Why all the fuss about DDP?

[kdawg8762]

What is fraudulent/sleazy, is that Disney does NOT lay it out clearly at all.
For 2012, they do not publish the price. They do not list it on their website. If you ask a cast member on the phone, they will claim there is no direct price because it is part of the "package."
You need to pull out a calculator or read this board, to know the actual price.

If you rely on what Disney is "laying out" -- then all you know is that they recommend you add a plan with up to 20% savings.
They don't "lay out" that those savings are very difficult to achieve. They don't lay out that if you want less than 2-3 desserts per day, it will save you more to skip the plan.
Instead, they just say they can add this recommended feature to your package and save up to 20%. Sounds goods. But it's a very misleading sales pitch.

God forbid...you had to do simple math online? Say it ain't so. Its a business tactic, its a profit center and anyone in business knows that and knows what to look for. We haven't been to WDW a lot like some have, but we both laugh at people who talk about spending all their time getting to reservations. Does anyone know how to plan anymore?
1) Figure out which parks you want to go to and when
2) Base your eating around that
3) if there is a place you want to ensure you get to eat, accept the fact that it'll be like getting to any other reservation at home and will dictate where you are

OOP or DDP, those 3 are easy to do. Also, if you have to budget cheaply to the point of pinching pennies...you shouldn't be going on a vacation, you should be putting that money to better uses.

 

[angelmav]

God forbid...you had to do simple math online? Say it ain't so. Its a business tactic, its a profit center and anyone in business knows that and knows what to look for. We haven't been to WDW a lot like some have, but we both laugh at people who talk about spending all their time getting to reservations. Does anyone know how to plan anymore?
1) Figure out which parks you want to go to and when
2) Base your eating around that
3) if there is a place you want to ensure you get to eat, accept the fact that it'll be like getting to any other reservation at home and will dictate where you are

OOP or DDP, those 3 are easy to do. Also, if you have to budget cheaply to the point of pinching pennies...you shouldn't be going on a vacation, you should be putting that money to better uses.

Simple math? You mean breaking down individual components of a vacation to determing how much you spent on dining so you can do further research to come up with a plan to meet Disney's advertised savings percentage when in years past they published the rate? Thats shady and you know it.

Does anyone know how to plan? What do you think this site is for? You have to plan up to six months where you want to be, when you want to eat to have any hope of having that experience, then hoping it will all work out when you get there. Laugh about that if you like but it is the nature of the beast. The days when you could walk up and get seated where you want to have been over for quite awhile, and heaven forbid you buy said plan and expect that because you bought their dining plan you will be able to eat, well I have seen that play out numerous times and it wasnt a laughing matter. This isnt like getting at reservation at home, in fact they go out of their way to state the difference between a reservation and priority seating, but most lose this distinction.

Nice job in deciding who is entitled to take a vacation. Many people save up to go on vacation and simply want the best deal they can get for the money. Guess they should just stay home.

 

[MsPoppinsTX]

I'm with you angelmav. I don't even see how doing the 3 steps listed by kdawg then get you to a cost analysis of whether the DDP would save you any money. I was rather confused by their reasoning and couldn't make the connection between the premis of the thread and planning to be at your reservation in time.

Disney itself takes so much planning when trying to figure out which parks to be at which day, whether to take advantage of EMH or not, what restaurants to do, where to stay, etc. Adding on the task of then creating an excel spreadsheet to analyze the cost of food and whether you would be better off on the DDP or not (some would be and some would not) is significant work and a lot more planning than the average person does. Personally, I will take the extra time to do the spreadsheet and figure out the costs for my family based on what we want to do. But other people won't, and that is fine and in some cases the DDP will save those people money and for some people it won't.

 

[kdawg8762]

If you squabble over a few bucks, then yes, you should stay home as you aren't prepared if a true emergency, even short term, hits.

Second, i just found out what the DxDP would cost me for 7 night in 2012, took me 30 seconds on wdw.com. Simple math.

Third, have you never eaten at a place where you had to reserve dinner 6 months in advance? There are a lot of those places, and I'm not talking fancy or pricey, just busy.

Fourth, I am not talking about WDW planning, it seems some would use this place and throw out common sense first. Common sense tells you to rank what is most important to you, for most people, one could assume that would be hitting up the parks, so common sense says base dining around that.

 

[havoc315]

God forbid...you had to do simple math online? Say it ain't so. Its a business tactic, its a profit center and anyone in business knows that and knows what to look for. We haven't been to WDW a lot like some have, but we both laugh at people who talk about spending all their time getting to reservations. Does anyone know how to plan anymore?
1) Figure out which parks you want to go to and when
2) Base your eating around that
3) if there is a place you want to ensure you get to eat, accept the fact that it'll be like getting to any other reservation at home and will dictate where you are

OOP or DDP, those 3 are easy to do. Also, if you have to budget cheaply to the point of pinching pennies...you shouldn't be going on a vacation, you should be putting that money to better uses.

First off, plenty of people are pinching pennies, and still want to take a vacation. But putting that out of the equation... It's not about pinching pennies, it's about whether you want to save money, or waste money.
Would you be willing to hand me $5 for absolutely no reason? It's just $5... why are you being a penny pincher, and refusing to give me $5?

If people are going to spend money, they want value in return.

The math is hardly simple when it comes down to the DDP.
Take a family of 4, staying 7 days/nights. (It can be much harder math if it's 6nights/7days, etc).
To figure out whether you will save money on the DDP -- You need to price out 28 snacks, 28 QS entrees, 28 QS beverages, 28 QS desserts, 28 TS entrees, 28 TS desserts, and 28 TS beverages. (Find up to date menus for up to 14 different restaurants, determine what each person is your party is likely to order each day). Determine whether holiday pricing effects any of the meals. Determine the effect of the plan on additional OOP eating (would you have OOP costs on the plan, that you wouldn't have off the plan). Then compute the amount you may or may not use the refillable mug, and assign a fair value based on use. Determine tipping both on and off the plan for comparison purposes. Add in sales tax.

To do the math right, I'd say it's probably a 6-8 hour project.

 

[angelmav]

If you squabble over a few bucks, then yes, you should stay home as you aren't prepared if a true emergency, even short term, hits.

Second, i just found out what the DxDP would cost me for 7 night in 2012, took me 30 seconds on wdw.com. Simple math.

Third, have you never eaten at a place where you had to reserve dinner 6 months in advance? There are a lot of those places, and I'm not talking fancy or pricey, just busy.

Fourth, I am not talking about WDW planning, it seems some would use this place and throw out common sense first. Common sense tells you to rank what is most important to you, for most people, one could assume that would be hitting up the parks, so common sense says base dining around that.

Squable over a few bucks? The DDP is nearly $60 pp over the age of 10 per day during so called 'holiday' periods. Another point of research (holiday periods). Its not about weather or not the information is out there to be found, presented this way the majority of the buying public wont even know it exists which is manipulative and further complicated if you arent aware how much planning is required to even use that plan.

Forget 1 reservation, you need reservations for length of stay 6 months in advance, as well as knowing which parks to go to on certain days, that is all information people pay $$ to find out then make reservations accordingly, or have you never heard of TGM?

Common sense would tell you that giant mice dont exist nor would you want to dine with one. There is alot more to do at WDW besides just the parks and the dining/entertainment is a major part of that for alot of people.

 

[dandave]

I have used the old DDE, the TIW, CS, DDP, and will be using the deluxe dining plan again next once. We started going as a family before my youngest (14) was born, so we have experienced all these plans as a family.
Things that once would have worked for us no longer do, because our family has evolved over time. My children have wanted "adult" meals, since they were small. I certainly can't see how any set dining plan could possibly work for all types and ages of families/people. That's why there are options. We always save money on whichever plan we choose. The fun in planning, for me, is figuring out which plan will save us the most money on our intended meals.
It doesn't bother me when Disney alters a particular plan. If it works for us, we'll still use it. If I it doesn't, then we can pay OOP or choose a different plan. Being able to purchase a potentially less expensive plan/way to dine on Disney property is not something I feel entitled to as a resort guest or park visitor. It certainly is nice when I can figure out a way to save money at the places I want to dine, however.

 

[lesabrowning]

I think people use the word fraudulent a bit too loosely. Just because Disney encourages people to book a dining plan and offers you a package price, that is not fraud. It is NOT hard to get the price of the dining plans. It can be done online, on the phone or from your travel agent. It is also not Disney's responsibility to explain to you if it will work for your family or not. You have some responsibility to do your research before you purchase something, just like in the rest of life.

 

[havoc315]

I think people use the word fraudulent a bit too loosely. Just because Disney encourages people to book a dining plan and offers you a package price, that is not fraud. It is NOT hard to get the price of the dining plans. It can be done online, on the phone or from your travel agent. It is also not Disney's responsibility to explain to you if it will work for your family or not. You have some responsibility to do your research before you purchase something, just like in the rest of life.

Whether it's "fraud" is a bit questionable, though I do believe a class action lawsuit against Disney may actually have merit.

Yes, you can get the price with research. But Disney won't tell you the price!

And yes, you have an obligation as the consumer -- buyer beware.

But the seller, has an obligation not to engage in deceptive business practices. Not to falsely advertise.

Last year, Disney claimed that the price of the dining plan was "Under $42 per person." I booked it, based on this impression. I later learned, from sources such as this board, that the price was really $47... and when I went back and put the numbers under the microscope, I saw this to be the case. Now this was flagrant fraud. You could easily support a class action lawsuit among the thousands of people who probably booked online, during the time period that the false price was listed. I was satisfied with Disney's efforts to correct my complaint.

Now, they have stopped listing the price entirely. Advertising an atypical result as being typical, is still considered false advertising.

Thus, advertising a 20-30% savings, when 10-15% is more typical... could easily be the basis of class action lawsuit. Or an investigation by the Attorney General.

When booking a reservation with Disney, here is what the website says:

"Magic Your Way Base Package

Would you like to save on dining?

You can upgrade your package to the Magic Your Way Package Plus Dining!"

Then you click a button, and it is added to your "package." In fact, if you weren't paying attention, you wouldn't have any clue how much was being added to the package. All you know is, sounds good....... Of course I want to save on dining!!
But is that deceptive? As shown on this board, massive numbers of people won't save anything on the DDP, but it will actually cost them more money.

At least this page, doesn't promise a specific percentage of savings.

Back on the first booking page, where it gives you a chance to click a box for the dining plan -- this is what it says:

"Save up to 20% on Disney dining when you add the Disney Dining Plan to your package! "
And then there is a box to check if you want it included. No pricing information (actually, no pricing information is available anywhere on the Disney website). Just the promise to save up to 20% -- which is very unrealistic for most diners.

Now, there is a ? which you can click for more information. What happens when you click the ?
"The Magic Your Way Package Plus Dining offers you an easy and affordable way to experience a wide variety of select restaurants - and you can save up to 30% per person on dining! This package includes your Disney Resort hotel accommodations, Theme Park ticket and Disney Dining Plan that offers one table-service meal, one quick-service meal and one snack per person, per night of your package stay at select restaurants. Bon appetit!"

Now this appears to be a complete and total lie. Even under the most generous circumstances, it is almost impossible to save 30% on the DDP. I think they may have meant to refer to the DxDP with the 30%... but it actually says "Disney Dining Plan" -- no mention of a reference to only the deluxe.

So in this case.... if you clicked to get to the fine print, you would get an even bigger lie!
It's debatable whether the 20% number is realistic, but certainly the 30% number they are listing is unquestionably fraudulent.

 

[dandave]

The literature says that you can save "up to 20%." *Up to 20%* does not mean the same as "20%." I have saved much more.

 

[havoc315]

The literature says that you can save "up to 20%." *Up to 20%* does not mean the same as "20%." I have saved much more.

In 1 spot, it actually says "up to 30%"-- but putting that aside...

It is illegal false advertising, to advertise atypical results (that's why so frequently in weight loss commercials, you see prominently "These results not typical")

With 2012 pricing, it is very difficult to save 20%, unless you are truly maximizing every possible credit.

 

[dandave]

Havoc, 2012 prices aren't out yet, so I have no opinion on that. In all the years that I've been doing the plans, our savings have reached the 30% mark. I did my research, and I chose the correct plan to accomplish that. as long as it can be done, I don't see it as false advertisement.

 

[havoc315]

Havoc, 2012 prices aren't out yet, so I have no opinion on that. In all the years that I've been doing the plans, our savings have reached the 30% mark. I did my research, and I chose the correct plan to accomplish that. as long as it can be done, I don't see it as false advertisement.

2012 prices have been out for a while. Disney refuses to publish the prices, but they have been "deduced."

On the DxDP 30% savings is possible. With the DDP, with the increased pricing, it is very very difficult to get to 20% using reasonable spending.

 

[dandave]

I meant menu meal prices aren't out yet for 2012, so I can't speculate on savings.

 

[havoc315]

I meant menu meal prices aren't out yet for 2012, so I can't speculate on savings.

True. But based on history, we can fairly speculate that prices will continue to rise at a clip of something less than 5%. Many prices are not changed at all, year to year.

 

[lesabrowning]

I am pretty sure we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one. We have saved 20 -30% on both the regular and Deluxe dining plans. Disney lists "up to" which does not mean all or most people will save a certain amount, it means you can save "up to" 20 or 30 percent or whatever. My husband is a class action specialist and suggests this is not class action material. With that said, not all legal minds agree on anything, so who knows? (anyone can contact a class action attorney and if the take the case become a class rep)

 

[dandave]

I'll agree to disagree. I've never had a problem saving in the 30% range over the course of a vacation with a dining plan.

 

[Brandis]

What I don't like about the dining plan is that with the rise of the Dining Plan menus started to become streamlined, less choice, less interesting, less exotic.

Very sad.

For example, the Whispering Canyon Cafe used to have a very funny dessert called Mudpudding or something like that, it was chocolate pudding with oreo crumbles on to and gummi worms. They probably had to create those from scratch, nowadays they just serve pre-fabricated standard desserts.

 

[havoc315]

I am pretty sure we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one. We have saved 20 -30% on both the regular and Deluxe dining plans. Disney lists "up to" which does not mean all or most people will save a certain amount, it means you can save "up to" 20 or 30 percent or whatever. My husband is a class action specialist and suggests this is not class action material. With that said, not all legal minds agree on anything, so who knows? (anyone can contact a class action attorney and if the take the case become a class rep)

When they were listing the price as "under $42" but actually charging $47.. That was very much meritorious for a class action.

For 2012... It would really depend on how the pricing really works out. But the failure to list a price, while only listing unrealistic savings... could definitely be actionable.

I see people claiming they regularly save 30%... But unless you are eating every CS meal at WPE.. and unless you take a time machine to get 1-credit dinners at Les cellier every night, that's just very very difficult to achieve.

Just to save 20% -- You would need to eat a $41 dinner, a $18 CS, and a $5 snack.

 

[dandave]

Just to save 20% -- You would need to eat a $41 dinner, a $18 CS, and a $5 snack.

Sample Day:
Flame Tree: Ribs $10.50, Water $2.50, water for dessert $2.50= $17ish w/tax
Boma: $40
Snack: $4
__________

That's $61. The plan only costs $46. That's 24% savings.


Sample Day 2:
Sunshine Seasons: Asian $10, Water $2.50, Strawberry Cake $4 = $18 w/tax
'Ohana: $33
Snack: $4
___________

That's $55. The plan costs $46. That's 16% savings.

Sample Day 3:
WPE: Spag w/Meatballs $16, Tea $2.65, Creme brulee $5 = $25 w/tax
Whispering CC: Pork loin $23, Coffee $2.65, Bread pudding $6.50 = $34 w/tax
Snack: $4
___________

That's $63. The plan costs $46. That's a 27% savings. I would have had the skillet ($29), which would have made it 33%, but I did the less expensive choice.

That's the way we eat at WDW.