Why aren't the Monorails expanded???

[MainStreetFan]

I saw a "rumor" on another pretty reliable board that monorails that connect all parks is in the works. Supposedly the cars are on order. Just read this last night

 

[grimley1968]

I saw a "rumor" on another pretty reliable board that monorails that connect all parks is in the works. Supposedly the cars are on order. Just read this last night

I wouldn't doubt they have ordered more cars for the monorail system, but I'd say that is more likely intended to replace aging cars in the existing system. That rumor of monorail expansion has been around for decades. I wouldn't put much stock in it. I just can't see Disney putting billions into a monorail system expansion, when the current system frankly just doesn't work as well as it used to. For instance, from the Poly, if I take a boat to MK versus the resort monorail loop, I bet I beat the monorail by a good 10 minutes, assuming the wait times are the same for each. And usually the wait times are quite a bit less for boats than the monorail.

An above poster mentioned the idea of more connecting canals to the parks from resorts. I love that idea. It would be cheaper, more fun than the monorail (IMHO) and could very easily accommodate varying levels of crowds, like buses can. A water-based system makes much more sense in an easily-flooded swamp than a massive concrete and steel-based system of monorail tracks.

 

[minnie61650]

I saw a "rumor" on another pretty reliable board that monorails that connect all parks is in the works. Supposedly the cars are on order. Just read this last night

Sounds Loke a "RUMOR."
I guess one can always hope.
Linda

 

[OKW Lover]

The initial construction costs about $80 million per mile. Plus the cost of every train and every station. As for fuel costs making monorails more efficient. That is not true. While the monorails them selves run on electricity, that electricity has to be made somehow. WDW uses a gas powered turbine to create the electricity needed.

Even though it doesn't always seem like it, buses are also far more efficient than the monorails.

Actually WDW doesn't generate all the power it needs, a portion is purchased from other utilities or the power pool. It would depend on what the relative price is of its own generation vs the market clearing price at the pool.

But that's also somewhat of an oversimplification: The combustion turbines (think jet engines) that drive the generators also produce hot and chilled water that is used for domestic and industrial purposes in the MK and nearby resorts. So, in a sense the electricity is a by-product. But it is by no means free. Also, they don't burn "gas", but instead burn jet fuel. Priced that lately?

 

[OKW Lover]

Two thoughts:

First the existing system is not a switched system so you couldn't build another spur off it it. Give the way the monorail works, (It wraps over the sides of the rail), it really isn't setup to be a switched type of system. You would have to either extend the existing loop that goes to Epcot to MGM and make it a stop off of it or build another loop to MGM. Either a short one with a station at Epcot for Transfers or a longer one with a station at the Ticket and Transportation Center.

Actually the existing system is indeed switched. If you look at the section of the line between the MK and Contemporary, you'll see there is a spur line with a switch beam that is used to connect the loop to the monorail maintenance facility behind the MK. In addition, there are also switch beams at the TTC where they can move trains from the outer express MK loop to the inner local MK loop or the Epcot loop.

 

[DizWacko]

I still didnt get an answer to my question, why was it "affordable" in the early 80s??? No one is talking about connecting ALL of the resorts and the parks, just the Parks (and Maybe AKL : )

 

[ukcatfan]

But that's also somewhat of an oversimplification: The combustion turbines (think jet engines) that drive the generators also produce hot and chilled water that is used for domestic and industrial purposes in the MK and nearby resorts. So, in a sense the electricity is a by-product. But it is by no means free. Also, they don't burn "gas", but instead burn jet fuel. Priced that lately?

I work in the electric utility industry. Combustion turbines usually burn natural gas or diesel fuel. Jet fuel is too expensive for the amount of energy that you can get out of it. They are also typically only used for peaking power. That is when the entire grid is experiencing high draw. The majority of the power used in WDW is brought in on transmission lines from other producers. Disney recently signed a very large contract with Progress Energy and they supply the majority the power to WDW. I can see where WDW would run it more often to use the heat.

 

[WDW LOVR]

I have no idea about the cost of a monorail, but if that is too expensive, why not lay down a small gauge train track and run trains out to AK and back? Sure it might take a little longer than a bus, but I would gladly take a train "ride" vs the bus system.

The buses are one of the reasons we love the Epcot area resorts so much. 2 of the 4 parks you don't take a bus to.

 

[J.C.&ALI'SMOM]

I don't really think that more monorails are needed. They are convenient, sure. But is it worth that much money for transportation when the buses already function well?

I like the idea of using the waterways more. We had a map that showed the entire property with roads, etc. and there were canals and lakes on it as well. Looking at that, it wouldn't take very much for those to be dredged and widened. The only problem would be the amount of time the trip would take. The boats can only travel so fast and some of the routes might be long. Not time-effective.

 

[seashoreCM]

A more comprehensive monorail system would have at least one of these disadvantages:

1. More stops between your resort and the park, or

2. Need to get out and transfer from bus to monorail.

Also there would need to be four tracks, not just two, from Epcot south to carry MK and Epcot closing crowds to the various resorts south of Epcot in the same time frame as the buses do today.

Everyone can get a magical monorial experience today riding the existing monorails so there is no need to build any more monorails for that reason.

Disney hints:
http://members.aol.com/ajaynejr/disney.htm

 

[peter11435]

Actually WDW doesn't generate all the power it needs, a portion is purchased from other utilities or the power pool. It would depend on what the relative price is of its own generation vs the market clearing price at the pool.

But that's also somewhat of an oversimplification: The combustion turbines (think jet engines) that drive the generators also produce hot and chilled water that is used for domestic and industrial purposes in the MK and nearby resorts. So, in a sense the electricity is a by-product. But it is by no means free. Also, they don't burn "gas", but instead burn jet fuel. Priced that lately?

I never said Disney made all of their own electricity. In fact I know that Disney produces about 55mw which is roughly 29% of what they need.

 

[peter11435]

Actually the existing system is indeed switched. If you look at the section of the line between the MK and Contemporary, you'll see there is a spur line with a switch beam that is used to connect the loop to the monorail maintenance facility behind the MK. In addition, there are also switch beams at the TTC where they can move trains from the outer express MK loop to the inner local MK loop or the Epcot loop.

Yes there are switches however they are not very efficient. For safety reasons disney only operates what is called a cold switch. In other words all power to the lines is shut down when the track switches. The causes all trains to have to stop. Also for Safety reasons disney does not alow trains to pass through the switches with guests onboard.

 

[lauran cameron]

You know, I'm a "do-it-yourselfer" here at my home. Maybe we can get a bunch of guests together to help out? I have a cordless drill and saw I could lend to the project.

We can make it a new tour. Instead of "Keys to the Kingdom", it could be "Work Permit to the Monorails"

hahaha ryanmilla I like the way you think!

 

[Pedler]

Actually the existing system is indeed switched. If you look at the section of the line between the MK and Contemporary, you'll see there is a spur line with a switch beam that is used to connect the loop to the monorail maintenance facility behind the MK. In addition, there are also switch beams at the TTC where they can move trains from the outer express MK loop to the inner local MK loop or the Epcot loop.

It is switched but not to handle passengers. The current design of the system is only to move trains between loops so they can operate on the loops, not to be functioning switched rail system. If you look at the arial pictures of those switches a mistake at the switch would be catostrophic.

The current design could not operate like a regular switched rail system. In essence all you can do with the current system is operate loops. With the spread out nature of the resorts and destinations you would need a heck of a lot of loops and transfer stations to make it work.

Light rail would be interesting but how would you connect all the hotels? You would have to create spur lines to each one and have a whole infrastructure to manage it. And it is not as dynamic as the buses to responding to changing loads. As uncool as the buses may be there are probably the most usefull and fastest form of mass transport for a place like Walt Disney World when you have to move the sheer volume of guests they.

Trust me I like the mono rail and boats and such. When we were at the WL we took a boat to the CR so we could take the mono rail to TTC and transfer to go to Epcot. We did this so the kids could ride it. We treated it as a ride and not efficient transportation to the parks. The same goes for taking a boat from WL to MK. We liked it but on average the buses were quicker and there were more of them. (Especially when the boat had to make a stop at Fort Wilderness. Talk about slow).

 

[WillCAD]

I still didnt get an answer to my question, why was it "affordable" in the early 80s??? No one is talking about connecting ALL of the resorts and the parks, just the Parks (and Maybe AKL : )

It wasn't really any more affordable in the 80's, but the cost of the Epcot monorail loop was financed in with the cost of the park and its associated infrastructure (power, water, sewer, roads, and communications).

Kinda like the cost of a sunroof adding $10 to your car payment over 5 years - but you wouldn't want to lay out the extra $1000 in cash to add one later.

I like the idea of a dualized light rail system, but it wouldn't need a million spurs. A single east-west line could start at AKL, pass AK, through the MGM/Epcot/Resorts area, and proceed on to Downtown Disney. It would not be able to stop at every individual resort, but would have enough stops to be reasonably convenient to most of the resorts.

 

[ksdave]

How about canals?
I don't know what the distances are between parks but I wouldn't mind a nice ferry boat ride from one to another.
Make them wide enough for two to pass.
Make the ferrys big enough for bathrooms and a snack bar.
Kids would love it and it might even be relaxing if the seating is done right.

Jamming people in like they currently do obviously won't work for longer trips though.

This is what they have at Universal to connect their three resorts to Citywalk and the parks. I really enjoy riding their boats. BUT, I don't think the distances between the WDW parks would make this very efficient. The ride from Citywalk to Portofino Bay Hotel at UO is around (8) minutes. Comparing this distance to, say, MK to AK, would make for a very long ride (probably 25-30 minutes). Not many people would want to spend this much time over and over to get from one park to another, or from a resort to a park.

 

[Servants of Evan]

Canals? Ugh, all I can think about is what a wonderful mosquito hatchery they would create right next to your resort. "Time to go to the pool for my daily bloodletting!"
While I will agree that the monorails have a certain sex appeal, it's the busses that get the work done. Peak hours = more busses on the road. Fewer guests at this resort rather than that = shift busses from one route to another. If your resort ID is also your admission media (and with all that Disney seems to be putting into their computer system) it shouldn't be too hard to track its guests to meet the demands of the day. For example I'm pretty sure they would track 3800 guests at the resort - 1400 went to MK, 1400 went to Epcot, 900 went to MGM, 100 to the waterparks, etc. and so they could shift the busses to reflect anticipated rider demand. A basic computer program checking the databases could be a very useful tool.

Oh, and for new monorail construction: let's not forget the costs associated with testing each and every batch of concrete that is delivered to the site. This is not your sidewalk where the most you fall would be a few inches, but obviously something where life safety comes into play. If the engineer wouldn't require it, the legal team would.

Servants of Evan

 

[PortieOwner]

I have heard that for mass transit certain types of monorails can be quite cheap. In some cases the rails and supports can be pre-fabbed in off-site factories; this apparently reduced the construction costs quite a bit.

I don't really like light rail. It runs at grade level and doesn't provide the wonderful views that a monorail does.

Portie'

 

[J.C.&ALI'SMOM]

The waterways might not be the most time effective way to transport guests, but they would not be any more prone to mosquito hatching than the lakes, ponds, marshes, canals, etc. that are at WDW right now. There is water all around. So that reason not to use water transportation doesn't work.

 

[WDW Poly Princess]

I'd like to see the monorail run out to Downtown Disney- that always seems to be the hardest place to get bus transportation to, and it would be especially convenient if it had 3 stops there (The busses seem to stop at all 3 places one day, just at marketplace the next). Any monorail additions would be great, though!

I remember reading a while back that it's not exactly cheap to run the busses, either. It has to cost them around a thousand dollars per day per bus.