Why does everyone think using points to go on a Disney Cruise is a poor value???

[CarolMN]

Originally posted by CarolA
...(snip)...I have ALWAYS refused to consider the DVC as anything but a "splurge" that I could do with what I wanted.

I think the thing is to do what you want with the points. If you want to spend them on a cruise, does it REALLY matter if someone else thinks you "wasted" them. I mean most of us have friends/family who are pretty sure we "wasted" all that money already. What's one more person LOL!

They are your points and I agree 100% that it should only matter to YOU what you do with them. Hope no one wastes any time worrying about what someone else thinks about how they use their points.

The OP was wondering why some people think using points to pay for a cruise is a poor value. The answer is that on a purely economic level, you can almost always get more for your money if you rent the points and use the proceeds to pay cash for the cruise. But for some, the non-economic considerations outweigh the economic ones. AND THAT IS OK!

Best wishes -

 

[MarkRG]

I would throw a right angle into this. Which might provide a better answer.

The real world fact is that our points are a fixed value.

The result of this is anything outside of the DVC resorts is only going to go one way point wise. UP. There is this little thing called inflation. As prices for these outside things go up so will how many points to use them.

Will they continue to try to negotiate a fair price for it, sure, but I wouldn't expect any real deal with any of the trade outs as time continues to move forward.

 

[debbiedoo]

From a newcomer

I thought that it says that you could not rent out your points in the big member book and contracts?

I understood that we could book a famil member(sibling)but was not suppose to rent them?

Just curious

Have been thinking about a cruise and just wondering. . .

 

[zurgswife]

My SIL almost exclusively uses her points on DCL ...at least right now....she enjoys getting her DH totally away from phones...and right now DCL is a perfect vacation...

 

[Synonymous]

The real world fact is that our points are a fixed value.

Not really. Your points entitle you to a reservation at one of our DVC resorts. Those resort rooms can also be booked for cash. As the cost of those cash ressies goes up, the value of your DVC points goes up.

 

[slc224]

Renting points makes me nervous. Do you have the renter sign a contract? What are your cancellation policies? I would worry that the renter would back out and I would be left paying for a cruise out of pocket....

 

[new_yawka]

Generally you rent out the points to be used by the renter at one of the DVC resorts (You make the reservation and ultimately put it in their name).

I will tell you how I did it:

I rented 214 of my August 2004 points. I booked a BWV room with the understanding that I would attempt to move the reservation (for November) to BCV within the 7 month window.

The reservation is currently in my name. Once the renter's check clears (any day now), I will change the reservation to the renter's name. She has promised to pay the balance (1/3rd) 60 days before the trip. I have little or no downside inasmuchas, if she does not make the second payment, I can still cancel the reservation and, if I choose, still have 3 months within which to choose to bank those points (so long as the reservation is cancelled at least 31 days before checkin).

It is a win-win, since I get $10 per point....go on the cruise with this money and STILL have 72 more points to use as I wish (points I would have had to use to book the cruise using points).

So far it has been very smooth. Ask me in November and I will be happy to let you know how it went.

As for a "contract"....My renter and I spoke on the phone to clarify each other's expectations. I then typed out an e-mail with our understanding and asked her to respond to the e-mail agreeing to the term I had outlined. She did...and that's that.

One caveat. I believe I have been lucky, inasmuch as the renter seems to be very nice and was very diligent in getting the check to me quickly. I can only hope that all renters are that good.

Louis

 

[Boardwalk4us]

We are one of those DVC families that do use our points for cruises. Going on our 4th this next fall. We re-upped for the DVC discount rate for re-booking within the 3 business days after we got back. We have 2 staterooms category 11 on deck 7 already reserved for 4 people and used 388 points. Granted I could have made a few hundred dollars while renting, but with all the responsibilities in our lives, it is just nice to have the opportunity to chose what is best for our family and not feel guilty about it.
Maybe as my responsibilities lessen in the years to come and as DVC ups the points for the cruise line I will then switch to renting out points. But for now we just love knowing that DVC fits our vacation habits just fine. I think that is why we bought into DVC so we could use it to our satisfaction and feel good about it.

For for all the members on this board that do rent I feel that you truly want the other members to get the most out of DVC. For the advice I thank you. You have nothing to gain but the satifaction knowing you are helping others and not asking for anything in return. Isn't that what is board is all about??? Helping out others with ADVICE and sharing information.

In my life I have run into many people that have told me that I should or should not invest in one thing or another. With each piece of advice I have to weigh what is right for our family at that point in time. We invested in DVC (with plenty of skeptics around us and some are still there) and so far we feel we made one of the best investments of our life. We actually invested in our family and time for ourselves. The memories are priceless.

Nancy

 

[Happy Birthday Cat]

Originally posted by MarkRG
I would throw a right angle into this. Which might provide a better answer.

The real world fact is that our points are a fixed value.

The result of this is anything outside of the DVC resorts is only going to go one way point wise. UP. There is this little thing called inflation. As prices for these outside things go up so will how many points to use them.

Will they continue to try to negotiate a fair price for it, sure, but I wouldn't expect any real deal with any of the trade outs as time continues to move forward.

I disagree. Synonymous explained one part very well. I'd like to cover the second point you make. To think that one division of Disney is negotiating with another division of Disney and doing it on our behalf as opposed to what is in the best interest of the Disney Corporation is naive at best.

The points for cruising have gone up so much because it has become very popular for DVC members to use their points that way. As I have said before, DVC has become the single largest travel agent that DCL deals with. The result should be lower prices but that's not the case because DVC and DCL are not negotiating for the sake of the members but for the sake of the bottom line.

If more of us rent our points out to pay for cruises, I'm sure Disney will eventually either figure out a way to stop the rental of points or stop the outrageous increases in the point cost.

HBC

 

[Disney4ever4569]

It's a poor value simply because anytime you can pick up the phone and save hundreds on the Disney Cruise by paying cash and easily rent your points for $10 a point to cover the cost.

 

[FredS]

Originally posted by Disney4ever4569
It's a poor value simply because anytime you can pick up the phone and save hundreds on the Disney Cruise by paying cash and easily rent your points for $10 a point to cover the cost.

This is overgeneralizing! I have successfully rented points several times (including to pay for a cruise) and all have gone well, but in reality there are a number of things that can go "wrong" with a rental. It certainly isn't a matter of immediately converting your points into $10 each!

Besides the possibility of deadbeat renters (NSF checks, etc.) you also are taking on some level of responsibility if the renter has a legitimate problem. What if the payee insists he has sent payment but you haven't received? What if they pay the majority of the charge, but are slow to pay the remainder? What if they have a major illness or death in the family at the last minute? Checks can be lost, emergency situations can arise, plans can change. Unless you insist on 100% of the payment immediately and wash your hands of the situation you are paying a price for the uncertainty of the up and until the time that the renter has utilized the reservation. This may leave you "hanging" for several months. As with any business transaction, you put yourself at some level of risk.

Some cruises work out valuing your points at $8+. I think that it is not a bad idea at all for someone to choose the simpler route of just making the reservation than attempting to sell points. If I had a cruise that was $1400 or 160 points I would definitely go for the points cruise. Cleaner and more simple and perfectly good value in the overall scheme of things.

 

[Nick@ VB+OKW]

Originally posted by FredS
If I had a cruise that was $1400 or 160 points I would definitely go for the points cruise. Cleaner and more simple and perfectly good value in the overall scheme of things.

FredS
I think everyone here is in agreement with the above when you are only talking about a $200 difference.

But when you are talking a 150-200 pt difference ,which would be $1500-$2000 in cash, IMO it would be worth renting.

There are all kinds of risks in everything you do in life, but some of the ones you gave(NSF checks,death,etc) are the extremes. When you ask for 2/3 of the money up-front at the time of the reservation............the renter is more at risk than a DVC member.

 

[lurontravel]

Wow, can't believe all of the replies here since I last checked (there were about 7 two days ago). I was just curious, as I recently checked prices of a cruise and the cost / point value was about what I desribed in the original post. I have learned a lot by reading all of your opinions. Thanks for all of the replies. It gives me a lot of food for thought. I recently learned that the price goes up, up, up the nearer you get to the cruise date, so I guess that that'd be part of a deciding factor too (what the price is at the time you book/availability/etc...). So, MY conclusion is that it is probably a better deal (I'm only talking financially, here, folks), to pay cash for a DCL cruise MOST of the time, but not always, so for ME, the best bet is to check out the cost of the cruise paying with points and cash before I do anyting that is irreversible. There doesn't seem to be a real rule of thumb to go by. Thanks everyone for taking the time to give your opinion/share your knowledge.
Laura

PS we're going on our first cruise in a few weeks (4/24 Western), and my hubby got a great deal for us paying cash. We originally called and found out the cost in cash, and decided that it'd be less expensive if we used points so that we didn't dip into our "real" vacation money (translate "real" - non-Disney vacations). When we called, DVC said that there were no cabins left on that cruise for points. If we hadn't been able to get a great cash deal, we wouldn't have gone at this time.

 

[Dean]

Originally posted by debbiedoo
From a newcomer

I thought that it says that you could not rent out your points in the big member book and contracts?

I understood that we could book a famil member(sibling)but was not suppose to rent them?

Just curious

Have been thinking about a cruise and just wondering. . .

The POS says in several places that points CAN be rented. There is also a single reference related to preventing "commercial activity" which we've debated the definition and merit several times.

As for getting a return of $8 pp, I haven't seen anything come close to that that took advantage of the early booking discounts. Still, it is smart to look at one's individual situation to see what options there are. Personally, I think the negatives using points for a cruise go far beyond the points value. I'd rather rent points and pay for the cruise even it it was break even from a $$$ standpoint. I think the risk with a points rental are far more than the risks renting if one watches the issues appropriately, but that's just me.

 

[debm]

We have a renter that would like some of our VWL points. But I'm unsure of whether to rent or not. I've enjoyed reading all these posts but one thing my husband brought up was our dues. So we rent for $10 /point and are able to make $2000 on those 200 points. But what about the money I have to spend in dues for the entire year? That needs to come off the profit that I made on those points. So in reality I haven't made as much. That definitely affects the price of the cruise that I want to use the money for. I can't remember what our dues are---I think they are different depending on which home resort. But do others take this into account? And is anyone experienced enough to help me lease these points if I decide to???? Thanks!!!! Debi

 

[disneyberry]

<font face="times" size="+0">Debi, i think the thing to remember is that if you choose to use DVC points to book a cruise, you are still paying dues on those points. since the fact that you pay dues remains a constant either way (rent+book w/ cash vs. book w/ points), many people might not feel it's necessary to take dues into account when comparing costs.

you could think of it as:

1) Total cash out-of-pocket if you book your cruise using DVC points = A. the cost of the dues on those points you used for booking the cruise + B. the $75 booking fee (are there multiple fees for multiple bookings?).

2) Total cash out-of-pocket if you rent out your points + book cruise with cash = A. the cost of dues on the points you rent out + B. the cost of the cash booking - C. the rental income from the points you rented out.

btw, dues for VWL this year are $4.2210 per point. and if you need advice on renting points out, feel free to post a new thread specifically on that subject, and i'm sure plenty of members can offer advice. HTH!


Edit: okay, just out of curiosity (and for fun), i decided to do some math on an example (using Debi's situation... hope you don't mind, Debi!)

Option#1 - Book 2 Adults in a Category11 Stateroom for Eastern Caribbean Cruise, May 1st 2004, costs 246 points.
$1038.37 = Dues on 246 VWL points
$75.00 = Booking Transaction Fee
$1113.37 = Total Cash Out-of-Pocket

Option#2 - Rent out 239 points + Book same cruise with cash.
$1008.82 = Dues on 239 VWL points
$2494.70 = Cash Booking after Port Fees/Taxes (quote from Buycruises.com)
($2390.00) = Rental income
$1113.52 = Total Cash Out-of-Pocket, plus you end up with a whopping 7 points leftover heh.

so in this case, when you are booking so late, it's worth it to just use points. i'm not sure if Debi, you were wondering regarding the cruise in your countdown or not. it's a totally different story if you're booking another cruise farther in advance. if we used an alternate Value Season date, such as the Nov 13th 2004 Eastern Cruise:

Option#2 - Rent out only 156 points + Book 11/13/04 cruise with cash.
$658.48 = Dues on 156 VWL points
$2014.70 = Cash Booking after Port Fees/Taxes (quote from Buycruises.com)
($1560.00) = Rental Income
$1113.18 = Total Cash Out-of-Pocket, plus you end up with 90 extra DVC points that you could use on other vacations.

in the alternate case, you'd come out 90 points ahead. and, in theory if you rented at something higher like $11/pt, you'd come out even more ahead (113 extra points).</font>

 

[Disney Doll]

It has been my understanding that, from a purely financial perspective, using points for anything other than staying at DVC resorts is not the best use of points, due to the higher point values associated with going out of the program. However, from the perspective of what you want...heck, they are your points, spend them how you want!

Several years ago, DH got me tickets to see Beauty and the Beast in NYC for my birthday, and we booked an overnight stay at The Plaza hotel in NYC. It was like 52 points for one night! Best use of points???? Of course not. Wonderful, exciting, fun memory...most definitely. It's not always about the money.