Why does DVC not trade better into RCI?

[cz4ever]

I've read a lot of threads here at at TUG related to DVC trades into RCI. From what I gather, despite its very high price and how desirable it is, DVC weeks do not have (nearly?) as much RCI trading power as one might expect. There are alerts over at TUG when DVC inventory hits RCI, so TUGgers in the know can quickly snap up the (apparently underpriced) DVC weeks. DVCers report having limited choices of resorts, rather than being able to pick and choose among comparable locales. What gives?

Is the issue that RCI simply rates DVC properties in such a way that they do not give them much trading power?

Does it have something to do with the RCI membership being through DVD, and there being some benefit to DVD to not push for stronger trading power for DVC inventory sent to RCI?

I realize that DVC is very expensive as timeshares go, but there's a reason -- it has very strong demand. It's not like the DVC inventory over at RCI lingers -- it's snapped up extremely fast. Presumably if it were priced higher by RCI, supply and demand might be more balanced... to the benefit of DVCers who want to trade out.

 

[jcanary]

Here is something that is also very interesting. I am a member of RCI and DVC. Back in March there were DVC units on RCI for October. I snatched a 1 bedroom and it is alot less than using my DVC points. Here being a DVC owner I thought that the available inventory would go to the owners up to atleast 3 month before but I was able to book 7 months in advance. It is a hit or miss but it is alot cheaper paying for my other timeshare that trades into DVC and hope for a match when I want to go, no kids so off season is fine now. I am really amazed at the inventory in RCI. I read here where someone got a 2 bedroom savannah view thru a trade in RCI a few months out.

 

[hakepb]

Here is something that is also very interesting. I am a member of RCI and DVC. Back in March there were DVC units on RCI for October. I snatched a 1 bedroom and it is alot less than using my DVC points. Here being a DVC owner I thought that the available inventory would go to the owners up to atleast 3 month before but I was able to book 7 months in advance. It is a hit or miss but it is alot cheaper paying for my other timeshare that trades into DVC and hope for a match when I want to go, no kids so off season is fine now. I am really amazed at the inventory in RCI. I read here where someone got a 2 bedroom savannah view thru a trade in RCI a few months out.

Most DVC resort inventory is deposited into RCI when a DVC owner initiates a trade into RCI. (ie if a DVC owner wants a week in RCi he must give up his DvC week. The DVC owner cannot get the RCI week and keep his DVC week). So yes DVC weeks deposited into RCI are a seperate inventory and cannot be used again on DVC points.

The other type of DVC inventory is developer (what DVC sells) owned inventory. DVC points owners do not have access to unsold rooms. Some developers deposit inventory to get "fresh meat" into sales presentations.

 

[hakepb]

I've read a lot of threads here at at TUG related to DVC trades into RCI. From what I gather, despite its very high price and how desirable it is, DVC weeks do not have (nearly?) as much RCI trading power as one might expect. There are alerts over at TUG when DVC inventory hits RCI, so TUGgers in the know can quickly snap up the (apparently underpriced) DVC weeks. DVCers report having limited choices of resorts, rather than being able to pick and choose among comparable locales. What gives?

Is the issue that RCI simply rates DVC properties in such a way that they do not give them much trading power?

Does it have something to do with the RCI membership being through DVD, and there being some benefit to DVD to not push for stronger trading power for DVC inventory sent to RCI?

I realize that DVC is very expensive as timeshares go, but there's a reason -- it has very strong demand. It's not like the DVC inventory over at RCI lingers -- it's snapped up extremely fast. Presumably if it were priced higher by RCI, supply and demand might be more balanced... to the benefit of DVCers who want to trade out.

I'm not sure on the particulars, but I thought RCi required a fairly high TPU Trading Power Unit value to trade into DVC, so not all RCi owners can trade into DVC. DVC also blocks RCI trades in from Orlando area RCI resorts.

In general, it is a poor value to own DVC for trading out. With research you can buy a RCI timeshare for next to nothing and trade into DVC...or you could wind up with a timeshare that you cannot unload for $1.00

DVC does not provide individual memberships so DVC owners have more limited access to some RCI offerings than other timeshares so that may make match finding more difficult.

I'm not sure DVC owners see less availability to another RCI resort than any other non-owner for any specific time, though. I just think most DVC owners do not know what is needed to make a successful trade. (advance planning, wait lists...)

 

[chalee94]

There are alerts over at TUG when DVC inventory hits RCI, so TUGgers in the know can quickly snap up the (apparently underpriced) DVC weeks. DVCers report having limited choices of resorts, rather than being able to pick and choose among comparable locales. What gives?

i think it's the nature of timeshare exchange companies like II and RCI.

for one, many timeshare owners at the best, most in-demand resorts do what many DVC owners do: they rent for cash rather than plop a high quality week into the exchange pool for what will likely be a trade down in value. so if they rent their summer beach week for cash rather than deposit it into RCI, then RCI won't have that many options for summer beach week trades.

for another, the best weeks at the best resorts are typically requested at least a year in advance and any deposits there will match a standing request immediately and never show up in the general exchange pool. so if you look at what is currently available for trades in II or RCI, it will always be the "left overs."

(one other bummer about trading through RCI with DVC is that a high value week traded into RCI by an individual might generate 50 TPUS (trade power units). an individual might get up to 4-5 weeks in trade for that one week since RCI now offers "change back." for a DVC owner, your trade either matches or not, but if it matches, you use up all the trade value whether it's really an equal trade or not.)

 

[JimMIA]

I'm not sure on the particulars, but I thought RCi required a fairly high TPU Trading Power Unit value to trade into DVC, so not all RCi owners can trade into DVC.

The TPU numbers I've seen for DVC look pretty high to me, but you can combine weeks/points to get to the needed TPU, I believe.

DVC also blocks RCI trades in from Orlando area RCI resorts.

I think it's RCI that blocks and that is generally - but not universally - true. Wyndham, for example, trades differently in RCI and Wyndham owners from the five WDW area Wyndhams are NOT blocked from DVC.

I'm not sure DVC owners see less availability to another RCI resort than any other non-owner for any specific time, though.

I think you're right for the <600 RCI resorts accessible through DVC; I'm sure DVC owners have the same access to those resorts as everyone else...with the exception of being to search and book online. However, there are another 3,400 or so RCI resorts that DVC owners cannot exchange into.

 

[Brian Noble]

The TPU numbers I've seen for DVC look pretty high to me

Ditto. DVC units require significantly higher trade power than other Orlando area resorts---at times, as much as 3x or even more. The valuations have dropped a bit recently, but still.

They are not as high as some others---coastal mid-atlantic summer, for example---but that's perhaps understandable. Orlando is packed to the rafters with high-quality resorts, and at many times of year supply exceeds demand. The Orlando DVCs suffer a bit because of this.

 

[jacesmommy]

I deposited a very high trade power week into RCI and am WAITING AND WAITING AND WAITING for a May 2013 week! Will someone please deposit something and get me out of my misery! But seriously, I've noticed the inventory is very low compared to past years. Two years ago I booked a May week in the August prior and there were a number of available units.....not sure what's going on.

 

[Dean]

I've read a lot of threads here at at TUG related to DVC trades into RCI. From what I gather, despite its very high price and how desirable it is, DVC weeks do not have (nearly?) as much RCI trading power as one might expect. There are alerts over at TUG when DVC inventory hits RCI, so TUGgers in the know can quickly snap up the (apparently underpriced) DVC weeks. DVCers report having limited choices of resorts, rather than being able to pick and choose among comparable locales. What gives?

Is the issue that RCI simply rates DVC properties in such a way that they do not give them much trading power?

Does it have something to do with the RCI membership being through DVD, and there being some benefit to DVD to not push for stronger trading power for DVC inventory sent to RCI?

I realize that DVC is very expensive as timeshares go, but there's a reason -- it has very strong demand. It's not like the DVC inventory over at RCI lingers -- it's snapped up extremely fast. Presumably if it were priced higher by RCI, supply and demand might be more balanced... to the benefit of DVCers who want to trade out.

I think there are 2 simple answers. One is that it's Orlando and the other is that the corporate setup puts members at a significant disadvantage. In this regard, I think RCI has been much better for DVC than was II because II gave DVC essentially no credit for the increased demand over non DVC resorts. Initially RCI did the same but have changed somewhat, at least on trading in to DVC. The question is whether they give DVC members the same credit trading out and I haven't seen any indication that they have though it'd be pretty hard to get much info on this matter. The other issue is that while DVC is in relatively high demand for Orlando, it's really not that high of demand compared to say Maui, Aruba or ski locations for certain times or HH/MB area for summer. I think DVC members often far overestimate the true demand for DVC in the timeshare world.

 

[Brian Noble]

I deposited a very high trade power week into RCI and am WAITING AND WAITING AND WAITING for a May 2013 week! Will someone please deposit something and get me out of my misery! But seriously, I've noticed the inventory is very low compared to past years. Two years ago I booked a May week in the August prior and there were a number of available units.....not sure what's going on.

Individual DVC Members cannot book and deposit specific weeks. DVC's management company handles all deposit selection. And, DVC changed their deposit strategy since you last confirmed an exchange. Back then, they would deposit in two waves: a smaller wave about 10.5 months prior to use, and a larger about 6.5 months prior to use. Within the last year or so, they switched to deposit only things between about 5-6 months, give or take. The units that ended up in the space bank from the most recent deposit (yesterday, or maybe the day before) only went to the end of February.

Inventory moves a little more quickly than it used to for a variety of reasons. But, May is a pretty easy time to exchange in. You'll probably have another 2-3 months to wait, but as long as you are being a little bit flexible about one or more of resort choice, unit size, or dates, you have a good shot.

 

[cz4ever]

Thanks for all the feedback! What I take away from this thread is:

1. DVC does have high trading power (TPU) within the RCI system, but...
2. The corporate nature of DVC's membership in RCI makes it hard for individual DVC members to get the most out of that high TPU. In particular, you can only reserve the best of what's available within RCI when you call. You cannot deposit your week, bank that pile of TPU, and create an RCI waitlist for the resort(s) that you most prefer, which is how regular RCI members maximize the value of their deposits.

Am I understanding correctly?

If so, it sounds like if I want to travel to timeshare resorts outside of DVC, the most cost-effective approach is to pick up a high-TPU/low-MF/low-cost non-DVC resort that trades into RCI (or II), and rent out excess DVC points rather than them trade into RCI. Substantially more complicated (more hassle), but more thrifty...

 

[Brian Noble]

You cannot deposit your week, bank that pile of TPU

TPU/trade power doesn't really apply to DVC owners---there is a fixed crossover grid based on size season. Anything in the "DVC approved" list that is deposited can be had for the points in the crossover grid. This is true of the other point-based mini-systems (e.g. Wyndham) as well. It is more like Points than Weeks in this respect.

and create an RCI waitlist for the resort(s) that you most prefer

AFAIK, you *can* do this.

The real issue for RCI and DVC is that the cost to own or rent DVC is much higher than the typical RCI resort. There are exceptions (e.g. Manhattan Club, summer mid-atlantic coastal, etc.) The trade power valuations capture *some* of these differences, but there is not enough dynamic range in the trade power valuations to fully capture them. So, DVC owners are generally "losing" if they exchange vs. renting out points and using the cash to just rent whatever they want.

Conversely, other owners are often getting a lot of leverage exchanging rather than renting. Some folks are very good at playing the exchange game and get obscenely good deals. Conversely, some other owners have such low trade power that it would be a better deal for them to rent than exchange, particularly for smaller/offseason units.

But, yes---at the end of the day, using DVC to exchange in RCI (vs. some other low-cost/high-TPU timeshare) is not a good idea.

Finally, unless you are willing to make timesharing a hobby, I would not recommend buying something purely for exchanging purposes. The rules are constantly changing, and what works well today may not work well tomorrow.

 

[Dean]

Individual DVC Members cannot book and deposit specific weeks. DVC's management company handles all deposit selection. And, DVC changed their deposit strategy since you last confirmed an exchange. Back then, they would deposit in two waves: a smaller wave about 10.5 months prior to use, and a larger about 6.5 months prior to use. Within the last year or so, they switched to deposit only things between about 5-6 months, give or take. The units that ended up in the space bank from the most recent deposit (yesterday, or maybe the day before) only went to the end of February.

Inventory moves a little more quickly than it used to for a variety of reasons. But, May is a pretty easy time to exchange in. You'll probably have another 2-3 months to wait, but as long as you are being a little bit flexible about one or more of resort choice, unit size, or dates, you have a good shot.

I'd add that if one works with the smaller, independent exchange companies it's still possible to direct a specific deposit.

Thanks for all the feedback! What I take away from this thread is:

1. DVC does have high trading power (TPU) within the RCI system, but...
2. The corporate nature of DVC's membership in RCI makes it hard for individual DVC members to get the most out of that high TPU. In particular, you can only reserve the best of what's available within RCI when you call. You cannot deposit your week, bank that pile of TPU, and create an RCI waitlist for the resort(s) that you most prefer, which is how regular RCI members maximize the value of their deposits.

Am I understanding correctly?

If so, it sounds like if I want to travel to timeshare resorts outside of DVC, the most cost-effective approach is to pick up a high-TPU/low-MF/low-cost non-DVC resort that trades into RCI (or II), and rent out excess DVC points rather than them trade into RCI. Substantially more complicated (more hassle), but more thrifty...

I'm not sure we can confirm that DVC has higher trading power, only that the power needed to trade in has risen and higher than comparable off property Orlando options. I'm not sure TPU even applies in Disney case but if it does, the fact that most deposits are shorter time will hurt TPU a little bit, likely at least 10%. If you play with the TPU calculator you'll see that DVC tends to produce low numbers for TPU for lower demand times and high for high demand times. We're talking spread's of high teens to mid 50's for 2 BR units.

It's also difficult to compare to existing RCI options. You can look at how RCI weeks work and how RCI points work but in reality DVC isn't really either and is somewhat in between. In general it appears that DVC works as a points resort but with the ability to do deposit first, something most systems that work as points resorts can't do. I'm also not convinced that the TPU issue is as applicable when DVC has a trade request in as it is for me as a direct RCI member.

Still, the biggest issues for DVC, IMO, are that most exchanges are a downgrade, it's so expensive both up front and in fees and the lack of direct RCI access which is likely the biggest negative. If one is looking at trading routinely or for something to use outside of DVC, I'd certainly recommend a non DVC option to do so. One then has to find the right one. I think the other mini-systems are best to look at. Wyndham is likely best to use directly, BG is better for trading. Both BG and Wyndham give you RCI included and both should give you some II possibilities but I suspect BG is better if you're thinking II. I'd look at the places I wanted to go and see who has resorts in those areas that appealed to me.

While you can have an ongoing search for the best of the best (actually the best way to exchange using DVC), the lack of direct access is still an issue since you can't have an ongoing request with RCI for points inventory, I'm pretty sure DVC has to search manually for those.

 

[Jkpark]

I have belonged to RCI for years. I bought a small timeshare in northern Arizona at foreclosure and I traded it for many great vacations - Orange Lake in Kissimmee a couple times, Southern CA, Mexico, St. Croix, etc. When RCI announced a few years ago they were now partnering with DVC - I was so excited. My kids were young so we weren't tied to school schedules and I put in a search for really anything - off season. I was offered (via ongoing search) a 1 bedroom at Beach Club and 2 bedroom at AKV. Didn't use either b/c of conflicts over those dates. Ended up with a 1 bedroom at SSR. This was booked in 2010 for travel May 2011.

Then RCI came out saying they are giving us "transparency" into TPU and you can combine weeks, use leftover points, etc. But in doing so - from where I am sitting - the TPU on DVC skyrocketed (or mine plummeted). What I easily traded for to use in 2011 with one week - would have cost me 3 weeks later in 2011 or 2012. Adding up 3 years of maintenance dues (even though low) and the fee to combine, and the fee to trade - and it just didn't make sense anymore. I reached out to RCI for them to explain b/c all of their literature assured us trading power wasn't changing - it was only transparency - but it had to have changed.

Now I own at SSR and although I plan on trading within DVC, I don't see myself using RCI. Granted my children are now in school so I'm tied to travel certain times of the year. Anyway - I bought a lower # of points knowing I like other vacations, too - so one year I will combine my points for something nice at Disney, and the next I will use cash to do whatever we want that year.

 

[Dean]

I have belonged to RCI for years. I bought a small timeshare in northern Arizona at foreclosure and I traded it for many great vacations - Orange Lake in Kissimmee a couple times, Southern CA, Mexico, St. Croix, etc. When RCI announced a few years ago they were now partnering with DVC - I was so excited. My kids were young so we weren't tied to school schedules and I put in a search for really anything - off season. I was offered (via ongoing search) a 1 bedroom at Beach Club and 2 bedroom at AKV. Didn't use either b/c of conflicts over those dates. Ended up with a 1 bedroom at SSR. This was booked in 2010 for travel May 2011.

Then RCI came out saying they are giving us "transparency" into TPU and you can combine weeks, use leftover points, etc. But in doing so - from where I am sitting - the TPU on DVC skyrocketed (or mine plummeted). What I easily traded for to use in 2011 with one week - would have cost me 3 weeks later in 2011 or 2012. Adding up 3 years of maintenance dues (even though low) and the fee to combine, and the fee to trade - and it just didn't make sense anymore. I reached out to RCI for them to explain b/c all of their literature assured us trading power wasn't changing - it was only transparency - but it had to have changed.

Now I own at SSR and although I plan on trading within DVC, I don't see myself using RCI. Granted my children are now in school so I'm tied to travel certain times of the year. Anyway - I bought a lower # of points knowing I like other vacations, too - so one year I will combine my points for something nice at Disney, and the next I will use cash to do whatever we want that year.

Your's likely didn't change, DVC started comparable to other Orlando options and has increase a lot. What TPU does is give transparency. The reality is that if you have a poor trader it was likely always a poor trader and one just didn't know it or realize how bad it was. Now you know exactly where you stand, often for the worse. The big fear is those who own dogs (poor weeks or resorts) will abandon them. For seasonal resorts this could spell disaster since many weeks, even at top resorts, aren't worth even the yearly maint fees. There's a resort in CA which is failing (or may have failed already) that has the setup where you only pay fees if you use it. For multiple reasons no one was using it and I think I saw that the fee to us a week was up well over 5 digits, the number $27K comes to mind.

 

[Jkpark]

I think I saw that the fee to us a week was up well over 5 digits, the number $27K comes to mind.

YIKES!

Yes - we knew we had a dog. We weren't tied to a schedule and aren't too high maintenance we were very happy with ours for years. But then I traded to SSR and was spoiled. Now with a tighter schedule - and honestly - me being a little more high maintenance - no longer a good deal. I honestly just "sold" out of that place. On to bigger and better

 

[bwvBound]

There's a resort in CA which is failing (or may have failed already) that has the setup where you only pay fees if you use it. For multiple reasons no one was using it and I think I saw that the fee to us a week was up well over 5 digits, the number $27K comes to mind.

Which one, Dean? Do you recall either name or location?

 

[Dean]

Which one, Dean? Do you recall either name or location?

That was supposed to be CAN, not CA. Horseshoe Resort Ontario, $27879.51 per week last assessment schedule per Timesharing today. The point at Poipu (I've stayed there when it was the Embassy) SA of almost $6K a week, Diamond resorts who now run it have been sued by some of the owners.

 

[bwvBound]

That was supposed to be CAN, not CA.

Ah, thanks! I didn't even *think* to read that as CAN. I am so easily confused between the common abbreviations for California/Canada; Louisiana/Los Angeles.

Yowza, poor Horseshoe Resort owners!

Thanks again for the info ... sigh.

 

[hakepb]

Ah, thanks! I didn't even *think* to read that as CAN. I am so easily confused between the common abbreviations for California/Canada; Louisiana/Los Angeles.

Yowza, poor Horseshoe Resort owners!

Thanks again for the info ... sigh.

Ha .
Locations get even more confusing when i get a call at work from Ontario, CA.

That's a suburb of Los Angeles, California, and is not up north