need to do x , y and z. Their jaws drop to the floor!

 

[Raeven]

My guess is people just don't realize you have to plan. I know some people think there's too much far ahead planning involved in Disney, but I think every vacation involves planning or at least looking into what you would be doing in the area. There are some people that just assume they'll figure it out when they get there. (While most vacations don't require Adrs if you want a certain hotel for a popular date or good tickets to a big concert/show you do have to plan in advance).

I went to Disney/Universal for the first time last year and learned about everything I could before went and used multiple resources. I think our vacation went really well, and we had a great time. (And I think Disney does a good job of letting you know when you have to reserve things).

But I do like planning, and plan all our vacations in advance (not just Disney).

On the other side of things my brother wants to go to South Carolina with his girlfriend when I asked what he wanted to do/see/where he's staying/how he'd get there he had 0 answers (and he wants to go next month). Most of it he said they'd figure out eventually.

 

[GermanMom]

To be fair, Disney does send out booklets with all of this info and also emails on the days you are eligible to book dining and fastpasses etc. People just ignore them and then get upset when they think they weren't told. I guess if you aren't staying on site you wouldn't get those, but staying on site there are no excuses.

That's true, but when you are living outside USA, you get nothing! I am living in Germany, and you get no informations about most of this! No Magic Bands, no planning DVD.....
And a lot of People in the parks are from around the Word! Don't forget this.....

 

[alopez926]

What if you promised your daughter you'd leave the phone in the hotel safe? My husband and I have never had any device we could use in the parks (his Blackberry is awful), so we just don't bother. We basically do exactly what you described. We plan. We book our FP+ and dining ressies, and then within that loose framework, we go with the flow.

We make good use of rope drop, afternoon breaks, park close, and our familiarity with general crowd patterns, and occasional visits to a kiosk. Over the course of a typical vacation we ride everything we want to ride. We never stand in long lines (except when rides break down and we end up accidentally trapped in the queue). Effective planning does not have to involve being glued to your phone while in the parks.

Gotta say, I LOVE park hoppers.

I will definitely try that next time. We are going to Paris in August with a 2 day detour to DLP...we'll do a test run there. Should be easier I hope without FP+.!

 

[Skywise]

Disneyland doesn't have this problem though, do they?

 

[Squirlz]

I'm not a huge WDW fanatic, it's just one of many destinations we enjoy. No matter where we are planning to travel I investigate just to get the lay of the land at least. I was planning my first vacation at WDW as an adult for January 2001. My Sister told me about this board and I joined in October. Learned all the basics in short order. I'm no super-planner either, I just can't imagine going into anything blind.

 

[bsj1701]

I have not read all of the responses, but here is mine. A large part of the population think all Theme Parks are roughly the same. They understand you won't see Disney characters at SIX FLAGS. Or Harry Potter at Disney, etc. But there are many similarities. Most have rides, characters, fireworks, parades, shows, food to purchase, etc. Those who don't plan DISNEY think they have "been there, done that." They need to just show up and stand in a few lines and all will be fine. And then, when they have a bad time DISNEY or someone else (not them of course) is to blame.

Of course it is possible to plan and still have a bad time, but that may be another topic!

 

[JimmyV]

Regardless if Disney move their ADR window to 30,60,90 days these people that didn't plan wouldn't know when to call or that if they didn't call first thing in the morning the hard to get ADRs are gone.

I think this misses the point that most are making. Of course it is true that a person who doesn't intend to do any planning will be stuck no matter when Disney sets its deadlines. I don't think anyone is saying otherwise. But moving the deadlines would help the many, many people who intend to book reservations closer to the date of their trip just like they do for other vacations. I think that what we are seeing in this thread are references to people who say that booking things 180 and 60 days in advance is nuts, but who have every intention of looking into making reservations as the date of their vacation draws nearer. Those people who want to make some advance plans and intend to do so are getting just as shut out as people who don't intend to make any plans, and that situation can absolutely be rectified by Disney moving its reservation dates so that they more closely align with the rest of the world. Some folks want to compare the most popular Disney restaurants with the most popular restaurants in major cities, irrespective of qualitative comparisons, and that's fine. But there aren't a handful of top restaurants in this country that take reservations 180 days in advance. Go ahead and try. 60 days is pretty much the norm, with 30 days being fairly standard as well. People simply are not attuned to the 180 day behavior, and when they book a WDW trip, they find themselves behind the curve. Why is it such an odd idea for Disney to align its reservation policies to those of the rest of the civilized world? People seem to forget that the 180 day window is a fairly recent phenomenon in the larger scheme of things, and WDW didn't come to a grinding halt when the dates were aligned with the rest of the world's behavior. And people seem to forget that the 60/30 ride booking dates are unheard of at DLR (and every other Disney park worldwide), and none of them seem to suffer because of it. People seem to think that WDW's systems are operationally necessary, and that simply is not true.

 

[JimmyV]

If you can start at 180 out, nothing says you have to.

Anna and Elsa said you had to hit your first day mark. The Beast says you have to hit your first day mark. Sleepy and Bashful say that you have to hit your first day mark. Victoria and Albert say that you have to hit your first day mark.

 

[Maistre Gracey]

Here's part of the silliness IMO...
I have read posts here concerning booking deadlines, and the question was "does the booking window open at midnight, or 7 am 180 days out?"

MG

 

[bryanb]

Disneyland doesn't have this problem though, do they?

You're all welcome to come here and visit Disneyland! You have options. If you prefer not planning anything at all, you can show up in the morning at Disneyland without having decided which theme park you're visiting, and have a great time!

ADRs are available at the sit-down restaurants, but people don't obsess about those as much out here.

So it turns out you do have a choice in how you Disney!

 

[quagmire0]

I think some people treat a WDW trip like a trip to a local amusement park. They figure they'll get there and just stand in line like they do at Six Flags. Personally, I'm glad everyone doesn't plan, because it makes things that much better for the planners.

 

[ellie05]

I think this misses the point that most are making. Of course it is true that a person who doesn't intend to do any planning will be stuck no matter when Disney sets its deadlines. I don't think anyone is saying otherwise. But moving the deadlines would help the many, many people who intend to book reservations closer to the date of their trip just like they do for other vacations. I think that what we are seeing in this thread are references to people who say that booking things 180 and 60 days in advance is nuts, but who have every intention of looking into making reservations as the date of their vacation draws nearer. Those people who want to make some advance plans and intend to do so are getting just as shut out as people who don't intend to make any plans, and that situation can absolutely be rectified by Disney moving its reservation dates so that they more closely align with the rest of the world. Some folks want to compare the most popular Disney restaurants with the most popular restaurants in major cities, irrespective of qualitative comparisons, and that's fine. But there aren't a handful of top restaurants in this country that take reservations 180 days in advance. Go ahead and try. 60 days is pretty much the norm, with 30 days being fairly standard as well. People simply are not attuned to the 180 day behavior, and when they book a WDW trip, they find themselves behind the curve. Why is it such an odd idea for Disney to align its reservation policies to those of the rest of the civilized world? People seem to forget that the 180 day window is a fairly recent phenomenon in the larger scheme of things, and WDW didn't come to a grinding halt when the dates were aligned with the rest of the world's behavior. And people seem to forget that the 60/30 ride booking dates are unheard of at DLR (and every other Disney park worldwide), and none of them seem to suffer because of it. People seem to think that WDW's systems are operationally necessary, and that simply is not true.

If at 60-30 heck even 10 days they would have absolutely no open ADRs I could understand, but that is absolutely not true. In fact at 60 and 30 days with a little bit of research and flexibility you can still get some of the harder to get reservations. Again the people that casually are going to make their reservations as you are posting above are most likely not going to get the hard ADRs anyway no matter how much Disney changes their window. Sometimes it is even hard for dis veterans to score those when the window opens and that is with all the tricks and tips .

I have never planned a trip 180 days in advance and we have been able to get the ADRs we want. Disney does not work or operate like the outside work because it is Disney and not your local Olive Garden. The supply and demand is much higher. It is not an odd idea it is just how they choose to operate. It would be much easier if every company operate exactly the same but it's is not practical for many reasons. Their company they choice.

Disneyland and WDW are very different in every way including their costumers. People also forget that is possible to go to WDW and not have any ADR and still have a good trip. While it is also possible to have every single ADR you want and have a terrible trip. Disney has given plenty of tools and information to help you have a great trip. There are so much information on the web and bookstores too. You can choose to use it or not, but then don't be upset about the consequences. That is life sometimes you get what you want and sometimes you don't.

 

[bryanb]

I'm going to WDW in June with the crowds. The primary reason is to see my cousin who is competing at the ESPN complex, but I'm going to add on a couple of days for vacation. Since this was a late decision to go, I'm going to do what many people here consider sacrilege -- see what it's like with only 17 days advance notice (instead of 180 days).

I can still get FP+ for everything that I'd want to do, with the exception of Soarin' on the opening day. I don't want to lock myself into any table service restaurants at the moment, but I did see a couple of openings at Ohana, Boma, and Tusker House, which are of interest. I've never been in peak season before, and I'll need to be flexible once I get there since I don't know the full ESPN competition schedule yet, so this is going to be interesting.

But regardless of what happens, it's all about attitude. I'm going to have a good time whatever happens. I've already accepted that it's going to be hot and crowded, and it's going to be part of the fun. My vacation isn't going to be "ruined" because I couldn't fit in a 10:45 FP+ on the tea cups before some lunch reservation at some hard-to-get spot.