Why all the fuss about DDP?

[havoc315]

I won this one. And where did i use foul language?

I am ripping havoc clam because for everything anyone has stated, he has stated he is a genius at it. First he was an economist, then a legal expert, then this, then that....Its one thing to complain, but another to patently slander something for what it is not. I have the same problem with people who defend the DP as great for everyone, however, i rarely see them, but you can't go a day without seeing someone post that it stinks.

I do not appreciate your repeated slander. I have an undergraduate degree in economics, I have a Juris Doctor, and am an practicing attorney. I've never been shy about my background. I've never stated to be a genius at anything. I have claimed to have certain perspective, which I've shared. And for some reason, that has brought personal attacks from you.

 

[kdawg8762]

Case in point clam:

I own a restaurant, i said we couldn't know what the DP would be like until the 2012 prices were out because, food is going up.....he said nope, you're wrong.

I have a marketing and economics degrees, he's an economist

A posters husband is an class action litigator and said this wasn't even close to be lawsuit worthy....guess what...havoc is a legal expert better than this persons husband.

In the original post i made a statement and asked a question, he hijacked the thread and did exactly what i was talking about without answering the question. Then he assaulted anyone with how expert he was at everything, from what i've done for most of my life, to someone's husband who as a litigator, he decided to be smarter than them all.

FYI, to Addie, like i said, yes i won this one, but i go pretty often, this is the longest stretch having not gone, so its not as if I am foreign to the DP and such. Heck, if it was just this one trip, i wouldn't be on here researching, but our kids will soon be old enough to go and i want to know what i can know for taking them. I, too, like the people who express a dislike, but the anti-dp (most of the time without a whole lot of backing besides "it didn't work for me so you shouldn't do it) is only rivaled in vitriol by the "should i take my kids out of school for a few days" threads.

 

[havoc315]

Case in point clam:

I own a restaurant, i said we couldn't know what the DP would be like until the 2012 prices were out because, food is going up.....he said nope, you're wrong.

I have a marketing and economics degrees, he's an economist

A posters husband is an class action litigator and said this wasn't even close to be lawsuit worthy....guess what...havoc is a legal expert better than this persons husband.

In the original post i made a statement and asked a question, he hijacked the thread and did exactly what i was talking about without answering the question. Then he assaulted anyone with how expert he was at everything, from what i've done for most of my life, to someone's husband who as a litigator, he decided to be smarter than them all.

FYI, to Addie, like i said, yes i won this one, but i go pretty often, this is the longest stretch having not gone, so its not as if I am foreign to the DP and such. Heck, if it was just this one trip, i wouldn't be on here researching, but our kids will soon be old enough to go and i want to know what i can know for taking them. I, too, like the people who express a dislike, but the anti-dp (most of the time without a whole lot of backing besides "it didn't work for me so you shouldn't do it) is only rivaled in vitriol by the "should i take my kids out of school for a few days" threads.

Wow. Wow. How many lies can you squeeze into 1 post?

Let's see..... I never said prices wouldn't go up in 2012. I simply said that there was no reason to believe that the price increases would be dramatically different than in the past. And you provided absolutely no evidence to support your argument that for some reason, 2012 prices increases would be so much bigger than the price increases going on right now.
I never said my legal opinion was any better than any other lawyer. Having my own experience litigating class action lawsuits (which is limited to the beginning of my career, I don't actively practice class action at this time), and based on my legal training and knowledge, as well as my review of the case law, Disney's practices could be opening itself up to a class action lawsuit. I never said it was the strongest case in the world. I simply said that a meritorious argument could be made. But you don't seem to accept that people can have differing opinions. Especially, during the time period where they were actively advertising the wrong price. (Somehow, I guess you think it should be legal for a restaurant to put a $10 price on the menu, and then charge you $15 when the bill arrives)

Finally, I assaulted people? I hijacked a thread? You asked why people are critical of the DDP, and I gave an answer! That's hijacking???
And I've assaulted people????

Umm, does anyone here feel I've assaulted them?

 

[nurtz]

I am so confused about where all these threads are that somehow "rip" the dining plans. I must be missing something here. I always feel like I am in the minority because I don't use the plans. They aren't for everyone and just because a person states why they don't use them, doesn't mean they are "ripping" them. I don't like the way they are structured...others do. They wouldn't save me a bit of money (unless free dining was a better discount then a room discount...which I prefer to have). I am not ripping the plans...just saying why they don't work for me. These boards are here to help people decide. If all they see is "I wouldn't go to WDW without a dining plan" and "the dining plan saved me hundreds of dollars", how is that helpful to everyone? Can't we all agree that the plans aren't a perfect fit for everyone. Use them if you feel they are worth it to you, don't if not. But don't pretend your reasoning is right for everyone.

 

[kdawg8762]

No, i didn't ask why people were critical of DP. I understand why people are, heck there are things i really don't like about it. What i asked is why people attack as hardcore as people like you do? Answer that question or don't, it doesn't matter.....


I don't like you, you don't like me, i don't respect you, you don't respect me, so call it a truce, let the thread go where threads go, and be done with it.

 

[clanmcculloch]

Case in point clam:

I own a restaurant, i said we couldn't know what the DP would be like until the 2012 prices were out because, food is going up.....he said nope, you're wrong.

I have a marketing and economics degrees, he's an economist

A posters husband is an class action litigator and said this wasn't even close to be lawsuit worthy....guess what...havoc is a legal expert better than this persons husband.

In the original post i made a statement and asked a question, he hijacked the thread and did exactly what i was talking about without answering the question. Then he assaulted anyone with how expert he was at everything, from what i've done for most of my life, to someone's husband who as a litigator, he decided to be smarter than them all.

FYI, to Addie, like i said, yes i won this one, but i go pretty often, this is the longest stretch having not gone, so its not as if I am foreign to the DP and such. Heck, if it was just this one trip, i wouldn't be on here researching, but our kids will soon be old enough to go and i want to know what i can know for taking them. I, too, like the people who express a dislike, but the anti-dp (most of the time without a whole lot of backing besides "it didn't work for me so you shouldn't do it) is only rivaled in vitriol by the "should i take my kids out of school for a few days" threads.

Havoc DID agree that we won't know the comparisson numbers until restaurant prices for 2012 were released. Your choosing to not recall that. He did state that it's underhanded and deceptive to refuse to provide the cost of the 2012 dining plans. Disney will not give that information. You have to come to sites like this to find out the numbers. How is that ok? How is he wrong that this is underhanded?

He actually didn't say he's an economist. He has an undergaduate in economics and that he's now a practicing lawyer.

He also didn't say he's a legal expert. He said he's a practicing attorney who has been involved in class action lawsuits who has shared his legal opinion. Why do you think that the word of a poster's husband who likely has not been personally taking the time to read through these threads or even think about the ins and outs of the dining plans would know more than havoc about whether or not there's a potential lawsuit here? I don't have the expertese to know one way or the other and I don't play a lawyer on tv so I'm not weighing in. I'm just saying that 2 people have different views and you're taking the word of a person who hasn't even been part of this conversation over one who has. My DH only knows the bits and pieces of information about some of these conversations that I tell him. He doesn't know the details. Why are you assuming that this other poster's husband knows all the details? Why are you assuming that one lawyer is right over the other lawyer? You don't know either of them or their backgrounds or their experiences. You seem to be choosing to believe the one that agrees with you. One lawyer who you don't know says there's no merrit and one lawyer who you don't know says there is.

Havoc answered your original question with multiple points. You've chosen to attack one of his points in a way that is doing exactly what you said you don't like others doing plus you've resorted to personal attacks.

Where has havoc assaulted or attacked anybody? Where has he stated he's an expert? I really did try to find that. I couldn't. All I saw was him sharing HIS opion but never any kind of personal attacks and really it's been pretty unemotional on his side.

Havoc, if you're actually a she, I appologize for repeatedly calling you a he. When I don't know, it's one less character to type each time to say he.

 

[havoc315]

LOL, thank you for the spirited defense Clan. And yes, "he" is accurate.

 

[kdawg8762]

Clam, i'm not talking about the 2012 numbers, he said i was wrong about food prices going up...asking any rep for food, booze, etc...all our reps say it is going to rise, and probably significantly....all the forecasts point that way as well.

Clam, he didn't say he was an attorney, in this thread at least, until someone spoke about an attorney's opinion.

Lastly, my question was not answered, it was simply why do i see people ripping the DP to threads like vicious pitbulls, basically, why all the venom towards it....simply don't use it if you don't like it. Got a lot of opinions on why the dp was bad, but none on why some hate it so much, which was the original point and the original question.

 

[havoc315]

Clam, i'm not talking about the 2012 numbers, he said i was wrong about food prices going up...

I said that? Please show me where I ever said that food prices were not rising. Please. If you can't show me where I said that, then I would greatly appreciate an apology for your libel.

 

[nurtz]

Clam, i'm not talking about the 2012 numbers, he said i was wrong about food prices going up...asking any rep for food, booze, etc...all our reps say it is going to rise, and probably significantly....all the forecasts point that way as well.

Clam, he didn't say he was an attorney, in this thread at least, until someone spoke about an attorney's opinion.

Lastly, my question was not answered, it was simply why do i see people ripping the DP to threads like vicious pitbulls, basically, why all the venom towards it....simply don't use it if you don't like it. Got a lot of opinions on why the dp was bad, but none on why some hate it so much, which was the original point and the original question.

I really haven't noticed all these vicious threads ripping the dining plans. I am being serious here. I really haven't noticed this at all.

 

[addiedisney]

kdwag,

Sorry I might have missed it, but do you work for Disney or work as an affiliate for them? You don't have to answer, just curious.

 

[kdawg8762]

Havoc, you stated that there was nothing to indicate that food would rise above normal inflation rates, i said there was......you just want to play word games now instead of using common sense, i get that, i have an economics degree just as you do.

That said, do what you will, you didn't answer my question, so since you don't care for me, i don't care for you, i'm done with this thread.

 

[havoc315]

Havoc, you stated that there was nothing to indicate that food would rise above normal inflation rates, i said there was......

I never said that either. I said there was no reason to think that Disney was going to suddenly raise prices, higher than current food inflation, or dramatically higher than in the past. I asked you why you felt, Disney was going to suddenly raise prices dramatically higher than past increases. (Food inflation is currently running about 1% higher than overall inflation). Instead of answering my question, you resorted to personal attacks. Overall inflation is in the 2-3% range.. Food inflation is in the 3-4% range. In the past, Disney has raised prices less than 5% per year, which I expect to continue. You have provided no explanation for your belief that starting in 2012 (as opposed to starting right now), suddenly there will be increases dramatically higher than 5%.



You keep lying about my past statements. Why do you feel the need to libel me?

 

[t_daniels]

Me either.

I really haven't noticed all these vicious threads ripping the dining plans. I am being serious here. I really haven't noticed this at all.

It seems like a no brainer. Why get upset/angry at someone on a thread? Just stop using DDP if its that bad?