Why are there no Black princesses? (more)

[Ready to go in Ok]

JMHO, but I am wondering if everyong who says that color doesn't matter, and the fact that 95% of the princesses are white doesn't matter........are you white? It is easy to have an opinion that race doesn't matter when your race is the dominant race, or dominantly portrayed race. Sorry for the soapbox, and like I said, JMHO.

 

[paladin]

I think it is interesting that so many of the replies are things like - "color doesn't matter"; "it's what the characters represent"; and such. All of these things seem to be coming from whites. As the majority (for now) in the country, it is really easy for us (and yes, I am white) to say that it doesn't matter, because we are used to seeing others who look like us. So of course it doesn't bother us (it is what we expect), but it is thoughtless (at best) for us to say that those of different races should feel the same way. We can only imagine what it must be like for a youngster to never see any characters that look like them. (It certainly sends a not-so-subtle message).

I would love to live in world that color doesn't matter and a discussion like this would not even have to take place, but we aren't there yet, so I think it is important for there to be talks like this.

 

[edingerc]

Also, I think children (of ALL skin colors) can be raised to not look at people in terms of skin color, or any other physical attribute, but rather in terms of who the person is.....

One of the strong arguments against "seperate but equal" schooling were studies with black children and very early race identification. They said that white dolls and good attributes and black dolls had bad ones. They said overwhelmingly that they would rather be the white doll than the black one.

Race identification is a part of self identification. It's a completely natural process and isn't good or bad, in and of itself. A child likes role models that they can aspire to be and one that looks like them seems more attainable. And a child that sees an absense of role models that they can identify with, it makes them wonder about the "worth" of their own ethnicity.

Every culture deserves to be celebrated, just as each has shameful episodes in its past. I served my country in the military for 20 years and am incredibly proud of it, and yet it has many things in its past that shame me to the core. Celebrate the positive, learn from the shameful.

 

[WedwayRocks]

I would love to live in world that color doesn't matter and a discussion like this would not even have to take place, but we aren't there yet, so I think it is important for there to be talks like this.

Why can't you live in a world where color doesn't matter? The only person that it seems to matter to is you. Also, I don't know if you watch the news or not but I believe it is up to 7 states now that caucasian is in the minority. Why is it that the only people that take race into consideration are people of color? It makes me angry that people believe that everyone is against them. Minorities are offered the sam benefits, jobs, and opportunities that majorities are offered. I hate using this as an example, but look at college scholarships, I don't see any "Caucasian scholarships" but I do believe there are quite a few "African-American" scholarships. Is this fair to caucasians that there are scholarships offered to strictly black high school students? No its not! I HONESTLY THINK THAT THINGS WILL BEGIN TO CHANGE FOR MINORITIES, WHEN MINORITIES KNOCK THE CHIP OFF THERE OWN SHOULDERS AND STOP EXPECTED EVERYONE TO CATER TO THEM AND STOP ASSUMING THAT EVERYONE IS TRYING TO LEAVE THEM OUT. -and scene-

 

[Disneyrsh]

Hey, whoa, I'm white (freakishly so) and I think color's VERY important.

But the big and very important difference is, I don't think ONE color is very important, I think they're ALL very important.

It's when one culture starts thinking they're more important than another culture, then that's when the trouble starts. No matter what color you are, you have important heroes and important history.

I think I'm using the word important too much, it's starting to look weird.

And while I'm fascinated with my brutish and tempermental Scottish ancestors, I'm equally as fascinated by Assyrian and Nubian history, even though they're not my ancestors, it's just as fascinating and, um, important.

I believe firmly, and I teach my kids this, that you're a human first, and then you look at the history of cultures, how environmental effects created physical differences, and what can be learned from each area of the world.

Anything else is just ephemeral social politics.

 

[PrincessA]

In response to the OP original question, I totally agree. I also agree that we shouldn't focus just on African Americans but all the minority groups that have yet to be represented.

Although, when it comes to Disney, I think they are concerned about the bottom line. Whether or not it is profitable to feature an African American/Hispanic princesses?

From a personal standpoint, I have only a son and the characters clothes that I choose for him to wear are animals (Mickey, Donald, Goofy, etc.) or Frozone.

As far as my niece goes, I can truly relate to the OP post. I have never bought her anything with the princesses on them and we don't really get into the whole princess thing often. When we do, we automatically choose Mulan or Jasmine (minorities). It was just hard for me to encourage my niece to dress up as a blond hair, blue eyed woman when she is far from that. Because I understand that the world is not a perfect place, I know that there is a better chance of me paying .99 /per gallon of gas than for Disney to create a movie with a Black princess. I could even see them making a Hispanic princess before a Black princess.

Because I absolutely loooove WDW, and because I spend so much of my hard earned money there, I wish that Blacks have more representation. i absolutely loved the FOTL. I also cry whenever i see it because I am so proud to see it. I agree that this is a good representation, but it isn't enough. There are many stories that could easily be black/hispanic based and you don't even have to come up with a princess story. For example--The Incredibles could have been Black/Hispanic as well as Woody or Buzz. I personally don't even need a black Princess just a major black character.

On the other hand, I applaud the Disney channel for Raven, The Proud Family and the other African Americans on the channel. When I see Raven merchandise I always buy because I am so happy that it features someone that my niece can really relate.

As for all of the black characters that you all mentioned that are in the parks, As a black person, I really see them as token blacks. There are no major black characters found in the parks.

Even to further explore race and WDW. I hate when we are the only black family on the bus, or a tour, or at the restaurant and everyone stares/looks at you. If you are staring, I make it a point to stare back so that you will realize what you are doing. Although it is kinda hard to stare at the whole bus! There may be a smidge of paranoia in there. (Who said I was perfect?)But I put up with it because I love WDW.

In closing -- I know that we can't look at the world in black and white!!!! It just can't work that way. And there have been a few times when I have bought or liked some things that feature white characters just because! Of course the kids that I bring take pics with the princesses as well. But as an African American, I would LOOOOVE for there to be at least one major character (doesn't even have to be a princess)for African American kids to relate to in the parks.

Love Ya, Mean It!

By the way, I am doing the double digit dance. We will be there Labor Day weekend!!! I am soooooo excited. By the way, Can we get some black smilies here!!! (Just kidding)

 

[Jobie]

I just got back from 8 nights 9 days in WDW with my son, my best friend, and her daughter (my goddaughter). We had a wonderful trip and enjoyed so many things. One thing I found really frustrating, however, was the lack of Black characters and cast members for the kids to admire. Although I've heard it said that Disney makes every little girl feel like a princess, I felt like my beautiful goddaughter got a clear message that princesses don't look like she does.

Ideally, I'd like to see Disney put out some movies with Black lead characters, but even without that happening it seems like they missed a lot of opportunities to make children of African descent feel included.

Specifically, why can't they cast a Black woman as one of the princesses at the ball in Cinderellabration? Why can't they have a show in Animal Kingdom or at Animal Kingdom Lodge that features at beautiful Black princess? Why isn't there a "real" pavillion in World Showcase (as opposed to an "outpost") from Kenya, or Jamaica, or Botswana or any other country where the people have dark skin? That way you could feature some beautiful Black dancers or other artists (in the same way that the Japan pagoda had a woman in a beautiful kimono the day we were there?) And why did the show at the American pavillion leave out so many great African Americans (even Martin Luther King didn't warrant an animatronic figure).

I am not going to take a side on this one, becuase I understand both views of the topic. But I would like to pose a question: Which is worse Disney not casting any black leads, becuase they have just not thought of it or in the case of Cinderellabration, they cast just one black female becuase they have to or their black guests think they are being rascist? I personally think that both cases are racsists. When the immagennerrs (sp) come together to plan new movies, new characters, new whatever and if minority groups do not come up, it is becuase they do not think about them in their subconsious or whatever. Living in a "white" media society, it isn't easy to think about the other races, especially if you are white, becuase you are fed on white media and never consider that it bothers other races. On the other hand, if I was a minority and I knew that they casted a person of my race, just so they have the all the racsists covered, especially when these other "roles" with a minority are so small, I would be offended beucase it would seem as if Disney seemed obligated to give a role to the minority, rather than whatever dancer actually performed the best for the role. I am not trying to step on anybody's toes here, I am just trying to take a look at both sides. Me being white, it is really hard to understand or know how it feels, the only thing that comes close is the teasing that I recieved as a child. What need to become thouhg is a soceity that it truly colored blind, where any race can advertise, and we never think about the color of his/her skin just about the product. And a soceity where race never plays a role to who gets hired, but only thoes who are best for the job, rather it be white, hispanic, asian, african, native, what have ya.

Jobie

 

[babar41]

Every culture deserves to be celebrated, just as each has shameful episodes in its past. I served my country in the military for 20 years and am incredibly proud of it, and yet it has many things in its past that shame me to the core. Celebrate the positive, learn from the shameful.

Well said! I really like "Celebrate the positive, learn from the shameful."

By the way, I'm an Army brat. My Dad was a "lifer" and I was always very proud of him.

 

[DannyDisneyFreak]

Hey, whoa, I'm white (freakishly so) and I think color's VERY important.

But the big and very important difference is, I don't think ONE color is very important, I think they're ALL very important.

It's when one culture starts thinking they're more important than another culture, then that's when the trouble starts. No matter what color you are, you have important heroes and important history.

I think I'm using the word important too much, it's starting to look weird.

I agree, if color wasn't important no one would have started this thread and no one would have replied.

 

[edingerc]

I would love to live in world that color doesn't matter and a discussion like this would not even have to take place, but we aren't there yet, so I think it is important for there to be talks like this.

Ursula K LeGuinn wrote a book called, The Left Hand of God. The main character was white and felt the pressure of being in a mixed-culture relationship. He also made wishes that came true. He wished that prejudice didn't exist. Everyone turned grey and his girlfriend disappeared. That was because she WAS black. Black wasn't just her skin color, she felt her ancestry.

We should not discriminate due to color. However, we shouldn't live colorblind either. A white child shouldn't look at a black child and see another white child. They should see someone who might have a different point of view and that their point of view is just as valid. It's not scarry for children to learn about other cultures, it's exciting and adventurous.

 

[Ready to go in Ok]

Why can't you live in a world where color doesn't matter? The only person that it seems to matter to is you. Also, I don't know if you watch the news or not but I believe it is up to 7 states now that caucasian is in the minority. Why is it that the only people that take race into consideration are people of color? It makes me angry that people believe that everyone is against them. Minorities are offered the sam benefits, jobs, and opportunities that majorities are offered. I hate using this as an example, but look at college scholarships, I don't see any "Caucasian scholarships" but I do believe there are quite a few "African-American" scholarships. Is this fair to caucasians that there are scholarships offered to strictly black high school students? No its not! I HONESTLY THINK THAT THINGS WILL BEGIN TO CHANGE FOR MINORITIES, WHEN MINORITIES KNOCK THE CHIP OFF THERE OWN SHOULDERS AND STOP EXPECTED EVERYONE TO CATER TO THEM AND STOP ASSUMING THAT EVERYONE IS TRYING TO LEAVE THEM OUT. -and scene-

You left me speechless.

 

[paladin]

Just what I was going to say!

 

[WedwayRocks]

Actually, I do watch the news and it is 4 states (Texas is the 4th) that have a "minority majority".

As to no "Caucasian scholarships", what about all of the ones that are for Irish-Americans or German-Americans or (or the ones that go to members of groups that have historically restricted minority membership), so yes, there are lots of "Caucasian scholarships" out there.

I personally am asking for nothing other than some understanding to what others might be feeling (and I am making an assumption about these feelings since I am white), but apparently we are going to settle for yelling. Fine, go for it, but I'm out of here.

I am sure there are plenty of Black german and black Irish people that are available for the scholarship, so that was a poor example. And i was mistaken on the state number, but it is happening and growing. Also I dont think anyone is yelling just stating an opinion.

 

[VSL]

I was just about to write a huge post, but was getting pretty wound-up, so I deleted it.

I'm caucasian BTW (although potentially mixed-race, as my biological father wanted nothing to do with me, and I am MUCH darker than my mother's side of the family).

As another poster said, the Princesses come from European fairy tales and folklore, so yes, they are white.
And there is plenty of ethnic diversity in WDW - Africa/Asia in AK, the entire AKL is themed to Africa(!), the WS in Epcot, not to mention all the Disney films ('Lion King' is set in Africa, for example - yes, there may not be a human princess in it, but if there aren't any popular African-princess stories then they're not going to make a film about them).

I'm Welsh (and therefore Celtic) and Disney haven't touched Celtic history at all (and if they did they would be probably centre it around Scotland or Ireland anyway, as no one seems to know that Wales is a country in itself (despite numerous past US Presidents being of Welsh descent, and people like Anthony Hopkins, Catherine Zeta-Jones, Tom Jones, Richard Burton, etc. all being Welsh ). Even the 'Magic of Wales' shop got filled with Scottish goods at one point (don't know if this is still the case though).
*At this point I would like to add that I love ALL my fellow Brits, whether Welsh, Scottish, Irish or English!*

The point is, they aren't going to touch Celtic history because it's simply not popular (or well-known) enough to make a profit, and this will also apply to other cultures.

(OK, I did end up writing a huge post afterall!)

 

[paladin]

Writing all in caps is considered yelling.

Black german and black Irish people

huh?

 

[paladin]

Oops, hit it twice

 

[paladin]

Sorry, didn't mean to post twice

 

[CindyCan]

We should not discriminate due to color. However, we shouldn't live colorblind either. A white child shouldn't look at a black child and see another white child. They should see someone who might have a different point of view and that their point of view is just as valid. It's not scarry for children to learn about other cultures, it's exciting and adventurous.

Shouldn't a child be taught that when they see another child: ANY other child, that "They should see someone who might have a different point of view and that their point of view is just as valid.". What does colour or race have to do with this? And, shouldn't the black child also be taught that maybe the white child has a valid point of view? I agree with the sentiment: I just think it should apply to ALL.

And, for me, that's why colour doesn't matter. It all comes down to respecting people in general.

Otherwise, it's WDW. It is what Disney makes it, and it's awesome. We love ALL the characters, not just the ones we look like (and there's not that many of those...I don't know about you, but I really don't think my family looks like a mouse!).

 

[WedwayRocks]

Writing all in caps is considered yelling.



huh?

There is a country called germeny and Ireland, and in those countries there lives human beings, and just like the US, they are all different colors of skin, and that means that there are people that live here with German and Irish descent that are black. Simple enough and I capitalize to emphasize an important point, not to "cyber yell".

 

[emnrich]

The original post seems concerned with "beautiful" black princesses.

Why not ugly? Why don't they have ugly princesses? There are thousands of ugly people out there doing good things in the world (I am one of them). Why aren't fat princesses allowed to do these thing? How about bald princesses? Princesses with big noses? Princesses that walk funny thanks to sports injuries? I have chosen all these because I am an ugly, fat, big-nosed bald guy who limps thanks to surgeries on both knees.

I am sick of PC. *edited because Lord knows we can't share any of our opinions that might offend someone*