Who's staying at the Four Seasons?

[MODisFan]

Pete posed the question on this weeks podcast about who would be staying at the Four Seasons and other high end hotels. I know who - it's the same people who can pay $31 for a stroller, $75 for a park ticket and afford to go to the high-end restaurants to eat a filet. Disney is making it more and more challenging for the average American to have an affordable "dream" vacation.

 

[simonkodousek]

I also know who! Annoying teenagers who constantly bug their parents to spend lots of $$$ on Disney hotels.

Just kidding... when I go to WDW, there just isn't as much magic staying off property as there is staying on property.

 

[MODisFan]

I... when I go to WDW, there just isn't as much magic staying off property as there is staying on property.

Agreed!

 

[tinkbutt]

when I go to WDW, there just isn't as much magic staying off property as there is staying on property.

I AGREE!!!

 

[IWISHFORDISNEY]

ITA about the offsite thing. I really didnt like staying at the Dolphin due to the few little things I was missing. I couldnt afford it anyway so no four seasons for me.

 

[simonkodousek]

Edit: I actually posted on this thread before I listened to the podcast (oops!) and heard Pete and Kevin mention that the rooms at the Four Seasons, Waldorf Astoria, and Ritz Carlton (which is the SAME as the Four Seasons FYI) could be had for the mere price of $1,500 or $2,000 per NIGHT!! Disney is not a millionaire's playground; leave that to Las Vegas, or at the very least, Disneyland CA and Disneyland Paris.

 

[NDM#1]

I can tell you who WON'T be staying there . . . ME! Well, unless my book does REALLY, REALLY, REALLY well in sales. Even then, though, I think I still have to stay in an actual Disney hotel.

 

[luke]

Disneyland Paris.

Disneyland Paris most certainly isn't, at least not in terms of hotel quality...

 

[FireDancer]

I would imagine that market research was done before the Four Seasons agreed to allot the capital expenditure needed to purchase (or lease) and develop the land.

It might be that the market research done by Disney didn’t show that this type of resort would be sustainable while the Four Season’s research did. This could be a legitimate reason for Disney allowing them to build and run the hotel on property. This way, the financial risk lies with Four Seasons while the financial benefit is shared.

This, of course, is all speculation since I was not in any of the planning meetings.

 

[alebisi]

I don't get it, why would I stay at a Four Seasons pay lots of $$$ at Disney? If I'm staying on-property I want Disney themed everywhere! It doesn't make sense to me, even if I were a millionare ... I'd stay at the polinesian or grand floridian or contemporary,..... not four season at Disney. If I'm staying off property is to save money. I agree with pete 100%!

 

[DHS_Flo]

.

 

[wilde_oscar]

I have my own rant about 4 seasons... but i am gonna compose and get all my thoughts in one place... but:

the Four Seasons is a brand that Disney cannot match for the market segment they play in. to the affinity group that is the four seasons customer, staying at the Grand Floridian is no different than staying at pop century. A four seasons customer not only drops $500 - $2000 a night for a room, but they use all of the hotels services... these are high end business executives, and the true idol rich leisure class. pete and the gang were hitting the nail right on the head with the talk of the bus, this level of customer is not getting on ME... the concept of sharing a bus would not occur to them; but completely missing the concept by thinking this is outsourcing or diluting the brand. these are customers that stay for weeks as a time... a Friend of mine that falls in this category of customer stays at the Grand Wailea in a villa on the beach for a couple of months during the winter... well his wife does, he goes back and forth several times while she is out there, while he takes care of running a pretty large plastics manufacturing empire. He and I have talked about Disney and staying at disney world... and it is not that they don't like disney, it is just that there is no place on property that caters to their situation of needing a business center, to entertain clients, to provide privacy, to show the attention to detail, to be exclusive, etc. that Four Seasons is known for world wide.

It is not that Disney can't do it, but that Four Seasons is already known for it and has the client base, the mailing lists, the contacts, the management team that can put a world class 5 star resort in place and have it running in a couple years. Disney just down not have the experience, or the brand identity to meet the expectations of someone that drops $500 a day on greens fees while on vacation. if you have a Bentley are you going to take it to Midas for shocks or Earl Shibe for new paint (not sure those references will make sense to everyone)? Put another way, would you ask your insurance agent to perform your gall bladder operation? they are two very different specialties... in this case the disney hotels are marketing to one group, the four seasons to another... and they are not outsourcing this hotel, they are bringing in the expert with experience that cannot match in house. Managers don't leave the four seasons, they are too good at what they do and well compensated for it... Disney can't hire in the expertise at this level, because their business model, benefits and compensation package doesn't work in the way that Four Seasons already has in place. I keep coming back to, they are allowing experts to bring in a customer that they alone cannot. The lake Buena Vista hotels? are those hotels outsourced? should disney take them over and run them? or do they cater to a customer base different than that serviced by the on site disney branded hotels? this situation is completely different than outsourcing, the use of the word outsourcing includes connotations that are not what this situation is about.

 

[NDM#1]

these are customers that stay for weeks as a time... a Friend of mine that falls in this category.

Can I be friends with your friends?! I promise that I could provide them with plenty of entertainment!

 

[disneyholic family]

i've stayed at the four season on maui, but i doubt i'd stay at the one at WDW for the same reason i don't usually stay at the swan or dolphin or offsite (though we did stay at the villas of grand cypress one year when i was really ticked off at disney)...

for some reason, i enjoy staying on disney property in a disney hotel...

if however, disney stops providing that (hard to define) 'disney' experience, i suppose i might consider one of the outsourced high end onsite hotels...

 

[MODisFan]

I agree with wildoscar - I don't consider the building of these hotels outsourcing. The wealth of the people WO describes is something I can only dream about.

One thing I do find ironic about the situation is that Disneyland made a huge stink about low income housing possibley being built near their park (the same people who work for them and/or save for years to take their family on a dream vacation). BUT, they don't appear to think twice about selling Disneyworld property to build hotels for the incredibley wealthy that could afford to come anytime they want.

To me it's just sad to see this happening at WDW. I know it's a bit naive to think that WDW will stay purely "Disney" but one can hope.

 

[BriarRosie]

I agree with wildoscar - I don't consider the building of these hotels outsourcing. The wealth of the people WO describes is something I can only dream about.

One thing I do find ironic about the situation is that Disneyland made a huge stink about low income housing possibley being built near their park (the same people who work for them and/or save for years to take their family on a dream vacation). BUT, they don't appear to think twice about selling Disneyworld property to build hotels for the incredibley wealthy that could afford to come anytime they want.

To me it's just sad to see this happening at WDW. I know it's a bit naive to think that WDW will stay purely "Disney" but one can hope.

Well...there's already a non-Disney owned resort on Disney's border that isn't on Hotel Plaza Blvd. and not the Swan or Dolphin...

The Bonnet Creek Resort is right off of Buena Vista Drive, and most people who drive by don't really give it a second glance. The Four Seasons location will be just as remote, as will be located back by Fort Wilderness, encompassing the former Eagle Pines golf course. I think most WDW guests won't even know it's there.

 

[wilde_oscar]

ah, but some of the bonnet creek buildings can be seen from CBR, and it does break up the eye line depending on where you drive in from. But Four Seasons resorts of this type usually are low slung, not very tall.

 

[jcb]

Sight line concerns me as well. This is an artists rendering (from Orlando Sentinel Blog)

 

[DisneyKevin]

Whether you agree with the phrase "outsourcing" or not is really besides the point.

Disney is selling chunks of land to outside vendors and there in lies the rub.

Were this Four Seasons on anything other than Disney property, no one would think twice.

Within a few square miles, we will now have a Ritz Carlton, a Waldorf Astoria (one of the most fabled residence hotels in the world) and Four Seasons.

We have to wonder, is Kissimmee really calling for that number of 5 star hotels?
While we all thought it was weird that Disney didn't buy the Bonnet Creek property, there was not the "sick in the pit of your stomach" feeling when they announced the Waldorf Astoria, as there is for the Four Seasons.

The difference??? They didt sell off part of WDW to build it.

 

[disneyholic family]

Whether you agree with the phrase "outsourcing" or not is really besides the point.

Disney is selling chunks of land to outside vendors and there in lies the rub.

Were this Four Seasons on anything other than Disney property, no one would think twice.

Within a few square miles, we will now have a Ritz Carlton, a Waldorf Astoria (one of the most fabled residence hotels in the world) and Four Seasons.

We have to wonder, is Kissimmee really calling for that number of 5 star hotels?
While we all thought it was weird that Disney didn't buy the Bonnet Creek property, there was not the "sick in the pit of your stomach" feeling when they announced the Waldorf Astoria, as there is for the Four Seasons.

The difference??? They didt sell off part of WDW to build it.

you're right Kevin, and i stand corrected...

it's terrible that they've sold a piece of the legacy...

there is certainly plenty of land in the area that could have been used for these properties...
grand cypress is nearby but not on disney property....the waldorf, ritz and 4 seasons could have done the same...