Who said Harry Potter was a passing fad?

[kmk1180]

Which is why you need to read what I said before you type. I said the original CityWalk predates PI by 5 years, and that Disney got the idea for PI from that and wanted to have it in Orlando before US built one there.

Alsoplustoo, Wiki isn't the most reliable source for information, as you yourself could have edited the entry you're quoting.

Ok....
According to Google.....
History of Universal City Walk

May 1993 - Located approximately nine miles northwest of downtown Los Angeles, Universal City Walk represents the latest trend in urban retailing centers. A descendant of Boston's Faneuil Hall festival marketplace, City Walk, which opened in May 1993, blends specialty ...Located approximately nine miles northwest of downtown Los Angeles, Universal City Walk represents the latest trend in urban retailing centers. A descendant of Boston's Faneuil Hall festival marketplace, City Walk, which opened in May 1993, blends specialty retailing and food with entertainment in an open-air street setting. But unlike its predecessor, the emphasis of City Walk is on entertainment. City Walk is a main street that was created to connect all of Universal City's ...

According to Ask.com and Yahoo.com

OverviewThis fun area is located in Universal Studios and connects all the Universal City attractions. It opened in 1993 and is an open-air street featuring retail stores, movies, bars

last I checked that's still 4 years after PI.

you were saying....????

 

[kmk1180]

http://www.wdwinfo.com/universal/universal-studios-florida/History-of-universal-orlando.htm

This article doesn't make sense....to quote..
"CityWalk almost from the start replaced Pleasure Island and Church Street Station as the preferred nighttime destination for Orlando locals"
"the fact is that the original CityWalk at Universal Hollywood pre-dates Pleasure Island by more than 5 years."

How can it REPLACE PI and Church St if CW was there 5 years before.
Answer it can't. it can only REPLACE something popular if it FOLLOWED the previous ones.
They have their facts wrong...a quick internet search proves that.

 

[NoLineOntheHorizon]

"Every artist is a cannibal, every poet is a thief."

By the way, Disneyland opened before Universal Studios the Theme Park. So, who really started it all?

 

[Mookie Blaylock]

Interesting discussion, there are a couple points I disagree with

The concept that disney dances to its own tune and doesn't respond to competition.
1. WDW it self is direct response to all the hotels in the vicinity of Disneyland, Walt did not like that other's where profiting from his risk taking, nor should he have, and devised a way to control everything.
2. MGM was a direct result of US coming into Orlando. Yes MGM was built a year ahead but US was announced before and as WDWINFO points out("Welcome to the theme park that Disney slapped together the minute Universal Studios announced plans for a park in Florida." They did beat out Universal which opened in 1990, but the then "Disney MGM Studios" was sorely lacking in attractions and was far from a full day park. and only opened with 4 attractions.
3. MMNSHP is a direct response to US Halloween Horror nights, yes different atmospheres but US was first in creating a separate night ticket event.
4. DAK is a direct response to Busch Gardens in Tampa. Disney does not like visitors venturing out of WDW and the drive down I-4 was very easy back in the day.

In all those cases Disney has responded to direct competition and created something better than what there competitors did IMHO. I wonder what WDW would be like today with out US/Sea World/Busch Gardens. The fact is all business need to be pushed or they will milk the cow till it's dry.

Other point someone said that HP would take them away from WDW for a day but they would just add one more day to there trip. Most families don't have that option so that is a day loss of revenue for WDW. One day away from the restaurants, park ticket and merchandise. Also since a lot of WDW visitors these days use the ME there are transportation issues getting to US. Maybe I will rent a car and if I rent a car maybe I will eat away from WDW more. One day can have a big impact.

Anyways I hope HP kicks butt and I hope it kicks Disney's butt. WDW is my favorite park in the world and I want it to be pushed.

 

[tjkraz]

The concept that disney dances to its own tune and doesn't respond to competition.

Just to clarify, I never said that Disney "dances to its own tune." Those are the words of another poster erroneously paraphrasing my comments.

Certainly they have been influenced by a variety of factors including new technological advances, changes in public taste and what the competition has done. Sure Disney grows its parks because it has to fend off the competition. But they also have a long track record of growing their parks when the competition was either nonexistent or a shadow of what it is now.

Is competition the only thing that motivates Disney to act? No, absolutely not. It's one element, but not the entire equation. Theme parks have to continue to offer new attractions simply to maintain attendance levels, much less see them grow.

And quite frankly Disney's inaction over the last 2 years suggests that they aren't in any rush to one-up Universal. (But I'm sure some of my fellow sideline theme park proprietors will come up with another reason to discount that fact.)

 

[kmk1180]

Interesting discussion, there are a couple points I disagree with

The concept that disney dances to its own tune and doesn't respond to competition.
1. WDW it self is direct response to all the hotels in the vicinity of Disneyland, Walt did not like that other's where profiting from his risk taking, nor should he have, and devised a way to control everything.
2. MGM was a direct result of US coming into Orlando. Yes MGM was built a year ahead but US was announced before and as WDWINFO points out("Welcome to the theme park that Disney slapped together the minute Universal Studios announced plans for a park in Florida." They did beat out Universal which opened in 1990, but the then "Disney MGM Studios" was sorely lacking in attractions and was far from a full day park. and only opened with 4 attractions.

Check your history facts...MGM was PLANNED long before US annouced.
The rush came when both started to build at the same time.
But MGM was and is not a direct result of US.


3. MMNSHP is a direct response to US Halloween Horror nights, yes different atmospheres but US was first in creating a separate night ticket event.

That may be true.

4. DAK is a direct response to Busch Gardens in Tampa. Disney does not like visitors venturing out of WDW and the drive down I-4 was very easy back in the day.

Really? I'm 40 and remember going to Busch Gardens as a kid like 30 years ago. DAK is what? 10? Hardly a direct response. or even a threat to Disney if it were, that would have been build before EPCOT.


In all those cases Disney has responded to direct competition and created something better than what there competitors did IMHO. I wonder what WDW would be like today with out US/Sea World/Busch Gardens. The fact is all business need to be pushed or they will milk the cow till it's dry.

Other point someone said that HP would take them away from WDW for a day but they would just add one more day to there trip. Most families don't have that option so that is a day loss of revenue for WDW. One day away from the restaurants, park ticket and merchandise. Also since a lot of WDW visitors these days use the ME there are transportation issues getting to US. Maybe I will rent a car and if I rent a car maybe I will eat away from WDW more. One day can have a big impact.


Anyways I hope HP kicks butt and I hope it kicks Disney's butt. WDW is my favorite park in the world and I want it to be pushed.

Your last two points are opinoins and there's nothing wrong with pushing Disney, don't disagree.
The orginal topic started saying HP will be huge and hurt Disney..
Sorry I don't see it. From what I've read they are RENAMING Dueling Dragons. RENAMING another atraction.
I assume there will be a HP ride. And almost certainly stores with souveniers including a magic shop. And I would think a resturant.
None of that is worth entire trips for. it's not even close to all immersing as some have suggested.
Beyond that, there's no HUGE draw to keep people there long term.

Will it take away people for a day? Maybe, but I think not much more than there is now. US does that as is a little. Those will be the same people who will now go to IoA and spend their time, then return to Disney.

The problem with HP area is there's nothing beyond 2011 to sustain it.
No new books. only 2 movies 1 of which will be released before the area opens. The 1 section of 1 park won't even open till what 2010? Maybe?
They will have 1 good year of hype to connect with the last movie to be released.
Oh yes it will be popular at first but doesn't look like it has the long term stay.
I think it's the same thing US has always done. Grab the popular thing at the moment. Back to the Future, Jurrasic Park, Hulk, Simpsons, Spiderman, Shrek, Men in Black...the list goes on.
All huge things at one time but none has a lasting draw because there's nothing to sustain it later.

IMHO.

 

[Mookie Blaylock]

Your last two points are opinoins and there's nothing wrong with pushing Disney, don't disagree.
The orginal topic started saying HP will be huge and hurt Disney..
Sorry I don't see it. From what I've read they are RENAMING Dueling Dragons. RENAMING another atraction.
I assume there will be a HP ride. And almost certainly stores with souveniers including a magic shop. And I would think a resturant.
None of that is worth entire trips for. it's not even close to all immersing as some have suggested.
Beyond that, there's no HUGE draw to keep people there long term.

Will it take away people for a day? Maybe, but I think not much more than there is now. US does that as is a little. Those will be the same people who will now go to IoA and spend their time, then return to Disney.

The problem with HP area is there's nothing beyond 2011 to sustain it.
No new books. only 2 movies 1 of which will be released before the area opens. The 1 section of 1 park won't even open till what 2010? Maybe?
They will have 1 good year of hype to connect with the last movie to be released.
Oh yes it will be popular at first but doesn't look like it has the long term stay.
I think it's the same thing US has always done. Grab the popular thing at the moment. Back to the Future, Jurrasic Park, Hulk, Simpsons, Spiderman, Shrek, Men in Black...the list goes on.
All huge things at one time but none has a lasting draw because there's nothing to sustain it later.

IMHO.

Fair enough.

I do think that HP has a little more sustainability than most of their properties just because they are children's book first and movies second. But yes HP is more pop culture than classic charters and it's hard to predict what will happen in the future.

 

[Rip]

Right or wrong, Disney dances to their own tune these days. Eisner would have gone with the knee-jerk reaction of trying to best Universal. Not current management.

I didn't "erroneously paraphrase" anything, doll.

BTW, Eisner once saved that company from bankruptcy with his "knee-jerk reactions".

 

[Rip]

This article doesn't make sense....to quote..
"CityWalk almost from the start replaced Pleasure Island and Church Street Station as the preferred nighttime destination for Orlando locals"
"the fact is that the original CityWalk at Universal Hollywood pre-dates Pleasure Island by more than 5 years."

How can it REPLACE PI and Church St if CW was there 5 years before.
Answer it can't. it can only REPLACE something popular if it FOLLOWED the previous ones.
They have their facts wrong...a quick internet search proves that.

You do realize Church St. Station and PI are both located in Orlando, yes? And that the original CityWalk is not?

I'm awaiting clarification on whether the original CityWalk concept pre-dates PI, as there are conflicting sources (yes, multiple sources state that the original CityWalk was the first entertainment complex of its kind, not just wdwinfo).

More to the point, though. Those like you that don't believe US puts a dent in Disney's pocketbook obviously don't miss the Adventurer's Club.

 

[Rip]

Interesting discussion, there are a couple points I disagree with

The concept that disney dances to its own tune and doesn't respond to competition.
1. WDW it self is direct response to all the hotels in the vicinity of Disneyland, Walt did not like that other's where profiting from his risk taking, nor should he have, and devised a way to control everything.

A man that knows his history, and exactly right.

2. MGM was a direct result of US coming into Orlando. Yes MGM was built a year ahead but US was announced before and as WDWINFO points out("Welcome to the theme park that Disney slapped together the minute Universal Studios announced plans for a park in Florida." They did beat out Universal which opened in 1990, but the then "Disney MGM Studios" was sorely lacking in attractions and was far from a full day park. and only opened with 4 attractions.
3. MMNSHP is a direct response to US Halloween Horror nights, yes different atmospheres but US was first in creating a separate night ticket event.
4. DAK is a direct response to Busch Gardens in Tampa. Disney does not like visitors venturing out of WDW and the drive down I-4 was very easy back in the day.

In all those cases Disney has responded to direct competition and created something better than what there competitors did IMHO. I wonder what WDW would be like today with out US/Sea World/Busch Gardens. The fact is all business need to be pushed or they will milk the cow till it's dry.

Other point someone said that HP would take them away from WDW for a day but they would just add one more day to there trip. Most families don't have that option so that is a day loss of revenue for WDW. One day away from the restaurants, park ticket and merchandise. Also since a lot of WDW visitors these days use the ME there are transportation issues getting to US. Maybe I will rent a car and if I rent a car maybe I will eat away from WDW more. One day can have a big impact.

Anyways I hope HP kicks butt and I hope it kicks Disney's butt. WDW is my favorite park in the world and I want it to be pushed.

I'll only disagree with comparing MNSSHP to HHN, because Universal wins that competition hands down (and Disney has toyed with the idea of adding a more adult-oriented halloween hard-ticketed item at MGM for years - in direct response to HHN).

As I've stated earlier, as long as there is stiff competition for our entertainment dollars, we all win. The most die-hard Disney fan should wholeheartedly welcome this, it will only make Disney a better place.

 

[Rip]

Fair enough.

I do think that HP has a little more sustainability than most of their properties just because they are children's book first and movies second. But yes HP is more pop culture than classic charters and it's hard to predict what will happen in the future.

That and the fact that US has made a point to put more technologically advanced rides in. Disney really has nothing that compares to Spiderman, The Mummy or Shrek 4D (and Buzz Lightyear hardly compares with MIB, for that matter).

As I said earlier, it will definitely draw people away from Disney moreso than what US already does. Attempting to compare things like ET or even Jurassic Park to what they are likely doing with this 20-acre section of the park is a bit disengenious, IMO. They won't be comparable.

 

[tjkraz]

I didn't "erroneously paraphrase" anything, doll.

Fair enough!

Nevertheless I stand by my comments. Even that one.

Did Disney continue to expand its theme parks when they were the only game in town? Yup.

Was Disney growing the empire before US/IOA arrived? You betcha.

Would Disney continue to add attractions even if there were no US/IOA, Sea World or Busch Gardens? Absolutely.

Has Disney come forward to counter Universal in the 26 months since WWHP was announced? Nope.

Sure they will be influenced by what others do. But, I don't see the competition driving every decision that they make...not the way it did when ME was in charge.

I share your hope that Universal will be able to push Disney. But lately they don't seem to feel any pressure. Again, no big announcements to counter HP. Disney already holds a sizable lead over US/IOA in terms of attendance. And from 2006 to 2008 IOA attendance was flat while US went up 3.8% (despite high-profile additions like Mummy and Simpsons.) Combined increase was 1.9% over 3 years. Meanwhile Disney's parks collectively went up 4.5% over the same period.

And while 2009 hasn't been kind to Disney, US appears to be hurting even worse. Read the other day they've lifted blackout dates on seasonal passes just to get bodies into the parks. I thought people would really flock to The Simpsons last year. It's part of the reason we went to US back in March. But it only gave their attendance a .5% bump in '08.

How much bigger will WWHP be? And perhaps most importantly, will Disney even care?

Anyway, enough beating on US. We'll know in a year whether WWHP is any good. And we'll know in another 5 or 10 years whether it was a good business decision.

 

[Rip]

Fair enough!

Nevertheless I stand by my comments. Even that one.

Did Disney continue to expand its theme parks when they were the only game in town? Yup.

Was Disney growing the empire before US/IOA arrived? You betcha.

Would Disney continue to add attractions even if there were no US/IOA, Sea World or Busch Gardens? Absolutely.

Has Disney come forward to counter Universal in the 26 months since WWHP was announced? Nope.

Sure they will be influenced by what others do. But, I don't see the competition driving every decision that they make...not the way it did when ME was in charge.

I do not disagree with this for the most part, but I still tihnk you're discounting the effect US and SW have had on Disney's decisions. I also think you're beating up on poor Michael moreso than he deserves, milady. He was what Disney really needed at the time, his time just passed.

I share your hope that Universal will be able to push Disney. But lately they don't seem to feel any pressure. Again, no big announcements to counter HP. Disney already holds a sizable lead over US/IOA in terms of attendance. And from 2006 to 2008 IOA attendance was flat while US went up 3.8% (despite high-profile additions like Mummy and Simpsons.) Combined increase was 1.9% over 3 years. Meanwhile Disney's parks collectively went up 4.5% over the same period.

And while 2009 hasn't been kind to Disney, US appears to be hurting even worse. Read the other day they've lifted blackout dates on seasonal passes just to get bodies into the parks. I thought people would really flock to The Simpsons last year. It's part of the reason we went to US back in March. But it only gave their attendance a .5% bump in '08.

How much bigger will WWHP be? And perhaps most importantly, will Disney even care?

Anyway, enough beating on US. We'll know in a year whether WWHP is any good. And we'll know in another 5 or 10 years whether it was a good business decision.

Well, US increased it's profit while Disney did not, and you can bet the mouse is looking at how they did it to try and emulate it. They are, afterall, businesses. As such, if they don't earn a profit, at some point ME is going to have to step back in and show them how .

I hate the Simpsons ride. I can ride any coaster in the world, but simulators give me vertigo. (Spidey was my childhood favorite, so I take the glasses off and ride it because it really is a cool ride).

As an aside, I'd really like to know the exact formula all of them use to determine attendance. What they release to us can be misleading depending on how it is calculated.

Truce?

 

[tjkraz]

I also think you're beating up on poor Michael moreso than he deserves, milady. He was what Disney really needed at the time, his time just passed.

Oh, I think I respect ME's contributions more than most people around here. I shutter to think of what the WDW landscape might look like today if the company had been broken up in the mid-80s. And his knee-jerk reactions brought a lot of fun things to WDW that might not have materialized if a more analytical approach were used.

Well, US increased it's profit while Disney did not, and you can bet the mouse is looking at how they did it to try and emulate it. They are, afterall, businesses. As such, if they don't earn a profit, at some point ME is going to have to step back in and show them how .

The Disney parks have stayed quite profitable...just not nearly AS profitable as last year. My first thought was how bad 2008 profits had to be for US to improve in 2009.

haven't seen any real numbers, though, so it's hard to draw any conclusions.

I hate the Simpsons ride. I can ride any coaster in the world, but simulators give me vertigo. (Spidey was my childhood favorite, so I take the glasses off and ride it because it really is a cool ride).

Sounds like my wife. After Simpsons and Jimmy Neutron in the same day, she was reluctant to get on most other rides. Couldn't even get her on ET because of the "motion sickness" mention in the warnings. Spider-man....no way.

Truce?

Oh, I suppose.

 

[yitbos96bb]

That and the fact that US has made a point to put more technologically advanced rides in. Disney really has nothing that compares to Spiderman, The Mummy or Shrek 4D (and Buzz Lightyear hardly compares with MIB, for that matter).

As I said earlier, it will definitely draw people away from Disney moreso than what US already does. Attempting to compare things like ET or even Jurassic Park to what they are likely doing with this 20-acre section of the park is a bit disengenious, IMO. They won't be comparable.

Its a shame they never tried to outdo Spiderman... They could do an Incredibles ride with similar technology that would be amazing.

 

[Rip]

Its a shame they never tried to outdo Spiderman... They could do an Incredibles ride with similar technology that would be amazing.

No doubt, and just think of how much better the technology is now than 10-11 years ago (and they still don't have anything that compares to a ride that is a decade old).

I really think you're going to see some of the best and latest technology available when WWHP finally opens. That's what they've been doing with most all of their big additions (particularly the Mummy and Shrek 4D). As an aside, US is apparently contractually obligated to update the area and include as much from the last movies (and from what I've read, they are splitting the final book into 2 movies) as they have for each of the others. In other words, all of them are supposed to be represented relatively equally.

Should be fun.

 

[Condorman]

Apparently the new Harry Potter movie surpassed the last Batman movie (formerly number one) in midnight - opening night sales.......$22 million! Now that's alot of dedication to a movie to be there for the first show at midnight!

Now who said Harry Potter was a passing fad and Disney has nothing to worry about with the Harry Potter park?

I guess you spoke too soon, eh Mouseaholic?

In its second week out, Harry Potter was out-gerbalized by G-Force, $32 million to $30 million. How embarrassing for Universal -- they couldn't even hold on to #1 for two weeks. And I won't tell you who produced G-Force. I think you already know the answer to that. Passing fad is right.

 

[*Robin*]

Just injecting a small opinion here, but I have to think that if nothing else, the new WWHP will make people who never ventured to US stop by for a day or two to check it out.

Which could not only lead to a whole new Disney group discovering US, but also may cause plans to make it a tradition.

I know of at least 5 families here locally (I'm in Indiana where everyone goes to Florida to vacation and many of us are certified Disneyites) who are planning to make US a stop for the first time.

It's just an idea, but I think, if nothing else, people will discover the US is really a wonderful park that's been missed.

But I'm not full of all kinds of statistics or facts or anything like that....

 

[tjkraz]

With the recent talk of a Fantasyland upgrade, one theory did enter my mind regarding the timing in relation to WWHP.

If Disney moves forward with anything on the scale of the "leaked" plans, it would certainly be a 2.5-3 year project. At the same time, they have to realize that people will respond to the HP fad and give IOA a look after the attractions have opened.

So perhaps Disney is resigned to given IOA a window of 2010 and 2011 to attract curiosity-seekers. Then come 2012, Disney throws-open the doors on new Fantasyland--plus whatever else they have in the hoppers--to earn that business back.

While I still question the long-term viability of HP, it doesn't really matter what Disney opens in 2010. Even with Star Tours 2.0, Monsters Inc coaster, new Fantasyland, etc. many people are still going to check out WWHP. Why even try to go head-to-head with that?

It may be rather shrewd to allow US/IOA their moment in the sun and then come back swinging a year or so later. The thinking may be that once people have tried WWHP, Disney will unveil the "latest and greatest" at their own parks and folks will just slide back to their familiar Disney routines.

 

[Mouseaholic!!!]

I guess you spoke too soon, eh Mouseaholic?

In its second week out, Harry Potter was out-gerbalized by G-Force, $32 million to $30 million. How embarrassing for Universal -- they couldn't even hold on to #1 for two weeks. And I won't tell you who produced G-Force. I think you already know the answer to that. Passing fad is right.

Ahhhh, Condorman is back from the badlands.

Long term my dear....long term. I have no doublt that HP has longer legs (though not as MANY legs) than the G force.

It's all about the end game when the totals are counted. See you then Condorman!