Why are there no Black princesses? (more)

[curiouser]

The original post seems concerned with "beautiful" black princesses.

Why not ugly? Why don't they have ugly princesses? There are thousands of ugly people out there doing good things in the world (I am one of them). Why aren't fat princesses allowed to do these thing? How about bald princesses? Princesses with big noses? Princesses that walk funny thanks to sports injuries? I have chosen all these because I am an ugly, fat, big-nosed bald guy who limps thanks to surgeries on both knees.

I am sick of PC. I know I will be labeled a hater, but it has gone from wanting an equal stance to wanting retribution to wanting the world on a silver platter. Where does this all end?

oh no... I knew it was only a matter of time before the word "retribution" was uttered... any takers on what time this thread closes?

 

[VSL]

Me too (sick of PC, that is).

Don't know about the US, but some things in the UK have gone way too far with regards to PC.

(Oh, I'd also like to correct my earlier self - Disney have touched on Celtic history/mythology in 'The Sword in The Stone', although they decided to cast every character as English)

 

[RyMickey]

We were at the World just two weeks ago and while we were waiting in line for the last show of the Enchanted Tiki Room, we saw a black family with two sons (aged 6-8) and two younger daughters (aged 3-5). The two sons were dressed up as Peter Pan and Captain Hook and the two girls were both dressed up as Tinker Bell. These kids were having so much fun, posing for pictures and even signing autographs for people. I don't think (in fact, with almost certainty, I can say, I KNOW) that race was not an issue for these kids in choosing a costume to wear. Sometimes I think that parents can be more "sensitive" to these subjects than the kids. To the kids, they are simply living out a fantasy, whereas to the parents the characters seem to "represent" something. Disney, to me, is about leaving the real world behind, and when kids step through that gate, they seem to be able to...it seems that parents aren't.

Also, just wanted to second that I agree with the above poster who said to look to the Disney Channel. "That's So Raven" has just been picked up to air 100 episodes (the first time the Disney Channel has ever ordered more than 65 episodes of a show). "The Proud Family" is still running strong, as well.

 

[babar41]

oh no... I knew it was only a matter of time before the word "retribution" was uttered... any takers on what time this thread closes?

I would guess 5 minutes. Which is sad, but on the other hand, as I'm sure we will hear from our Moderator, this thread really has no place on the "Theme Parks Attractions and Strategies" board.

It is sad, but there are so many "hot" buttons on the subject of race. It is almost impossible to bring it up without feelings getting heated. I would like to remind everyone that everyone is entitled to their opinions and their feelings. We may not all agree, but we can agree to disagree.

 

[edingerc]

The original post seems concerned with "beautiful" black princesses.

Why not ugly? Why don't they have ugly princesses?

Ugly = evil, pretty = good
This is one of the oldest human prejudices. Look at the story of Mary Shelley's Frankenstein. The "monster" has good intentions and leans towards good. It's the reactions of the townspeople to the "evil monster" that made him act evilly.

For years, black people weren't considered beautiful. You look at a movie, here's a white actress defined as beautiful. The closer you look to that definition, the more beautiful you are. Even black characters that were supposed to be beautiful were often played by white actresses with dyed skin. If you don't see your ethnic group defined as beautiful in the entertainment media, it's hard to identify yourself with that label.

"Black is beautiful" was a rallying cry and an acknowlegment by black people that even though popular media might not think it, they ARE beautiful.

Think it's changed? When the news media wanted to make OJ Simpson look more guilty, they darkened his skin in a picture. How messed up is that?

 

[pyrxtc]

i'm sorry, but a lot of this is ridiculouness. You should be teaching your children to have hero's based on who they are, not what they look like. You don't see a lot of different things in Disney stuff but that doesn't mean you won't or can't make your daughter as beautiful as the princesses. My favorite version of Cinderella is the one with Brandy as the star. The prince is gorgeous and reminds me of my husband. I don't think that any of these stories are meant to come off as racist but when the story was illistrated, that's what they drew the princesses to look like. They also made all the bad people and castle workers white too.

I think when some of the stories were originally written, some of them were about people who were not caucasion. Does Aroura sound like something a white person would name their child back in the day? I don't think so. I think even snow white may have been of mixed race because how many people that white have jet black hair? How many white people have such melodic voices? Where are the pooh size princesses? We all see it how we want to or were taught to.

I grew up with semi-racist parents but had a good share of my boyfriends who were not white like us. My first husband was white but italian (god-forbid) but he turned out to be a jerk. My DH is asian and when I started seeing him my father actually said to me "I told you no nigga's or spics but never said nothing about Chincs so I guess I can't yell too much" I couldn't believe my ears. My DH is now 'The favorite son' My dad praises him often to DH and to his own friends.

I don't mean an of the above words derrogetory in any way. One of biggest regrets in ex-boyfriends is one who was from Puerto Rice. I have dated someone from almost every race because they were great people not because of their color. I teach my kids to accept people for who they are and race never comes up except for when I am encouraging them to learn more about their own heritages. We have friends from everywhere and all different looks. The ones who I least understand are the ones who make skin color a major deal. What about all the black people who are not black? Are they represented.

Minorities are no longer always minorities. In school, I was the minority, over 300 graduates and only about 20% were caucasion.

look at Disneyto have fun, not for recognition or representation or your child may follow in your footsteps instead of just being able to enjoy the moment. who was the first person to point out the difference between your DD and the princesses? Maybe you could point out the similiar hair colors or actions. When my kids ever point out an obvious difference between them selves and anybody, I just say that God made everyone different so we could tell each other apart. They don't care about black or white or asian. I have never heard them refer to someone as my black friend or white friend and my oldest is 11.

 

[dis ms.]

I HONESTLY THINK THAT THINGS WILL BEGIN TO CHANGE FOR MINORITIES, WHEN MINORITIES KNOCK THE CHIP OFF THERE OWN SHOULDERS AND STOP EXPECTED EVERYONE TO CATER TO THEM AND STOP ASSUMING THAT EVERYONE IS TRYING TO LEAVE THEM OUT. -and scene-

it has gone from wanting an equal stance to wanting retribution to wanting the world on a silver platter.

Is this for real? Where's Ashton Kutcher? Am I being "punk'd"?

 

[cindyfan]

Sorry I haven't had a chance to read all 6 pages and my comments/opinions may have already been stated...but....

I have often wondered why there weren't more characters with "color" too.
I feel way back when....when Disney films started....it just followed the path of society.
And it is tough to break old habits.
But I think Disney has been heading in the right direction over the past 15-20 years. It is just a slow road.
My great grandfather was American Indian and I loved that they made Pocahantas.... however, I have very mixed feelings about the film, really not one of my favorites. But they tried.
I LOVE Mulan!! She was a true hero in that film!
And when Disney did the live action version of Cinderella with Brandy...loved that!
So they are slowly headed in the right direction!

 

[emnrich]

Ugly = evil, pretty = good
"Black is beautiful" was a rallying cry and an acknowlegment by black people that even though popular media might not think it, they ARE beautiful.

Two words: Halle Berry

I teach my DD that people are beautiful. Just gotta learn how to "look".

 

[weeyore33]

i have a dance studio abd we have posters of the disney princesses and we had this discussion like 3 weeks ago we were all wondering why there was no black prince/princess, we couldnt even think of a movie...hmmmm

 

[VSL]

I think when some of the stories were originally written, some of them were about people who were not caucasion. Does Aroura sound like something a white person would name their child back in the day? I don't think so. I think even snow white may have been of mixed race because how many people that white have jet black hair? How many white people have such melodic voices? Where are the pooh size princesses? We all see it how we want to or were taught to.

The Grimm brothers wrote the vast majority of fairytales in their original form. The Grimm brothers were German so I imagine that they envisioned most of their characters as caucasian.

I imagine Disney (amongst some other sources) have embellished these stories more than a bit (the originals are a little gruesome!).
For example, the Grimm brothers never named Sleeping Beauty 'Aurora', but 'Brier-Rose'.

Also, I think it's a little unfair to generalise 'melodic voices' to black people - not every black person can sing, and I'm white I'm a vocalist

 

[edingerc]

Things that shame me about the history of entertainment:

Orson Welles playing Othello
Al Jolson
That the only acceptible black image America found acceptible was a 60+ year old man (Bill "Bojangles" Robinson) playing second fiddle to a 6 year old girl (Shirley Temple)
Brando playing the sly Okinowan lead in Teahouse of the August moon
American Indians being played by tanned or dyed white guys

Something I never understood in entertainment:
In Kung Fu, Kane would walk into a town and instantly be recognized as Chinese and be called racial epithets. I used to say to myself, "Huh? He's as white as I am." Little did I know that the real bigotry was behind the scenes.... Sorry Mr Bruce Lee, you would've done MUCH better than David Caradine, playing the lead role in the storyline that you dreamed up!

 

[dis ms.]

Two words: Halle Berry

I teach my DD that people are beautiful. Just gotta learn how to "look".

Halle Berry? One word: biracial

I agree, she's gorgeous. However, because she is caucasian and black, she does not have a lot of black features. Several famous black women considered to be beautiful today have (at least some) caucasian features.

 

[edingerc]

Oh, and here's one that gets me upset every time I think of it:

Martha Wash had an incredible voice and was featured in the C+C Music Factory hit, "Gonna Make you Sweat" (she sings, 'Everybody dance now!'). However, when it came to the video of the song, she's not in it. They replaced her with a thin model.

Martha Wash is also known as one of the two Weather Girls ("it's raining Men") and is very much a 'full figured woman." But that wasn't pretty enough for the video.

 

[SnackyStacky]

Why can't you live in a world where color doesn't matter? The only person that it seems to matter to is you. Also, I don't know if you watch the news or not but I believe it is up to 7 states now that caucasian is in the minority. Why is it that the only people that take race into consideration are people of color? It makes me angry that people believe that everyone is against them. Minorities are offered the sam benefits, jobs, and opportunities that majorities are offered. I hate using this as an example, but look at college scholarships, I don't see any "Caucasian scholarships" but I do believe there are quite a few "African-American" scholarships. Is this fair to caucasians that there are scholarships offered to strictly black high school students? No its not! I HONESTLY THINK THAT THINGS WILL BEGIN TO CHANGE FOR MINORITIES, WHEN MINORITIES KNOCK THE CHIP OFF THERE OWN SHOULDERS AND STOP EXPECTED EVERYONE TO CATER TO THEM AND STOP ASSUMING THAT EVERYONE IS TRYING TO LEAVE THEM OUT. -and scene-

I'm going to issue a warning first. This is a really touchy subject, and it will remain civil, or it will be closed.

There are a lot of narrow-minded responses. Notice I didn't say RACIST, I said narrow-minded - because a lot of people aren't looking at things through somebody else's viewpoint.

I used to share a lot of the feelings that many have expressed on this thread - but then I married a black woman, and my thinking changed because I was exposed to something totally different.

As has been stated already - the majority that share the "It doesn't matter!" viewpoint are probably white. And I think it's WONDERFUL that this can be looked at from the viewpoint that skin color doesn't matter. But in the end - it really does matter. True tolerance can only come when everybody understands that the viewpoints we're expressing come from totally different places.

When I listen to my grandparents tell stories about their lives growing up, it's a COMPLETELY different experience than when I listen to my WIFE'S grandparents telling stories about their growing up. And you know what? That kind of history is going to be passed from generation to generation - black, white, hispanic, asian, jewish, native american - EVERYBODY! And you know what else? I will gladly join in with those who are saying that Disney DOES need to start representing the black population so much better. And the hispanic population, and the asian population - and every other nation that doesn't look white! Because little kids need to balance those stories from the past with strong role models.

Yes Disney is magical, and yes it should provide escapism - but shouldn't it do that for EVERYBODY? Do the people that have a different skin tone need to be reminded on THEIR escapist vacation AGAIN that they're in the minority? Just because YOU don't think those thoughts doesn't mean that others don't think those thoughts - AND that there's nothing wrong with having those thoughts.

 

[pyrxtc]

The Grimm brothers wrote the vast majority of fairytales in their original form. The Grimm brothers were German so I imagine that they envisioned most of their characters as caucasian.

I imagine Disney (amongst some other sources) have embellished these stories more than a bit (the originals are a little gruesome!).
For example, the Grimm brothers never named Sleeping Beauty 'Aurora', but 'Brier-Rose'.

Also, I think it's a little unfair to generalise 'melodic voices' to black people - not every black person can sing, and I'm white I'm a vocalist

I never said there wre no white women who can sing, we all know they can (look at society).
Not all Germans are white and it was often said that the grimm brothers were ahead of their time so perhaps they didn't see them all as white. Theyt wrote stories about folktales but never said where these stories originated. Most cultures have their own Cinderella story. The Grimm brothers just adapted one for themselves.

 

[ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!]

out of curiosity, how did this get up to 7 pages without being moved to the general discussion forum? this doesnt seem like the right place for this thread.

either way, carry on

 

[SnackyStacky]

out of curiousity, how did this get up to 7 pages without being moved to the general discussion forum? this doesnt seem like the right place for this thread.

either way, carry on

Cause my computer is slow, and I wanted to respond before I moved it!

 

[babar41]

I really think this thread is going way way over! Do we now need to discuss if Halle Berry is black enough to be considered a beautiful African American? Just a few short years ago the African American community said "If you have one drop of African American in you, you are African American." Now 50% isn't enough?

This is why I dislike the whole PC thing. The rules keep changing and it is impossible to keep up!

 

[FormerH8er]

I think I need to bottom line this for all of you. You do not have the right to not be offended. Disney like many other things is a privilege not a right. If there is something Disney is doing or not doing stop going to the parks, stop going to the movies, and stop buying the merchandise