Why are there no Black princesses? (more)

[WaltD4Me]

Princessess aside, I think Disney does very well in bringing diversity to most of their projects. There is a good mix of shows on the Disney Channel -- look at the popularity of Raven and Penny! And in doing things like the Cinderella movie with Brandy and the Oz movie with Ashanti.

But the main reason for my post is that I am curious, in doing a black princess at Disney World, would it be a princess like Belle or Cinderella in the beautiful castle with the big ball gown or would you prefer a beautiful African princess in traditional African clothing?

I'm not critizing or promoting either, I am really just wondering what would be the prefered reprensentation of a black princess? -- especially to the OP if she is still around?

 

[civileng68]

I'm sure I'll get flamed for this but I feel it is appropriate......................

Regarding Disney creating black characters, sure they likely need to. However, like someone else said, they'd have to do every single race on earth to truly be politically correct.

Secondly............I feel that if you want to be so politically correct that it is insane, you realistically could. I mean figure this..........every single person could be offended by every single thing.

I support adding the african american characters. I really do!

My point though is..............to say that African American children need African American role models is discrimination in it's own right. Why can't GOOD PEOPLE be good role models. Please don't get upset, Im just voicing another opinion. What I hear from the African American community (In many cases, not all) is that color should not seperate people, but yet, the African American community only wants to look up to African American people. I just dont get it. I grew up in such a culturally rich area and I had so many friends of other races that I just guess I'm a little naive to it all.

Probably 9 of 10 of the people I admired most as a child were atheletes and 9 of 10 of those were black. My top 5 role models of all time in my 26 years of life are:

1)Reggie White
2)Colin Powell
3)David Robinson
4)My mom
5)My dad

I just dont see color as a barrier (IN MY PERSONAL LIFE). I know racism exists in this country but I think that to become a better ethnically diverse and acceptable country, we have to stop only looking to our own race as acceptable influences.

I think racism exists all over in this country, however, I think in many cases alot of reverse discrimination exists as well. However, I simly choose not to associate with anyone who does not appreciate me for me. I have so many black friends, one of whom is my best friend and was in my wedding. We dont see color in each other's eyes. I don't see how that is so rediculous.

My point is 2-fold:

1) I agree that Disney should absolutely add more african american characters. I totally agree!

2) My second point however is we should teach our children in the home. We should allow our children to enjoy the characters but I think parents should be the best role models. I just think that while Disney should add more AFrican American characters, we should be teaching our children daily about diversity and that everyone is equal. If this idea was preached in the home, racism WOULD END! the reason racism exists is not because there's no this or that. It's simply that the parents are not effectively teaching their children about it, due to their own personal hang-ups with racism.

Lastly let me say that I think when you speak about racism. I dont think Disney is being racist. I disagree with that. Disney is a VERY left-wing oriented company (just that the left is often concerned about political correctness) that is VERY serious about ethnic diversity. It's just hard as a company like that to do it all. I think that racism also should stopped being linked to an entire race.

I often times feel shunned around some African Americans because of the way OTHER white people have treated them. In my opinion that is what keeps racism alive. When someone treats you wrong, don't treat everyone of that race like they are going to treat you the same way.

One thing to remember is that many white people had slaves, but I was not one of them. I never lived in those days and neither did my parents.

Also what you must realize is that white people are from MANY nationalities and often times you can't tell. Just because I'm white American doesn't mean my ancestors were slave owners. They weren't in fact.

My family has migrated to America well 75% of it, SINCE the slave days ENDED.

My family is primarily German migrants AFTER slave days, and the other part is full blooded Cherokee Indian.'

I just think understanding is lacking in this country. It's really sad.

 

[kimber79]

My granddaughter is mixed race, and I had seen this dilemma arising when she gets a little older. Hopefully Disney catches on soon so all the little princesses can actually feel like little princesses that fit in!

 

[kimber79]

I'm sure I'll get flamed for this but I feel it is appropriate......................

Regarding Disney creating black characters, sure they likely need to. However, like someone else said, they'd have to do every single race on earth to truly be politically correct.

Secondly............I feel that if you want to be so politically correct that it is insane, you realistically could. I mean figure this..........every single person could be offended by every single thing.

I support adding the african american characters. I really do!

My point though is..............to say that African American children need African American role models is discrimination in it's own right. Why can't GOOD PEOPLE be good role models. Please don't get upset

No flames here !! You have a very good solid view point.........thanks for sharing!!! GOOD PEOPLE should be good role models! And in Disney case....some villans make make good role models!

 

[Papa Deuce]

I think I need to bottom line this for all of you. You do not have the right to not be offended. Disney like many other things is a privilege not a right. If there is something Disney is doing or not doing stop going to the parks, stop going to the movies, and stop buying the merchandise

Thanks for setting us staright.

 

[dis ms.]

I really think this thread is going way way over! Do we now need to discuss if Halle Berry is black enough to be considered a beautiful African American? Just a few short years ago the African American community said "If you have one drop of African American in you, you are African American." Now 50% isn't enough?

This is why I dislike the whole PC thing. The rules keep changing and it is impossible to keep up!

I understand what you're saying, but I wasn't saying that Halle Berry isn't black enough to be considered a beautiful African American. My point was that, when people complain about black not being considered beautiful (in the past or present), they are usually talking about traditional black features (e.g., thicker, kinkier hair, etc.) Ms. Berry simply does not have a lot of black features.

FTR, I do consider her black. Therefore, IMHO, she is a beautiful black woman.

 

[pyrxtc]

My granddaughter is mixed race, and I had seen this dilemma arising when she gets a little older. Hopefully Disney catches on soon so all the little princesses can actually feel like little princesses that fit in!

I just need to say

Your grandaughter is beautiful!

 

[babar41]

SnackyStacky... I respectfully say I really don't like the word tolerance. It means that there is something that needs to be tolerated. I don't think we need to tolerate other people because of their skin color, religious belief (or lack of), gender, or sexual orientation. I think we need to enjoy the differences in each of us, get to know people for who they are. Yes, I will agree that our religious beliefs, gender, rearing, sexual orientation, and color help to form us into who we are. But I would much rather "judge" (for lack of a better word) a person by their actions and their heart. The rest is just the cover of the book... I'm interested in the book itself.

 

[Mymatisse]

As an black woman I just want to say that I just can't believe the unwillingness of some people to walk a day in someone elses shoes and look at things from a different perspective. What Disney is saying to all those little black and latina girls out there by not having disney characters who look like them is that they don't count. The standard of beauty is to have pale skin, straight hair, and eurocentric features. They are not even important enough to be represented in a character.

And to the people who say that Disney is not a "right," you're absolutely correct. However I don't understand why the thought of promoting inclusiveness and diversity is a personal afront to some posters. You all act like you are personally giving something up simply in supporting the notion that Disney represent a nice chunk of their market through their characters.

 

[Mymatisse]

I really think this thread is going way way over! Do we now need to discuss if Halle Berry is black enough to be considered a beautiful African American? Just a few short years ago the African American community said "If you have one drop of African American in you, you are African American." Now 50% isn't enough?

This is why I dislike the whole PC thing. The rules keep changing and it is impossible to keep up!

Actually it wasn't the African American community that said if you have one drop of African American in you you are black. That comes from old slave and Jim Crow laws which helped perserve the institution of segregation.


Please get your facts straight.

 

[SnackyStacky]

SnackyStacky... I respectfully say I really don't like the word tolerance. It means that there is something that needs to be tolerated. I don't think we need to tolerate other people because of their skin color, religious belief (or lack of), gender, or sexual orientation. I think we need to enjoy the differences in each of us, get to know people for who they are. Yes, I will agree that our religious beliefs, gender, rearing, sexual orientation, and color help to form us into who we are. But I would much rather "judge" (for lack of a better word) a person by their actions and their heart. The rest is just the cover of the book... I'm interested in the book itself.

I understand what you're saying, but tolerance is not necessarily the noun associated with "to tolerate".

Merriam Webster defines tolerance as: 2 a : sympathy or indulgence for beliefs or practices differing from or conflicting with one's own

Seems to me that there's a lot of intolerance on this thread of those who believe that non-caucasian characters are under-represented in Disney's repertoire.

 

[maleficent1959]

Had to jump in on this one: Static Shock, Green Lantern, Storm, and Cyborg. I'm sure there are more, but I'm not as involved in comic culture as I once was.

Spawn and Blade off the top of my head.

 

[babar41]

Actually it wasn't the African American community that said if you have one drop of African American in you you are black. That comes from old slave and Jim Crow laws which helped perserve the institution of segregation.


Please get your facts straight.

I did get my facts straight. But perhaps I should have said "The African American community in the Milwaukee area said if you have one drop of African American in you you are African American." It did originate from the Jim Crow laws, but just a few short years ago, here in the Milwaukee area it was brought up by the African American community as an accepted fact. This was during the controversy of was Cleopatra black or white.

 

[tinkerbelle_71]

I agree, Disney is missing the boat on this one & better catch up by having a more diversified line up of Princes & Princesses. I think they are moving in that direction, but are not doing it fast enough.

I know that it does bother the children sometimes. My friend's daughter was very sad that she couldn't have beautiful blonde hair & white skin like Cinderella. That just breaks your heart to hear a child say that she can never be a Princess because her skin is dark, it sure broke mine.

That is SOOOO True. Believe me, as the mother of a BEAUTIFUL 4 year old who loves any and everything Disney, you do not know heartbreak until you hear your child say something like that.
However, being the wonderful mommy that I am, I make sure that she is surrounded by examples of beauty in all colors, shapes and backgrounds. ESPICIALLY HERS
Disney is a wonderfully magic place, but it just like the rest of the world is not perfect.
Should they add more African-American, Hispanic, Asian, Native American characters? YES!!! Am I going to lose sleep over it? Ummm NO
But for those of you who seem to think that "others" are making a big fuss over nothing, its only because it is something you dont have to deal with.

 

[MosMom]

There are so many great African stories that could be told through a movie with an African princess. Who knows, they could actually have a hit on their hands again!

 

[babar41]

I understand what you're saying, but tolerance is not necessarily the noun associated with "to tolerate".

Merriam Webster defines tolerance as: 2 a : sympathy or indulgence for beliefs or practices differing from or conflicting with one's own

Seems to me that there's a lot of intolerance on this thread of those who believe that non-caucasian characters are under-represented in Disney's repertoire.

To have sympathy or to indulge someone for their beliefs or practices is to say that there is some flaw in their thoughts. I don't have sympathy or indulge anyone because of their beliefs (or lack of), culture, gender, ... I still say tolerance of someone else for whatever reasons is not the best way of putting what you were trying to say across.

BTW... I love the picture of you and your wife in front of the castle. I've seen it many times! And believe it or not, when I've seen it I have thought "They sure look happy!" I've never thought "Bi-racial marriage".

 

[VSL]

As an black woman I just want to say that I just can't believe the unwillingness of some people to walk a day in someone elses shoes and look at things from a different perspective. What Disney is saying to all those little black and latina girls out there by not having disney characters who look like them is that they don't count. The standard of beauty is to have pale skin, straight hair, and eurocentric features. They are not even important enough to be represented in a character.

What about all the disabled children out there?
And fat people?
And 'ugly' people?

At least they don't use 'black' to mean evil as they have previously associated with ugly/fat/super-skinny characters (Ursula, Malificent, Cruella, Yzma, etc.).

The eurocentric look you describe comes from a time when Disney was making these films (back in the 50's, 60's, etc.), when these things often were considered the standard.

Disney can't do everything at once. Their most recent films haven't done too well because Disney were rushing things and not getting good enough scripts (I'm not including Pixar films as these aren't strictly Disney). Maybe they feel it is too sensitive an issue at the moment to release a black character orientated film (if they were to put even one toe wrong there would be HUGE backlash). Also, maybe they feel that it wouldn't sell.

Also, they HAVE had black characters in some of their films (ie, Brandy in 'Cinderella'), they just haven't been the animated films.

 

[Mymatisse]

I did get my facts straight. But perhaps I should have said "The African American community in the Milwaukee area said if you have one drop of African American in you you are African American." It did originate from the Jim Crow laws, but just a few short years ago, here in the Milwaukee area it was brought up by the African American community as an accepted fact. This was during the controversy of was Cleopatra black or white.

Thanks for the clarification. As this highlights the African American community does not speak with one voice and is diverse in opinon. I had no idea what you were talking about not being from Milwaukee.

 

[Sandy22]

I think it is interesting that so many of the replies are things like - "color doesn't matter"; "it's what the characters represent"; and such. All of these things seem to be coming from whites. As the majority (for now) in the country, it is really easy for us (and yes, I am white) to say that it doesn't matter, because we are used to seeing others who look like us. So of course it doesn't bother us (it is what we expect), but it is thoughtless (at best) for us to say that those of different races should feel the same way. We can only imagine what it must be like for a youngster to never see any characters that look like them. (It certainly sends a not-so-subtle message).

Very well said.

 

[edingerc]

I did get my facts straight. But perhaps I should have said "The African American community in the Milwaukee area said if you have one drop of African American in you you are African American." It did originate from the Jim Crow laws, but just a few short years ago, here in the Milwaukee area it was brought up by the African American community as an accepted fact. This was during the controversy of was Cleopatra black or white.

The heart of this controversy was Plessy v Ferguson (1892). In that Supremem Court decision, the court upheald Louisiana's definition of a man with 1/8 black blood as black. They also upheld that having a 'white reputation' was property and that a black man wasn't entitled to it. This decision plus the Dred Scott one, were the worst travesties of justice that America has perpetrated.

As far a Cleopatra, by the definition of either black or white, she'd be defined as white. She was Alexandrian, which means that she and all her ancestors were directly descended from Macedonian blood. Alexander came from northern Greece, the province of Mecedon. A Nubian, Egyptian, jewish, etc ancestor wouldn't have been acceptible, which is one reason why Pharoh always married his sister.