Who thinks the CDC will roll back their new mask rules from two days ago?

[wenrob]

It would certainly be a HIPAA violation if the state or my HMO discloses that information directly to a third party without my explicit consent, which would have to happen in order for there to be any kind of verification. I know exactly what HIPAA is, my wife and I both deal with it daily for work.

That’s not what you said though. These systems would need your consent just like any other system where you show your medical records/vaccine status. You have the choice to provide proof or not if you want to do whatever needs proof. HIPPA has nothing to do with it.

 

[DisneyJamieCA]

It would certainly be a HIPAA violation if the state or my HMO discloses that information directly to a third party without my explicit consent, which would have to happen in order for there to be any kind of verification. I know exactly what HIPAA is, my wife and I both deal with it daily for work.

If they disclosed it, yes. But not if you supplied it. And that is separate from frequenting private businesses who require proof. Your posts reads as that you are lumping all those things into the same situation. Hence the number of replies you got.

 

[AndreaA]

If they disclosed it, yes. But not if you supplied it. And that is separate from frequenting private businesses who require proof. Your posts reads as that you are lumping all those things into the same situation. Hence the number of replies you got.

No, not really... if someone supplies “proof” there would need to be a way to check it. That would require someone along the line to share that medical info - so not only would you need to supply proof, you’d need to sign a new HIPAA waver with the owner of that info so that it could be shared. I have serious doubts about anyone wanting to go down that path.

In any event, when businesses start requiring proof of flu, measles, and other vaccines, then I will believe they’ll require proof for Covid. Thus far only places like schools require proof of vaccination and they have exemptions for medical and religious reasons - and the “proof” of those exemptions is a simple form signed by the parent/person. I exempted my kids from varicella vaccine and HepB (var. they now have, HepB they will get at 16, and yes their pediatrician agrees with my reasoning) so I know they don’t require a note from a doctor or pastor or something. Proof of covid vaccine would also need exemptions, and again I doubt they would require anything official - it would simply be too onerous to check the veracity, and heck WDW can’t even ask for proof of disability to get a DAS pass due to privacy laws attached to the ADA - reasons for not getting a covid vaccine could easily fall under that.

 

[DisneyJamieCA]

No, not really... if someone supplies “proof” there would need to be a way to check it. That would require someone along the line to share that medical info - so not only would you need to supply proof, you’d need to sign a new HIPAA waver with the owner of that info so that it could be shared. I have serious doubts about anyone wanting to go down that path.

In any event, when businesses start requiring proof of flu, measles, and other vaccines, then I will believe they’ll require proof for Covid. Thus far only places like schools require proof of vaccination and they have exemptions for medical and religious reasons - and the “proof” of those exemptions is a simple form signed by the parent/person. I exempted my kids from varicella vaccine and HepB (var. they now have, HepB they will get at 16, and yes their pediatrician agrees with my reasoning) so I know they don’t require a note from a doctor or pastor or something. Proof of covid vaccine would also need exemptions, and again I doubt they would require anything official - it would simply be too onerous to check the veracity, and heck WDW can’t even ask for proof of disability to get a DAS pass due to privacy laws attached to the ADA - reasons for not getting a covid vaccine could easily fall under that.

No, it wouldn’t be a HIPAA violation because you would agree to have your record verified. When you agree to it, it’s not a violation. You have a problem with it. I have zero problem allowing my vaccination status being verified. I think you’re incorrect about how many people would have a problem allowing verification

I don’t necessarily think businesses will require proof and that clearly was not any part of anything I said. I am strictly talking about what constitutes a HIPAA violation. A business requiring it wouldn’t violate it. Nor would a voluntary verification process. If somebody doesn’t want to supply/allow that information and therefore not frequent those businesses, that is well within their rights, as I said. But people need to stop throwing around it being a HIPAA violation when it’s not.

But on what you’re saying, exceptions aren’t allowed in public schools anymore in California , with the occasional medical ones. But those have VERY strict allowances and guidelines. So that very much varies state by state.

ETA: without being rude, I don’t care whether your kids’ pediatrician agrees with your reasoning or not. It’s none of my business and I’m unsure why you said it. But I will point out that in your quest for privacy, you just told an entire public message board your kids’ vaccination status.

 

[AndreaA]

ETA: without being rude, I don’t care whether your kids’ pediatrician agrees with your reasoning or not. It’s none of my business and I’m unsure why you said it. But I will point out that in your quest for privacy, you just told an entire public message board your kids’ vaccination status.

Well sadly I’ve noticed that if anyone posts anything even slightly anti-vax here, it is jumped all over with “you should consult a doctor” which is why I mentioned it. I have zero worries about voicing my kids’ vaccination info to a board of random people. That has nothing to do with privacy.

As for the rest, I never said that anything I talked about would violate HIPAA. Not one mention of it. I was talking about the difficulty of getting the HIPAA waivers required to check any of that information and supply it to random businesses. I stand by that. Business simply aren’t set up to get that information - and then it would also be their responsibility to keep it private which is another whole issue.

 

[DisneyJamieCA]

As for the rest, I never said that anything I talked about would violate HIPAA. Not one mention of it. I was talking about the difficulty of getting the HIPAA waivers required to check any of that information and supply it to random businesses. I stand by that. Business simply aren’t set up to get that information - and then it would also be their responsibility to keep it private which is another whole issue.

Well my post you quoted and replied to was discussing what does and does not constitute a HIPAA violation...but ok

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

In any event, when businesses start requiring proof of flu, measles, and other vaccines, then I will believe they’ll require proof for Covid. Thus far only places like schools require proof of vaccination and they have exemptions for medical and religious reasons - and the “proof” of those exemptions is a simple form signed by the parent/person. I exempted my kids from varicella vaccine and HepB (var. they now have, HepB they will get at 16, and yes their pediatrician agrees with my reasoning) so I know they don’t require a note from a doctor or pastor or something. Proof of covid vaccine would also need exemptions, and again I doubt they would require anything official - it would simply be too onerous to check the veracity, and heck WDW can’t even ask for proof of disability to get a DAS pass due to privacy laws attached to the ADA - reasons for not getting a covid vaccine could easily fall under that.

Well sadly I’ve noticed that if anyone posts anything even slightly anti-vax here, it is jumped all over with “you should consult a doctor” which is why I mentioned it. I have zero worries about voicing my kids’ vaccination info to a board of random people. That has nothing to do with privacy.

Respectfully I understand you sometimes feel backed into a corner but when you share these details, especially unsolicited and especially making sure we know your ped agreed with your decision, you put yourself out there to be backed into the corner you don't want to be backed into and if people rise to that bait you get defensive (and I don't mean that rudely). I don't even recall anyone talking on this thread about other vaccines or what their kids have gotten. Now knowing that you exempted your kids from other vaccines makes more sense your stance on other things related to the vaccine but yeah I probably didn't need to know that. You may not have concerns regarding privacy but it def. seems to bring out something else.

**I really just shared this because for someone who doesn't want people to comment on their health decisions they made for themselves and their children you share that information voluntarily across various threads and sometimes in unrelated to the topic. It's my attempt at a kind nudge if you will and I hope that's how it comes across.

 

[OregonDisDad]

All the HIPPA comments aside (clearly there would be issues to work through), there is no way private businesses are going to require vaccine validation. Aside from HIPPA, they would need to deal with a variety of state and local laws, and likely civil rights challenges. Businesses operating across state lines also would have to find a policy that would work in jurisdictions with differing perspectives.

There also is no way the feds could get their arms around this hugely controversial issue. It’s a short term issue (to force vaccine compliance) with huge mid and long term costs. Those opposed to passport vaccines will not relent by the next election, but those pushing for them will lose interest as soon as they come to terms with the threat being gone (likely over the summer, or by the fall). Also, there certainly would be states refusing to enforce, or provide data, so we would not have national info until that went though the courts. They’ll hint at it, but it is not going to happen.

Despite the concerns we are hearing here, states continue to announce reduced or eliminated restrictions. They clearly have made a political calculation, and concluded that mandates have to go, and have to go soon. Businesses will move cautiously in this direction as well (generally electing to keep mask requirements in place over verifying vaccine status), putting more pressure on the feds and states to stop distinguishing between people based on vaccine status. I really think that we are done with masks by mid-June.

 

[AndreaA]

Respectfully I understand you sometimes feel backed into a corner but when you share these details, especially unsolicited and especially making sure we know your ped agreed with your decision, you put yourself out there to be backed into the corner you don't want to be backed into and if people rise to that bait you get defensive (and I don't mean that rudely). I don't even recall anyone talking on this thread about other vaccines or what their kids have gotten. Now knowing that you exempted your kids from other vaccines makes more sense your stance on other things related to the vaccine but yeah I probably didn't need to know that. You may not have concerns regarding privacy but it def. seems to bring out something else.

**I really just shared this because for someone who doesn't want people to comment on their health decisions they made for themselves and their children you share that information voluntarily across various threads and sometimes in unrelated to the topic. It's my attempt at a kind nudge if you will and I hope that's how it comes across.

What does any of this personal “nudging” have to do with anything being discussed? I mentioned the boys’ vaccines because I was discussing how easy it is to opt out of them even for something like school, which I believe would easily equate to opting out of the covid vaccine being similarly easy. I’m not sure how the fact I’ve exempted them (for a time) from two out of a dozen+ vaccine shots makes my stance on ”vaccine related things” make more sense unless it’s that my stance is one of wanting to be fully informed as a parent and not blindly submitting to medical things just because it’s SOP. Yes, that is absolutely true. I research the crap out of practically everything. Heck, that’s how I even found this board years ago.

For the record, I wouldn’t be in favor of requiring vaccine information for anything, AND I’M VACCINATED AND I DON’T CARE WHO KNOWS IT. Just because I don’t care doesn’t mean that I think everyone else should have to give up their private information to do basic things like shop or go to an amusement park.

 

[AndreaA]

DELETED COPY

 

[aprilchem]

children wearing mask should still have a 17-30% protection from direct exposure while wearing mask.

Another way of saying this - children wearing a mask have a 70-87% risk of getting COVID from direct exposure.

 

[AndreaA]

All the HIPPA comments aside (clearly there would be issues to work through), there is no way private businesses are going to require vaccine validation. Aside from HIPPA, they would need to deal with a variety of state and local laws, and likely civil rights challenges. Businesses operating across state lines also would have to find a policy that would work in jurisdictions with differing perspectives.

There also is no way the feds could get their arms around this hugely controversial issue. It’s a short term issue (to force vaccine compliance) with huge mid and long term costs. Those opposed to passport vaccines will not relent by the next election, but those pushing for them will lose interest as soon as they come to terms with the threat being gone (likely over the summer, or by the fall). Also, there certainly would be states refusing to enforce, or provide data, so we would not have national info until that went though the courts. They’ll hint at it, but it is not going to happen.

Despite the concerns we are hearing here, states continue to announce reduced or eliminated restrictions. They clearly have made a political calculation, and concluded that mandates have to go, and have to go soon. Businesses will move cautiously in this direction as well (generally electing to keep mask requirements in place over verifying vaccine status), putting more pressure on the feds and states to stop distinguishing between people based on vaccine status. I really think that we are done with masks by mid-June.

YES! ALL OF THIS! Thank you, honestly THIS is what I have been trying to get across.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

What does any of this personal “nudging” have to do with anything being discussed? I mentioned the boys’ vaccines because I was discussing how easy it is to opt out of them even for something like school, which I believe would easily equate to opting out of the covid vaccine being similarly easy. I’m not sure how the fact I’ve exempted them (for a time) from two out of a dozen+ vaccine shots makes my stance on ”vaccine related things” make more sense unless it’s that my stance is one of wanting to be fully informed as a parent and not blindly submitting to medical things just because it’s SOP. Yes, that is absolutely true. I research the crap out of practically everything. Heck, that’s how I even found this board years ago.

For the record, I wouldn’t be in favor of requiring vaccine information for anything, AND I’M VACCINATED AND I DON’T CARE WHO KNOWS IT. Just because I don’t care doesn’t mean that I think everyone else should have to give up their private information to do basic things like shop or go to an amusement park.

Because you may not have realized? The rest of your comment doesn't have much to do with what I was saying but does illustrate my point quite pointedly and clearly I myself rose to the bait on this one. I was honestly trying to be as delicate and polite as can be. My apologies as it appears my attempt wasn't received. I'll leave it as what was already said and move on

 

[DLgal]

People are making way too much out of a potential vaccine verification system. Such a system, if implemented in the USA, would almost CERTAINLY be voluntary, and would require a full OPT IN by the participants. Businesses or venues who choose to require vaccines would simply be a participant on whatever network gets established. This is ALREADY being done in some places. Its not the privacy trap so many people seem to think it is. Its similar to programs like Clear, or Global Entry. You pay to join those, and as a member you have access to the credentials needed to gain access to various perks. I have "electronically signed" a bunch of HIPAA forms for various entities. It's not a big deal.

It's not some nefarious thing for an entity to scan a QR code that verifies that you are who you say you are and you have been vaccinated. Sheesh...you would think people are being asked about their last STD test results. It's a vaccine that hundreds of millions of people have gotten so far.

I can tell you that Orange County, CA, and the state at large, is working on creating a vaccine passport system. While the Karen's of the OC are busy showing up to county board of supervisors meetings yelling HIPAA until they turn blue in the face, the county is patiently waiting until they get tired of talking so they can go ahead with this. They have already said that anyone who got vaccinated at a county run site would be able to verify their status in whatever system they roll out. They are working with the Federal Pharmacy partners like CVS and Walgreens to integrate their records for seamless verification as well. It's gonna happen in some places whether people like the idea or not. Its legal and there is a market for this kind of thing, so you better believe there are already companies who are focusing on developing these kinds of apps.

 

[Erica Ladd]

It’s a slippery slope

 

[sam_gordon]

All the HIPPA comments aside (clearly there would be issues to work through), there is no way private businesses are going to require vaccine validation. Aside from HIPPA, they would need to deal with a variety of state and local laws, and likely civil rights challenges. Businesses operating across state lines also would have to find a policy that would work in jurisdictions with differing perspectives.

I'm curious what laws & civil rights would be violated by a private business asking for proof of vaccination, and then barring those who can't (or won't) show such proof. As I understand it, the unvaccinated don't fall under a "protected class" (race, gender, religion, etc) so as long as a business treats ALL unvaccinated the same, where's the violation?

That being said, I don't think any business will require vaccination proof of customers. It will be too difficult to verify. If it can't be verified, what's the point?

 

[mrs. magoo]

Respectfully, I think you are misusing the term “vulnerable”. The ones most vulnerable to Covid are those who are most likely to have severe cases (which generally include the elderly, and those with specific medical conditions). Being susceptible to catching Covid because you are unvaccinated does not make you vulnerable. A healthy young adult (who is unvaccinated) is very likely to be no more vulnerable to Covid than they would be to seasonal flu. Based on current data children actually may be more vulnerable to seasonal flu..

People who are not vaccinated are certainly more vulnerable to Covid. And all because you get a "mild" case does not mean that you will not have issues. We have 3 young adult friends who are all athletes. They contracted mild cases of Covid - meaning they had what would be considered a cold and runny nose and a slight cough for 2 or 3 days (none even took any meds). All 3 now have heart issues. One is not getting better. The other 2 have echos that are improving. They did not have any issues before Covid. They were all required in the fall to have ekgs which were normal. After testing positive they were again required to undergo ekgs which red flagged them for more testing. So yes those who are not vaccinated are among the vulnerable.

 

[DeeBee3]

I posted this on another thread, because I don't understand. The media attempted to terrorize parents about Multi Inflammatory Syndrome due to Covd.

And the whole "My mask protects you, your mask protects me".

All of a sudden, children don't matter anymore? Why isn't the CDC releasing breaking news that Multi Inflammatory Syndrome no longer a concern, since we can now be around children maskless?

Vaccinated people can still get covid and pass it to others. Look what just happened to the vaccinated NY Yankees players.

As a parent, I understand your concern. Statistically, it is incredibly rare. There are approx 73 million people under the age of 18 in the US and the CDC has reported 3,742 cases of MIS-C since the beginning of the pandemic (as of May 3, 2021). That is 0.00005% - I mean - it's statistically 0.

Obviously, for anyone dealing with that, it is awful, but it is not something pervasive at this point.

 

[amylevan]

The more I read on here, the more I realize that no one must actually read the HIPAA forms when they sign them.

You telling someone you’re vaccinated has nothing to do with HIPAA. A store asking to see proof of vaccination doesn’t have anything to do with HIPAA. Why would you need to sign a HIPAA waiver to enter that store? If you flash a code on your phone or an actual vaccination card, unless they are storing that information and intend to share it with someone, why would you need to sign a waiver?

 

[Chuck S]

No, not really... if someone supplies “proof” there would need to be a way to check it. That would require someone along the line to share that medical info - so not only would you need to supply proof, you’d need to sign a new HIPAA waver with the owner of that info so that it could be shared. I have serious doubts about anyone wanting to go down that path.

Considering back in the dark ages when I went to school we HAD to have proof of vaccinations or they showed up at school with vaccine guns and pumped them into you, I just can't consider proof of vaccination on the same level as telling someone your entire medical history. Two very different things. It's more like disclosing your food allergies to a restaurant before ordering a meal.