Why are we treated so poorly????

[A1A1]

excellent posts! Boy am I flaming mad now. I too will look into IOA and stop using key card/charge card. It's about time to go out and explore the other things Florida has to offer. Has anyone been to Cypress Gardens lately? DD and I went there last May and had a blast! It only took about forty minutes to get there, and we even considered going two days in a row.

It will be on our itinerary each trip now, and that means one less day in the WDW parks.......

 

[stlrod]

I ususally post on too many subjects and just say whatever I feel. When I saw the original post, I veered away deciding to take a look in a few days. Wow, was it interesting to come back. Just about everything I thought of as I read through the posts had been said by somebody (from discounts for all are needed to I own at HH or VB and don't want to pay for the discounts and many other thoughts.) What I also found interesting was how this thread is a perfect example of the love-hate realtionship between Disney fans and the mouse that was described in a Washington Post last week. If anyone wants to read the article, here's the link:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A57712-2001Dec4.html
In the past few months, I have been highly critical of Disney management for mismanaging its marketing efforts in light of an economic turndown. However, after reading the article, I've decided tobe more tempered in my comments. The author compares anti-Disneyites with ultra right-wing religious zealouts who have potested everything from the images on the cover of The Little Mermaid to Gay Days at WDW. While I don't mind being accused of being anti-Disney, I'm certainly not going to place myself in the same category as right-wing conservatists. Just so I don't offend though, the article also points out that there are left-wingers who criticize Disney as well (women's groups concerned over the increasing breast sizes of Disney heroines.) Maybe I'll just try to stay in the middle.
For anyone interested, there is a website devoted to hating all things Disney. Here' s the link:http://www.sodh.org

 

[raidermatt]

Muushka, Johnnie, A1A1 - If you get better value by going to Universal, by all means do so. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. If there are enough members who feel the same as you, Disney will respond. If not, and their attendance, DVC purchases, etc continue to grow (recession/terrorism aside), they will not respond.

You are free to do as you wish. But many of us clearly place a higher value on what Disney offers and therefore are going to make a different decision. Neither of us are wrong. The only flaw in your arguements comes when you say Disney "should" provide discounts, or it's bad business not to. You may want them to, and certainly I would be happy if the did as well, but if they are going to make less money by doing it, they are doing the right thing by NOT discounting more than they already do.

After all, if you claim to know that automatically provding discounts is the "right" thing to do, you must also know what the right amount is. If they gave 5%, many would say that's not enough. What about 10, 20 or 90%? If 10% is good business, is 50% great business?

 

[Johnnie Fedora]

After all, if you claim to know that automatically provding discounts is the "right" thing to do, you must also know what the right amount is. If they gave 5%, many would say that's not enough. What about 10, 20 or 90%? If 10% is good business, is 50% great business?

I would humbley suggest the FL AP rate.

 

[dmadman43]

Disney will wake up and realize that they do, in fact, need to start paying attention to DVC members

Or else......what? What will happen? DVC members stop going? That makes no sense, they have your money. They will just rent the rooms out to paying customers (and offer them discounts to encourage them to come back! ). That's a sweet deal for them! Or we sell our contracts? Sure, that'll show 'em. Someone will buy it or Disney will buy it back from us and sell it to someone else....and round and round it goes. In the end, they still get the money. And, as a shareholder, thank you very much. Quick show of hands from anyone willing to opt out of DVC over the lack of a park pass discount? anyone?...anyone? bueller?

As others have pointed out..they got us. We're theirs. They have little motivation to offer us more than a nice, clean, well maintained, premier property at which to stay. Offering us discounts makes little business sense. It's the occasional visitors from whom they get the benefit of offering a discount. By doing so they hope to convert them into more regular visitors.

 

[Eeyore2U]

In the long run, I think the price we paid is our discount. I know over the next 40 years we will save a lot of $$$$$ on room expenses. We have been to restaurants that give discounts and can never remember to use them. i think the saying is "Buyer beware!" If they give us what they stated they were giving us. Anything else is gravy.

 

[sgtpet]

DVC will be concerned about its membership in 2042 when these current deals end. Until then they already have our money and our commitment. Not using the room card is a good idea.

 

[Synonymous]

Muushka- Good for you! If enough people do the same, then there will be a good business reason for Disney to give us discounts.

I wouldn't count on enough people doing it, though. I know I won't be.

 

[TnRobin]

I have a question. This is not meant to prove any point or to take either side. Just curious.

Do Marriott Timeshare Members get discounts on Marriott hotel accomadations?????

 

[A1A1]

I always (usually always) appreciate reading all the different points of view on a topic. I guess my thoughts are that I spend much more time, and therefore, money, at WDW since joining DVC. I believe that Disney makes a good amount of money on DVC or they wouldn't keep adding resorts to the program. They get a big chunk of money (and interest from those who finance) up front. Disney is able to invest that money to make lots and lots more. Anyway, they are a business, that's what they are supposed to do - no complaint there. I would like to see a small discounted rate on park passes for DVC members, who sometimes spend as much time/money in the parks as a Florida resident would.

It would be nice. Do I think they would ever do it - a big "no". Unfortunately, I also believe many people will start to venture out past WDW to the other tourist attractions in Florida without incentive to keep all their money at WDW. If we are in this thing for 40+ years, it's bound to get old at some point. I hope that we current owners would be given a consideration for giving Disney our capital upfront so that they could invest and grow.

There are many wonderful benefits to being a DVC owner, none of which have to do with park passes for most of us. I would jump up and down for a 5% consideration on the park passes. Just something to say "we know you are here with us for the long haul, and we appreciate your loyalty and your business".

The cost of the park passes, and I have purchased an annual pass for the past three years, has gotten cost prohibitive for my family. So we are going to start doing other things in Florida until, if ever, the park admissions become more reasonable, especially in light of reduced park hours, but not reduced park prices.

I would appreciate the opinions of anyone else who will comment on my post. Thank you.

I haven't spent a lot of time doing math on the costs, etc, so if anyone has, please post.

 

[sgtpet]

Why do you think they created DVC in the first place? They know you will be back 40 plus times and spending money more than likely in their resort areas and parks. If you want to hurt Disney then go to non-Disney places while in Orlando.

The thing is most people buy into DVC becacse they love WDW so they will want to go to the Disney things.


Give Disney credit, DVC was a tremendous move on their part.

They owe us nothing except our points and living by the rules set out in our contracts with them.

 

[PKS44]

These threads always generate a lot of posts. I have given this a lot of thought (more than I should, probably) and this is how I see it (and of course by extension this is how it is):

There are no discounts for loyalty. Forget it. They do not exist in any business. S0-called loyalty discounts are there to get more business. The Florida resident discount like all discounts is not there because people live in Florida, it is there because WDW is in Florida and there are so many choices for Florida residents, all year long. Disney feels compelled to entice them to WDW. Those people are a 365 days a year market with the freedom to choose that DVC members just have not exercised. Most FL residents don't live on site. DVC members are at the doorstep. Disney has not felt compelled to discount much for DVC members because we have, up to now, come to WDW parks without the enticement. Presumably that is why we bought DVC, to be near the parks.

The question of discounts gets complicated. The only reason Disney will discount is if the bottom line is increased by doing so. Examples people have offered is that they will spend more on food and drink and thus Disney winds up ahead in the end. Or that more people will come more days. Example- you may be willing to buy a four day hopper to use over a 6 days' stay, or you might pay for a 6 day LOS pass. Disney discounts the LOS for DVC members just enough to entice you to spend just a bit more for the LOS to get the added flexibility and entice you to stay on site more, which of course is more money for them both ways. Also, people may be willing to spend $200 on admissions and $400 on food (TOTAL $600), or they may be willing to spend $100 on admission and $600 on food(total $700). Depending on the perceived value, the totals could be higher, lower, or the same by manipulating admission prices. The problem with all of these calculations is determining profit margins. Food and drink are marked up considerably, but admission margins could be as high as 100% once you have a set number of people in the park to pay the expense of running it, every additional ticket sold is pure profit.

Up until recently it was no problem getting people into the parks. This may be changing or may just be in a temporary lull. As a stockholder, I hope Disney has given this at least as much thought as I have. I look at Tokyo Disney parks where they are supposedly making a lot of money. They have a three tiered admission system- Unlimited rides, etc, limited use of the rides, and no rides but you can walk around and shop and eat, etc...They use colored wristbands. I don't doubt there is a market for such a system here. What it would cost to implement such a system and whether such an approach is needed to boost park profits or would boost overall profits?- hey I'm a doctor not an amusement park management expert, what do I know? I am just asking...I see that Disney is starting to look at wristbands to limit the height measurements on kids, maybe this is the beginning of an experiment in wristband use in the parks for other purposes...

Paul

 

[Johnnie Fedora]

I believe that most us us purchased because we like Disney as a vacation location and like the timeshare unit itself. I also believe that most DVCers did exhaustive money calculations before buying to make sure that their purchase made good fiscal sense. Overall, I believe most DVCers are very mindful vacation cost, and this thread is just a further extension (concerning park pass prices) of that mindset. We want to get the most for our vacation dollars, and at WDW that can include park admission prices.

Yes, they "owe" us nothing except what we purchased, that doesn't mean that we can't hope for some additional perks or style of pass that is more useful for the typical DVCer. I've posted this idea before.

For DVCers that would like a more cost effective pass, what about a new DVC Hopper Pass that lets you stay in the parks by the hour, instead of the whole day. It could work similar to a typical phonecard, you "clock in and clock out" of the parks. This would fit the typical DVCers vacations style much better, and it would encourage people to use the parks frequently just in shorter time periods. Hours would not expire.

Disney wouldn't even have to "discount" it, the idea of which seems to offend some people. It would just be prorated to fit hour by hour usage, and it could also contain the typical flex features like the current hopper. In fact, I would pay more for such a flexible pass.

With this option, DVC members would only be given the perk of a different manner of usage, not a cost break.

Johnnie

 

[A1A1]

Johnnie,
Very interesting idea about the length of time pass. I would be interested in this type of pass, because there have been many times that I have wanted to go to a park to do one or two things, but didn't because I didn't want to use a whole day's pass to get in there. In addition, those that want to eat at Epcot, for example, but not stay longer than it would take to eat, have also had to use a park admission day to eat there. Chances are pretty good that once you'd get in the park, you'd stay longer than anticipated, and therefore, *spend more money*, which we all have stated is the major motivator for Disney.

 

[Synonymous]

Johnnie- That's a great idea- from the customer's point of view. It would save us money. Which is exactly what makes it a terrible idea from Disney's point of view- it would save us money. Disney is interested in ways to make us spend MORE money, not in giving us ways to spend less.

Unless a large number of people take up Muushka's idea, nothing is going to happen. We might as well get upset because they don't have Eisner come shine our shoes before we leave for the park every morning. It's futile.

Of course I'd love to pay less, too. But what's the point in being upset about it? It's just economic reality.

 

[raidermatt]

A1A1- IMHO, you are taking a very sound approach to your decision making process. We all have to evaluate what gives us the best value, and when something becomes cost prohibitive we have to bail out. There's nothing wrong with wanting a discount. I'd love one too. I'm not as skeptical as some, in that I think it very well could happen at some point. I'm just realistic (again, IMHO) about the chances, and the reasons that would make Disney do it.

Johnnie- I think your idea has merit. In fact, I'm sure Disney has considered it in the past. I believe their main reasons for not doing it are:

1- Lost revenue. I'm sure they believe that they would lose more money from customers who would switch from full-day passes, than they would gain from added customers. In order to keep this from happening, they would probably have to charge an hourly rate that would be higher than most customers would be willing to pay.

2- Very difficult to manage. It would be the customer's responsibility to "clock out" when leaving, and I can only guess at the percentage that would forget. Conservatively, I'd say 5%, and 20% wouldn't shock me. Dealing with these customers would be a nightmare. If Disney takes a hard-line, they have a lot of angry customers. If they are lenient, and credit back hours, that's more lost revenue, requiring a further increase in the price.

Just thought of a third reason: Anger over queue lines. We all know long wait times are frustrating, but how much more frustrating would they be if we were paying by the hour? Oh, and here's a fourth. Let's say you have 1 hour left, and you go into the park at Noon. Who is going to ensure you are kicked out at 1:00? Yikes!

 

[nickglover]

synonymous - I don't usually think in "business cases", but I suppose the main reasons for Disney giving us some decent discounts would be to maintain good relations with some of their best customers, to reward loyalty, and to keep us from selling out.

 

[Synonymous]

Nick- I would agree with you if I thought there was any real danger of large numbers of people selling out. Of course, the fact that they are SELLING out means others are buying in, so, again, no real reason for offering incentives.

 

[Muushka]

For the people who wanted to know about the $99 AP at USF/IOA,here is the deal. Until Jan 31, you can purchase an AP at AAA rate (sorry, I really should have stipulated that in my post). It must be activated by some time late Feb 2002 (the 23rd is the concencus). You may then (with active AP) purchase AP (renewal)vouchers for $99 for future use. The renewal passes must be purchased by Jan 31 2002. We are going down in a month, so this is my plan. They also have a buy 2 days, get a 3rd day free deal going on now.
Here is the link with info on both
http://64.225.125.24/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=132162

From what I understand, USF/IOA has more deals on admission prices. I try to keep up with that board also.

.Raidermatt, I don't believe Disney should offer us discounts. It is simply the fact that they do not, so I will therefore not purchase their product. It is a choice that I have made. Disney will some day realize that they have distanced themselves from some DVC members, who have more disposable income than the average bear.

Dadman43- or else I will not spend as much money in their parks that I would have had they made the entrance fees more reasonable. No threats, just action on my part. Like I said, I am no longer angry, I am just changing my "Disney spending habits". In the meantime, I will enjoy our DVC room, they will not have to rent it out.

thedscoop: Huh?? Why are you getting so upset? All I am saying is that I will shop elsewhere. What is wrong with that? Just because I purchased a DVC timeshare, does that mean that I must enter their parks and spend money there? And by the way, I think Disney should lower park admissions for everyone, not just us.

There are some excellent ideas on this post on what Disney could do to entice people such as myself back into the parks. I really hope they read these things.

 

[Dean]

I get the FL discounts so this doesn't affect my costs at all and think it is unreasonable that Disney not extend those discounts to DVC members. Of course they do not have to but they should. I too think it is a business mistake not to give further enticements to members as I see the overall satisfaction level of members slipping or so it seems to me.

Marriott gives members an across the board 25% discount for rentals plus negotiated discounts at local bussiness at many of their resorts.