Why are OKW points (for GV) so much less than BWV??

[DeeP]

When trying to answer why the pts are higher at BWV etc than OKW you can ask yourself the question: Why are the cash prices for a studio, 1 BR, 2 BR higher at BWV, BCV, WLV than OKW???????? Simple it is due to the location and the amenities offered. Bottom line, BWV, BCV & VWL ARE located in preferred locations and do offer top of the line deluxe resort amenities, thus the difference in price whether it be higher cash price or higher point price.
As was pointed out before, different people like different things and some greatly prefer one DVC over another, but personal preference has nothing to do with whether a resort is located on prime WDW property and whether or not they offer full deluxe resort amenities. BWV, BCV, VWL are located in prime locations and offer full deluxe amenities, so the price is higher. Just like you pay more to stay at a deluxe resort than a moderate resort due to the location and the amenities offered.
BWV, BCV, VWL = Deluxe
OKW = Moderate
I certainly can't go with the price at time of construction theory because the Poly was built MANY years before OKW and also has seperate buildings yet the cash cost of a room at the Poly is much higher than a studio (comparable room) at OKW. Why? Location and amenities. I also can't go with the supply and demand theory because again the Poly, GF, etc has many more rooms than OKW has studios and yet their rooms are priced much higher than an OKW stuido. Why? Preferred location and amenities.
There are the die heart OKW fans that simply love this resort and that is great, but often times these fans put blinders on to the reality that OKW does lack major things the other DVC resorts have which makes them worth more money/points. OKW does have the largest rooms and you can park in the parking lot located in front of each building and it is quiet but it is also not located in a prime location nor does it offer full deluxe resort amenities, a close location to parks, restaurants etc, this is the simple and plain truth. I always am amused at how the other DVC resorts shortcomings (smaller rooms, higher points, higher dues) are constantly brought to light on this board and yet OKW shortcomings are conviently glossed over, forgotten about or discredited as not mattering. It is too funny!!

 

[ncligs]

Originally posted by DeeP
There are the die heart OKW fans that simply love this resort and that is great, but often times these fans put blinders on

Deep,
By chance,do you happen to be a die heart BWV fan....

Do I

this moving to the debate boards.......

 

[DebbieB]

Originally posted by JohnnyII
What do you think makes one person more "expert" from another. Unless DVC has publicly stated their reasons for increasing the point charts for newer resorts, anything anyone says is just speculation. And even if DVC did state their reason, I'm sure we all know that they would publicly sanitize what they release.

I attended the BWV annual meeting in December 2000. This question came up and they said it was due to increased cost of construction. VWL had just gone on sale and I think people expected the points per night to be a little less than BWV since there were no rooms within walking distance to a park.

 

[Sharper]

Originally posted by DeeP

There are the die heart OKW fans that simply love this resort and that is great, but often times these fans put blinders on to the reality that OKW does lack major things the other DVC resorts have which makes them worth more money/points. OKW does have the largest rooms and you can park in the parking lot located in front of each building and it is quiet but it is also not located in a prime location nor does it offer full deluxe resort amenities, a close location to parks, restaurants etc, this is the simple and plain truth. I always am amused at how the other DVC resorts shortcomings (smaller rooms, higher points, higher dues) are constantly brought to light on this board and yet OKW shortcomings are conviently glossed over, forgotten about or discredited as not mattering. It is too funny!!

Talk about amusing.......how people can have such strong OPINIONS

 

[DeeP]

By chance,do you happen to be a die heart BWV fan....

Nick,
I do like BWV very much but I am also aware of it's shortcomings such as the smaller rooms, etc. and readily admit this. I just find it soooooooo funny that many times some folks attempt to portray OKW as the only DVC resort without any shortcomings and this just is not so. What is true is true about all the DVC resorts whether it be they have smaller rooms or are located in a location that is far from what would be considered prime WDW real estate. The OP asked why OKW has lower points than the other DVC resorts and I was addressing this question.
I am really glad I stumbled upon this thread because I had a very busy and grueling day at work today and reading some of the replies to this thread brought me my first laughter of the day!
BTW, I always enjoy your smilies, they are great!

Talk about amusing.......how people can have such strong OPINIONS

Sharper,
What did I say that was an opinion and not a fact?????? OKW is not located in a prime location like the other DVC resorts are, nor do they offer their guests full deluxe resort amenities, a close location to parks, restaurants, etc. Where in this statement do you see an opinion vs a fact???????

 

[ncligs]

Deep,
I agree with you.There are pros and cons of all the DVC resorts.I would stay at any of them.....and I plan to during the next 39 years.

P.S. It is a loooooooooooooonnnnnnnngggggggggg walk down to the elavators and parking lot though at the BWV.

 

[DeeP]

Nick,
I agree with you, it is a long walk to some of the rooms at BWV from the elevators and parking lot, it is one of BWV shortcomings just as the long hike up flights of stairs to an OKW room without the benefit of an elevator is an OKW shortcoming. I agree all the DVC resorts have their pros and cons. None of the DVC resorts are perfect, but heck they are all pretty darn nice and I am happy that I am able to be a DVC member!!

 

[ncligs]

Originally posted by DeeP
I agree with you, it is a long walk to some of the rooms at BWV from the elevators and parking lot, it is one of BWV shortcomings just as the long hike up flights of stairs to an OKW room without the benefit of an elevator is an OKW shortcoming.:

Deep............building 63 at OKW has an elevator.

 

[Sharper]

Originally posted by DeeP

Sharper,
What did I say that was an opinion and not a fact?????? OKW is not located in a prime location like the other DVC resorts are, nor do they offer their guests full deluxe resort amenities, a close location to parks, restaurants, etc. Where in this statement do you see an opinion vs a fact???????

Let's see, perhaps it was when you said that OKW was a moderate? Or maybe how you laugh/smile, whatever at those who are silly enough to think OKW compares to the other DVC properties, and who had any idea of basic inferiority of why OKW is less expensive? Or perhaps even the above list of "facts" which are simply your opinion? I, along with many, many others feel that OKW's location and setup is one of its advantages, and that it has more than sufficient amenities. You seem unable to separate your opinion from true facts, or to respect other's opinions.

 

[DeeP]

Let's see, perhaps it was when you said that OKW was a moderate

I was making a comparsion of how Disney prices their resorts based on location and amenities. And it is ironic but OKW does in "fact" offer less amenities to their guests than the moderate resorts do, like no pool slide, no life guards at the main pool, 99% of the buildings do not have elevators and a more limited menu for food room delivery. Of course none of them offer room service which is basically a given at deluxe resorts.

Or maybe how you laugh/smile, whatever at those who are silly enough to think OKW compares to the other DVC properties, and who had any idea

I laugh and am amused at how all the other DVC shortcomings are so readily pointed out and yet OKW shortcomings are glossed over.

? Or perhaps even the above list of "facts" which are simply your opinion? I, along with many

The facts that I stated were: OKW is not located in prime WDW real estate, OKW does not offer full deluxe resort amenities, OKW is not located within walking distance to any parks or restaurants. These ARE facts, they are NOT my opinion. I do not know what WDW you go to but if OKW is located within walking distance to parks, offers full deluxe resort amenities, etc., etc., you must have been in a different WDW than the one located in FL. !!!!!!
Disney has their price structures for their resorts for a very good reason, they get top $ for the resorts that are in prime locations and offer the most amenities. I did not make up the price structures for the WDW resorts Disney did and for very good reasons--they know and have proven over the years they can get a higher price for a resort that is located in a prime location and offers top amenities. Hence the GF is priced the way it is vs the price of a room at an All Star resort!
What part, of any of these facts are are my opinion??

 

[Dean]

Well, this is just my opinion as I'm not an expert in the reason DVC does anything, esp. points costs.

First, I think BWV is higher than OKW in general due to location, increased construction costs and just because they can. I feel it's a combination of the 3. I'm certain that the premium for BWV GV (150% of a 2 BR plus a studio) compared to the OKW Premium (120%) is due mostly to the popularity of the GV at OKW, the fact there are only 7 and again because they can.

There's no question that the other DVC resorts are in more prime areas with more action. Some will like one better than another. I prefer OKW personally for my own reasons which I'll save for another time. Looking at this from a logical prespective and from the ranking and charges that Disney itself puts on the rooms, I'd have to label the resorst as this ranked on the basis of the luxury or overall desirability:

• GF
• BW, YC, BC
• Contemporary Tower rooms only and Poly, ADDED AKL
• Cont Garden Wings and WL
• OKW
• All the moderates, ADDED FW
• All Value

Before anyone gets upset that their favorite got lower than they would have given it, I used logic, the rack rates, the old Disney Collection points schedules and Disney's own portrayal of the resorts. It's actually not at all my preferences. Were I to just rank the DVC resorts on a 100 point scale, here's how I'd do it. I'm sure you each would have your own. Again this is not my preferences only my estimation of what the masses overall would think.

• BWV - 95
• BCV - 94 (slightly higher for being newer but slightly lower for views overall).
• WLV - 91 (views, dark feeling being the main negatives).
• OKW - 88 (moderate location, older are negatives. larger, relaxed feel and parking are positives though the need for a car is a negative for some.)
• VB - 87 (not at WDW is a neg but a great resort otherwise).
• HH - 85 (No restaurant on site, overall it just doesn't grab me, sorry)

I'd guess SS would be around 89 or 90 assuming I like the looks of the resort itself and the units, that the units are the smaller size and that the points are closer to the other resorts than OKW points. To me the location is somewhat of a negative even compared to OKW but it will be a personal feel for each person. The newness will put it ahead of OKW for a while even if the units are smaller but once it's 10 y/o or so, OKW will be the preferred resort by far, maybe sooner depending on the points differential.

All are welcome to disagree but the fact YOU like a specific resort better wouldn't fit in with my thoughts here.

 

[Sharper]

Dean, there is a lot of logic to your post. I think that there is some significant variation even amongst the rooms in each individual resort and depending on the season as to what is most "valuable" to guests at a particular time. There are times when your room location may make a significant difference in the time it takes you to reach a park (a more distant room at OKW or one of those rooms at the end of a hall at the end of a hall at the end of a hall at BW) or if you have small children and will spend 95% of your time at MK and any but the MK resorts are inconvenient.

Being able to walk to a park (particularly if the time to walk from your room to the park is as long or longer than dedicated bus service!) or order room service are not what I personally would rank as huge issues. Overall time to get to all parks and actual accommodations are much more important to me. Everyone's opinions are what make the world go round and why Disney doesn't build identical resort hotels.

 

[Dean]

Originally posted by Sharper
Dean, there is a lot of logic to your post. I think that there is some significant variation even amongst the rooms in each individual resort and depending on the season as to what is most "valuable" to guests at a particular time. There are times when your room location may make a significant difference in the time it takes you to reach a park (a more distant room at OKW or one of those rooms at the end of a hall at the end of a hall at the end of a hall at BW) or if you have small children and will spend 95% of your time at MK and any but the MK resorts are inconvenient.

Being able to walk to a park (particularly if the time to walk from your room to the park is as long or longer than dedicated bus service!) or order room service are not what I personally would rank as huge issues. Overall time to get to all parks and actual accommodations are much more important to me. Everyone's opinions are what make the world go round and why Disney doesn't build identical resort hotels.

Agreed. Food and wine festival, marathon, golf tourney, etc could make minor variations to the overall norm.

 

[PamOKW]

I certainly can't go with the price at time of construction theory because the Poly was built MANY years before OKW and also has seperate buildings yet the cash cost of a room at the Poly is much higher than a studio (comparable room) at OKW.

The cost of a room at the Poly is also more than a studio at BWV. I guess that makes the Poly more desireable? The GF also has seperate buildings but neither the Poly nor the GF are laid out on a golf course and neither is built as a luxury condo.

Prior to Disney creating the "Home Away From Home" category, OKW was listed as a Deluxe Resort. It is now and always will be a Deluxe Resort. It is, however, different than every other current deluxe resort at WDW because it is not built on a hotel model but on a luxury condo model. It is difficult to compare the attributes on an apples to apples basis.

This arguement gets tired. I thought maybe it had been laid to rest in 2002 but I see it's revived for 2003. I like the idea that all the resorts have something special to offer and sometimes the importance can change with our own desires. A quick visit with parks the primary goal could mean a BCV studio was the ideal choice. A three week winter getaway that will include visiting friends in Florida would make the two-bedroom at OKW the first choice. Showing a 4 year old the MK would mean a one-bedroom at VWL would be the best. Lucky thing about belonging to DVC is that we aren't permanently tied down to any of the choices unless that is what we want.

 

[Richyams]

Dean got it. Construction costs have increased pretty dramatically. Material and especially labor. Land has also become more valuable. The location of BWV nad BCV do command more....VWL shocked me to have the same point scedule. AND most importantly, because they can.

BWV GVs all have boardwalk views....that in itself is part of the reason for the premium(150%, that Dean mentioned) over the 2bdr+studio. I think that is a big reason.

Personally, even if the points were the same, I would prefer the larger OKW unit, for its size and lay out, parking out front and lower dues. The BW view is about the only thing, it is a big thing, but I think its the only thing BWV has over OKW.

I think the BWV GV point scedule is gouging. They know that some people just don't care about cost and they will stay full.

Personally, I find jumping in my car out front, planning where the best place to park for that day, stopping on the way home for ciggerettes, snacks, dinner, or whatever I may fancy that day, parking in front of my unit and getting to my room in less than a minute is WAY more convinient that BWV busses or eve the ten minute walk to the international gateway.

Besides, since OKW rooms are 25% larger than BWV rooms, and points are 25% lower, and dues are 20% lower, the dues per sq ft per night at BWV or 70% highr than OKW.

 

[DVCPAT]

I think OKW resort design is much easier to maintain at a lower cost per unit. Since it's such an efficient resort, all the daily expenses are lower.

BWV is an attraction in itself with alot of visitors not staying at the resort which adds to the normal wear & tear. The inside lobby area and corridors are temperature controlled and require perodic maintenance (not to mention the pool and community hall area).

Since each point has a maintenance fee applied, Anyone staying at the resorts on points or cash pays the bills.

 

[Regina]

Okay, I tried really, really hard to stay out of this, but when I saw OKW=Moderate, I couldn't help myself.

Here are the 2002 rack rates, Value Season, for comparison:

$249 OKW Studio
$194 WL Standard View
$214 WL Woods View
$245 WL Courtyard View
$204 AKL Standard View
$255 AKL Water/Pool View
$270 SKL Savannah View
$234 Contemporary Garden Standard
$265 Contemporary Garden View
$289 Beach Club Standard View
$289 Boardwalk Inn Standard View
$299 Poly Garden View

And now...........

$133 Caribbean Beach, Coronado, POR, POFQ standard view
$148 for the water view

'Nuff said.

 

[Peterd]

We all know that OKW was the first resort, with it came the original point per night charges. A very nice resort, and with the point schedule very affordable. Disney said "hey we got something going here, let's expand." Okw was an experiment that worked. They found out people will pay, so let's see how much. To do this, they had to offer more, location (walk or boat to a park) , nicer pools, valet, room service,restaurants (12 or more in the BW/BC/YB area alone, without getting in your car), and more of a nightlife, not just a lounge you can fit 14 people in.
BW came around with the original one price per room type, then later added the stand/pref type prices. To increase the prices and point per room prices, They had to consider the pluses and minuses of a new resort.

A few good things and bad things,

1. A minus: the DVCer might have a little walk to your room if not by the elevator, some say long walk, but some could use a little excercise, and if you think it's that long, you know you need to get out and excercise more.

2. A plus: you don't have to walk to your car to drive to any of the above amenities in your resort.

3. Minus: You lose all of the fun of trying to dodge buses if you decide to walk instead of drive to the pool or THE only restaurant on site.

4. Plus, don't have to drive to your' quiet pool of choice.

5. Minus: you have to grab a towel at the pool and get on the elevator and walk to your room.

6. Plus: you can grab a towel, walk to your car, drive to your room, then walk up the stairs to your room.

7.Minus: have to worry about the pesky lifeguards watching out for you at the pools, could save you a couple of pennies a point. Note: if you think you don't need a lifeguard, see 1. above, if the long walk bothers you that much, you may need this more than you think.

8. plus...nice health club.

9. minus. what no nautilus?



I would think if the okw came second or third, the point prices for the okw rooms would be more in line with the other resorts today. I can't see a GV at okw as it is now going for 38 points per night in Nov, still get as high as a GV for the BW at 79 per per night, but maybe if it came afterwards, it may have been a bit higher than what some of the two bedrooms cost at the other resorts. I also think that to do this, a new Okw would have to offer more. When they recently added more rooms from the old hospitality house, I think they could have improved the resort by adding more amenities by making some sort of nightspot/ better health club or another food option, but no, more rooms.

It makes you think, would DVC make the same Okw now after the other resorts were already made? They mention Saratoga, but it doesn't sound anything like Okw.
I'm a BW/BC/Okw owner, mostly BW owner, I was just a bit curious, would an Okw owner pay $80 or so a point now for the Okw, if the point schedules were the same as the other resorts (12 for a studio, 24 one BR, 32 2br, etc... in Nov? I know people love their resort, but you know if they made it after the other resorts, the prices and point schedules would be the same, would it still be AS attractive?

 

[Richyams]

I have said many times, and even once in this thread that even if the points and dues were the same as BWV, I would prefer OKW.

If I was in the market to buy and didn't already own today, I would certainy buy at OKW. The ease of having the car a few steps away, the comfort and privacy, the huge balconies, make OKW worth much more than BCV or BWV to me. VWL don't really appeal to me at all.

 

[PamOKW]

I don't think Saratoga can be compared to any of the other resorts or used as an example to say it's "correcting" OKW. The spa, theater and other amenities that were built for use by the Disney Institute will remain as features of Saratoga. If it were being built from scratch, would they build a theater? I lean towards a no on that one.

The BW resort itself was a "correction" of something Disney originally planned. When they first spoke of Boardwalk it was not a resort at all but was going to be an entertainment area that would even have carnival rides. Somewhere along the line they decided to build a resort/entertainment area instead. Maybe when they saw the success of OKW they sought out a way to build a new DVC?