Why are there no Black princesses? (more)

[Bete]

My understanding of Epcot/World Showcase is a country has to be willing to support a pavillion. Disney will give the space, but each pavillion is run by a country supporting it or another company doing it. As an example, the King of Morroco allowed many artisans to come and build their pavillion. Disney World didn't pay for it. Money talks when it comes to these WS pavillions. Remember, foremost Disney is a business.

Although the representation of the real world could be better overall, I agree with another post that it starts with the characters in the movies. Disney needs to match the characters depicted in their movies at Disney World. Unfortunately, Disney is also a business. Based on our U.S. population and the following of park guests coming to Disney World, as well as, the movies; it's probably a fair representation. Take a look at the other Disney parks throughout the real world; they feature the area's culture, etc. the most.

I think all cultures have to make an effort to enjoy those places that are specific to them. I would stay at Animal Kingdom Lodge or at least visit it for a meal. If you take a walk around the lobby areas of this resort, the culture comes out loud and clear, especially at Christmas time with their tree. Jiko's and Boma's are among our favorite restaurants. MK will be the least representative while AK will have the most for the black culture. There are toys and souvenirs that depict the culture, too.

If you consider other amusement parks, etc. I think Disney does a pretty good job overall.

 

[WendyMichaelJohn]

Don't forget Frozone.

 

[jann1033]

Finally, as for your last point. Research has shown pretty clearly, that in the United States most children of color do see color differences from an early age. As to why we can't let white children continue to grow up without seeing color, it's only when people become conscious of color that they can notice and work against patterns of racism in this society.[/QUOTE]

not so sure this is true....i do agree kids need to have heros of any/all colors but to seperate into colors just insures racism imo. i e he isn't a good or bad man due to his color but due to his character. i do realize ( i am white) many african americans ( like my dd'd bf & my best friend) have had totally different experiences due to their color than me ( ie i was never chased with a broom by a mean old woman due to my color like my friend was when she was a tiny girl) and i do think racism is alive and well in movies , animated or not which is ridiculous . An african princess is a good idea and if there is one in the lion king already they need to make use of her more. I think the male lead is in the parade (or one parade, don't really remember which) so why not have her there and at a breakfast/meal. they could promote it no problem. i mean if mary poppins is there when did she become a big name princess? same with pochahontis( sp) ect,( don't think she is at a breakfast/meal) just make the ones they have more visible and they wouldn't have that problem

 

[curiouser]

My understanding of Epcot/World Showcase is a country has to be willing to support a pavillion. Disney will give the space, but each pavillion is run by a country supporting it or another company doing it. As an example, the King of Morroco allowed many artisans to come and build their pavillion. Disney World didn't pay for it. Money talks when it comes to these WS pavillions. Remember, foremost Disney is a business.

This is true, the country does have to offer some financial assistance to having a pavillion in WS.

Also, I heard a rumor once that Disney was in talks to add South African pavillion many, many years ago. Then the whole uproar of apartheid happened and Disney scrapped that idea because of the political conflict.

 

[THESCHULTZFIVE]

I want to pose a question. Do characters at Disney really play that important a role in the development of our children? Does the type of characters that children see when they go to Disney theme parks really effect what our children become? I grew up going to Disney and I know that I must have had a favorite character and I don't even remember it now, therefore, I know that it played no effect on my life. So I think we should ask ourselves, are we really getting on this soapbox, to try and "get role models that are of the same color as our children or in the minority", or is this an opportunity for us to express our displeasure (as petty as it may be) with things in the world around us. If anything, we should take the example from the character's story...they all had to overcome great struggle, not by writing whiny pointless letters or emails, but by finding solutions to the problems at hand and finding ways to make the world around them a better place. I think the greatest role model for your children is their parents, and they will take up the attitude that everyone owes you something, whether it be something as simple as a minority disney character and this will be past down for generations to come. If nothing changes, then nothing changes. Why not start with yourself and then issues like this won't matter to your children.

It's not about role models, it's about representation.

 

[edingerc]

Did you know James Basket an African American was the first live actor to be hired by Walt Disney. --

Even though Hattie McDaniel as a black actress won one of the first Best Supporting Actress Oscars, black actors/actresses were still marginalized or were completely invisible after Gone With the Wind. Her portayal of a black governess instead of must a "Mammy" was unique for the time and for years afterwards.

Also, it's ironic to bring up James Baskett as an icon, as the movie that he's famous for, "Song of the South," is widely considered as "Disney does slavery" and is almost impossible to buy now in the US.

Looking at Mufaro's Beautiful Daughters, it looks like exactly the right story and tone that Disney should do as a movie. Now, is it famous enough to get the audiences in the seats? I don't know.

And as far as Hispanic princesses go, again this is about literature. How many strong women can be found in well-known Hispanic stories? Disney can't do a story about Queen Isabella, as her story is far too religeous to be palatable. And let's face it, Disney did Zorro very early on, and nobody's as cool as he is! The only ones that come close are The Three Musketeers, and it takes four of them to be as cool as one Zorro!

 

[DisneyJen0504]

To understand what's going on here, first look at the princesses: Snow White, Cinderella, Jasmine, Belle, The Little Mermaid. Each one of these was from a well-known and proven story. Disney is all about making sure that their movies do well in the box office and proven stories mean guarenteed audiences.

The fact is, that the lack of minorities at Disney is a reflection of a lack of minorities in junior fiction. What they need are stories with minorities in the forefront, that they think can bet $200 million on.

Disney has no problem with changing with the times. Look at Cinderella and Snow Whilte: neither of these characters Acted, they reacted. Jasmine, Belle, Pocohontas, The Little Mermaid and Nala were all strong female characters who knew what they wanted and acted to change their environments. Quite a change from female characters who were simply decorative or servile.

Well said.

 

[crazymomof4]

Do characters at Disney really play that important a role in the development of our children? Does the type of characters that children see when they go to Disney theme parks really effect what our children become? I grew up going to Disney and I know that I must have had a favorite character and I don't even remember it now, therefore, I know that it played no effect on my life. So I think we should ask ourselves, are we really getting on this soapbox, to try and "get role models that are of the same color as our children or in the minority", or is this an opportunity for us to express our displeasure (as petty as it may be) with things in the world around us. If anything, we should take the example from the character's story...they all had to overcome great struggle, not by writing whiny pointless letters or emails, but by finding solutions to the problems at hand and finding ways to make the world around them a better place. I think the greatest role model for your children is their parents, and they will take up the attitude that everyone owes you something, whether it be something as simple as a minority disney character and this will be past down for generations to come. If nothing changes, then nothing changes. Why not start with yourself and then issues like this won't matter to your children.

Very true!!

Also, I think children (of ALL skin colors) can be raised to not look at people in terms of skin color, or any other physical attribute, but rather in terms of who the person is.....how they live their lives and what they represent. My DS13 is caucasian and loves baseball. Would it be wrong for him to have Hank Arron, Roberto Clemente or Willie Mays as a role model? I certainly would encourage that over him trying emulate some of the actions of some white men currently playing the sport!

Just the other day my DD4 got a dark-skinned doll in a Kid's Meal. Did I toss it aside bc. the doll does not look like my blonde caucasian DD? NO! In fact the color of the doll's skin was never even mentioned by DD or myself. It's not important.

Basically, I guess I believe that your role models don't have to LOOK like you. How you appear on the outside is not WHO YOU ARE.

One could really carry this out to an extreme. What about people who have children in wheelchairs? There are no Disney Princesses in wheelchairs either.

 

[Viki]

I'm white, but both of my now teenage children are African American and they most certainly have always looked for respresentation of their racial and cultural heritage. They are not obsessive about it, but its natural for them, as it is for any race, and when you're in the minority (and your mommies are white), I can only imagine it's even more important.

So, yes, I think it would be a good thing if disney went outside their comfort zone on this one.

On the other hand, let me add this. We were in WDW on Sept 11th and for that whole week there was no place else we wanted to be, because whether they intended it or not, WDW, is a WORLD community and it was a blessing to be surrounded by a world community that week of all weeks.

 

[deltachi8]

Positive role models start in the home. Black, white, red, greem, it all starts in the home. Disney is fluff (fun, and all, dont get me wrong), but if anyone uses Disney as a way to reflect society or for role models for their children, they need to dig a little deeper.

That being said, I think EPCOT could do a better job with an African representation. One of my favorite things is the AFrican story telling at the outpost.

I belive Animal Kingdom, the newest of the parks, does an excellent job.

 

[Cindy B]

I wish there was more representation of all races.

I do love FOTLK and the whole idea that Animal Kingdom represents. I do wish there was an empowered woman (doesn't need to be princess) to represent that culture.

Some people don't like the princesses.

 

[WedwayRocks]

It's not about role models, it's about representation.

Im confused, what difference does it make? Why should it matter if your race is represented in a silly childrens parade, it's not for you, its for your children and if they aren't bothered by it, why should you?

It sounds to me that people are getting upset just for the sake of getting upset. Choose your battles, you are instilling these bad mindsets into your children and they will grow up feeling that the world owes them something, just like a lot of adults feel.

 

[mom2lilandem]

We saw Cinderellabration 4 times back in March/April and at every show there was a black "princess" and "prince". Maybe there weren't any black dancers available during your stay.

 

[babar41]

Also, it's ironic to bring up James Baskett as an icon, as the movie that he's famous for, "Song of the South," is widely considered as "Disney does slavery" and is almost impossible to buy now in the US.

I'm glad someone brought up "Song of the South"! I always loved this story, and you are right it is impossible to buy in the US. Could someone please explain to me why? It can't be the slavery issue because Gone With The Wind is still out there. Plus the story line never brings up slavery, it is never clear if this was during slave times or if Uncle Remus and others were itenerant workers. It can't be because African Americans were portrayed in an unfavorable light, because Uncle Remus was a very wise man, by far the wisest in the story! This story was full of love and I think it is very sad that it is unavailable.

 

[Shinji]

This is not a flame but, I think this thread is hilarious. I must be colorblind because the character's race never even occured to me. Besides, Snow White, Cinderella, Belle, and The Little Mermaid are all stories from Europe and (Jasmine - middle east - Mulan, far east - Pocohontas, Native America).

You want an African prince or princess? Get busy writing a compelling princess story that takes place in Africa.

The posters on this board that plead for 'diversity for diversity's sake' are funny too. The characters are not about the color of their skin or the way they talk. The characters are made up by their good-natured actions and the hardships they overcome. This gives them merit that hopefully we can all relate to, regardless of race, color, sex, religion or sexual orientation. (A phrase for those of you clinging hopelessly to the P.C. Fad of the 90's)

As far as the color of the park cast member/character actors, Make them purple or Green. It is usally the clothes they wear that clues who they are anyway. A Little Mermaid with an orange face, hair, and hands will still be easily identified by the top she wears. A purple snow white would still be recognizable by costume as well.

Disney is about overcoming hardship(typically defeating evil), dreaming, magic and happy endings.
I dream about the day when all people can look beyond racial differences and focus on the storytelling.

(Hey! this mickey icon is too pink! I still recognize it as Mickey Mouse, do you? It must be the Ears...)

 

[curiouser]

You know this thread also kind of makes me chuckle, since an African American princess would probably be the most accurately portrayed "minority princess" in WDW.. Half of the time when I see Mulan she's usually some white girl, and Pocahontas is nine of ten times asian. Oh and lets not even GO there with the hideously over-tanned white girls playing Jasmine!!

 

[DannyDisneyFreak]

Also, it's ironic to bring up James Baskett as an icon, as the movie that he's famous for, "Song of the South," is widely considered as "Disney does slavery" and is almost impossible to buy now in the US.

This is the problem, if disney did make a movie with a black prince, and a black princess some idiot out there would put it under the magnifying glass, disect it, pull it apart and blame Disney for being sterotypical and racist and what ever else they can blame them for.
Here are some quotes from the link I have below:

Song of the South, a 1946 Disney film mixing animation and live action, was based on the "Uncle Remus" stories of Joel Chandler Harris. Harris, who had grown up in Georgia during the Civil War, spent a lifetime compiling and publishing the tales told to him by former slaves. These stories -- many of which Harris learned from an old Black man he called "Uncle George" -- were first published as columns in The Atlanta Constitution and were later syndicated nationwide and published in book form. Harris's Uncle Remus was a fictitious old slave and philosopher who told entertaining fables about Br'er Rabbit and other woodland creatures in a Southern Black dialect.

Perhaps lost in all the controversy over the film is the fact that James Baskett, a Black man, was the very first live actor ever hired by Disney. Allegedly, though, Baskett was unable to attend the film's premiere in Atlanta because no hotel would give him a room.

http://www.snopes.com/disney/films/sots.htm

 

[Disneyrsh]

For me, this photo represents part of the magic of Disney.

That's my younger daughter.

For me it's pretty simple; we're all human beings, we treat each other with dignity and respect, and everyone is different somehow, it's part of our humanity.

 

[lovethattink]

Perhaps Disney needs to send people to some of the story telling festivals around the country. Each year we go to the Homeland Story Telling Festival. This is located about 30 min south of Winterhaven. It's usually held in the fall. There are storytellers from around the country and from other countries. We've heard wonderful stories about children in the Carribbean, Africa, USA, etc. So yes, there are some wonderful tails out there.

As I began to read the threads, I thought about the Hunchback of Notre Dame show that use to be at MGM. My son was about 5 years old and he was very concerned about Esmeralda. He noticed that her eyes weren't the same as in his movie. In his movies she had great big eyes and in the show she had squinty eyes. So I guess children are more sensitive to the appearances of the characters, than, perhaps, we realize.

I saddens me that a child would feel inferior or like they don't fit in because a Disney Princess does not look like them. There are so many other "minorities" not represented as a Disney Princess. Maybe I'm wrong, but I sure don't remember any handicapped princesses, or chronic illness, etc. My niece was born with one hand. Until Nemo, I can't remember where a character had any kind of disability in a Disney movie. She could relate to Nemo and getting through the tube, because it was kind of like that for her to play baseball. People thought she couldn't do it with one hand. She can and she's darn good.

I can kind of relate to the poster who posted about it not mattering about the color of skin. My parents raised me to know that there is nobody out there who is better than me. On the other hand, they also raised me to know that I am not better than anyone else out there either. I wasn't taught tolerance at home either. I was taught love, to love others as I love myself. With tolerance, there is compromise and with compromise, someone always gets the short end of the deal.

 

[jann1033]

i wonder what the color lines are on this thread...i am guessing those who feel "it's no big deal"are white while those who don't feel "it's no big deal" aren't or know how hurtful it is to those who aren't...i think the op's point was more along the lines her god daughter didn't identify with a fair skinned blond/brunette so why not have more characters not of the same type imo a good idea...everyone who goes to disney is not a white american...course i am and don't look like Cinderella either)!)