Who Failed Him?

[ols386]

It's not as easy as knowing whats wrong. Many alcoholics know that their drinking is destroying lives but yet don't stop drinking. and yes, I know that some alcholics have genetic dispositions etc, etc. My point is that as usual the issue isn;t as black and white. I don't want to turn this into an "addiction" thread. I was just using that as an example.

Illegal immigrants know they are breaking the law but also do it for more pressing issues.

And why do you think gangs thrive? no they don't clothe and feed these kids, they give them some thing much more important, some thing that as humans we need. They give them attention, affection a sense of belonging even if it's totally misguided. Gang members know exactly how to recruit these kids. they know these kids are neglected and abadoned but at least inside the gang they feel like they have a "family".

So in answer to the OP,

every one failed him (including himself). It would be so nice if every one was able to deal ala John Wayne but "Pull yourself up by the bootstraps" only works if you actually have boots.

empathy, compassion, morale judgement are traits that are learned. research as shown as much. remember the study done on the orphans from Russia who were kept in an institution? So while he cannot continuely use his upbringing as a crutch, neither can he fully move on until he has dealt with the demons of his past.

Hey, look at how many of us are still bearing the scars from our history. I think it's a bit unrealistic to say that abuse and neglect from childhood is not going to have a lasting effect on people.

That's a good post!




I cringe when I hear someone say pull youself up by your bootstring, because as you said, you have to have boots in order to do that. Not everyone has boots.

 

[merbobear]

Everyone failed him, and it is sad being that it started when he was still a child. If things had gone different in his childhood, maybe his life would have turned out differently.
That being said, life deals us bad hands sometimes, and it is up to each individual to decide what they are going to do about it. He chose a life of crime, and unfortunately his life is suffering now because of it. My thought would be that he needs to be in some type of counseling instead of just being medicated. Maybe he would be better off in a halfway house or something along those lines, if he has no friends or family that are willing to take him in while he adjusts. Just throwing someone back out into the world doesn't do anyone any good if they have no support system

 

[princesspiglet]

And this, in a nutshell, is what is wrong with society today.

Since when does it "take a village" to convince someone that armed robbery is WRONG?

Stop making excuses for people and their choices. Lots of people grow up in situations that are much worse.

Gangs do not "clothe and feed kids" until they come of age. That's ridiculous.

You are very naive if you actually believe that. Yes, they do. I have two friends that were "initiated" into gangs at the age of 5. They had absentee parents and wandered the streets alone until a gang member came upon them and showed them friendship. They went to the gang members house every single day and were given clothes, food, attention, etc. Their parents either had no idea, or couldn't care less where they were. They grew up with the gang mentality and once they were 18, they were intitated as full members. They both finally escaped when they were 32 years old and have never looked back.

So yes, it most certainly does happen that way.

 

[Aisling]

I think when he was a child it was his parents fault, when he became an adult he is responsible for his own actions

I agree, that's why I hope he realizes this and has the strength not get back into a life of crime.

As a kid who raised myself I have to say everyone failed him, but mostly himself. When you grow up a kid like that EVERY SINGLE STEP matters,

The best anyone can do for someone like this is validate that things could have been better and encourage them to make the changes that are necessary to move in another direction.

There are so many kids who've been raised much worse than this guy, and they still turned out to be law-abiding and successful in life, either big or small. But not every kid has that inner wisdom or whatever it is that makes them strive to be good. They're minds are already screwed up and they believe there's no hope for them, so they act out. They see themselves as victims because they're angry, hurt, and maybe mentally ill.

I don't blame the justice system because they have a job to do and it's generally not to help, but to punish.

This guy is old enough now to know that he has choices, he's not a stupid 17 year old hurt kid anymore. But it looks like he needs help very badly.

 

[Rora]

I don't think any one person failed him - everybody did. His family, the police, his school when he was in and JAIL - everybody had an opportunity to get this kid help or rehabilitate him and nobody did it.

I should also add that he is responsible as well.

 

[kirstenb1]

Oh, my there are many that I would take under my wing if I could!

I hope you are right. I hope he will see how ds has chosen to live his life and start making some of those same choices. I really think I will try to start guiding him in the right direction.

Somebody mentioned teaching him to cook--that may be the first thing in order. He and ds came by the house one evening at supper time and I told them both to fix a plate. He just went on and on how great it was (nothing special baked chicken, roasted potatoes and green beans) and I knew he was really hungry. It just made me want to cry! So, I think I will tell ds to bring him over and I will teach him how to at least cook eggs and fry hamburgers and maybe make spaghetti! While I am doing that I can start talking about the GED program and welding.

I was just skimming over this thread and kept thinking, regardless of blame, this kid needs someone to walk him through living on your own. It reminds me of foster kids, who exit the system at 18, and are supposed to function on their own, all of a sudden. Yes he made bad choices, but the net result is the same: someone who has no idea what his next move is.

OP, you're a very kind-hearted person. I think teaching him how to cook is a great start. He probably has no idea how to set a budget, etc. All these life skills we take for granted, he has no idea.

 

[luvsJack]

I was just skimming over this thread and kept thinking, regardless of blame, this kid needs someone to walk him through living on your own. It reminds me of foster kids, who exit the system at 18, and are supposed to function on their own, all of a sudden. Yes he made bad choices, but the net result is the same: someone who has no idea what his next move is.

OP, you're a very kind-hearted person. I think teaching him how to cook is a great start. He probably has no idea how to set a budget, etc. All these life skills we take for granted, he has no idea.

Thanks. And you are right, its just like the foster kids who are put out on the world at 18. It seems like one thing our prison system NEEDS to spend money on is helping these young guys learn how to take care of themselves. I can certainly understand now why so many end up right back in jail.

 

[ols386]

I was just skimming over this thread and kept thinking, regardless of blame, this kid needs someone to walk him through living on your own. It reminds me of foster kids, who exit the system at 18, and are supposed to function on their own, all of a sudden. Yes he made bad choices, but the net result is the same: someone who has no idea what his next move is.

OP, you're a very kind-hearted person. I think teaching him how to cook is a great start. He probably has no idea how to set a budget, etc. All these life skills we take for granted, he has no idea.

I totally agree!

 

[doxdogy]

This young man is a lot like my nephew. First time he goes to jail he is 17 and come to live with us. We got him on the straight and narrow (which his parents couldn't manage to do). He joins Army, mouth overloads his butt and he gets kicked out. Back to prison for DUI and serves a couple of years. Back to live with us. Now he is doing 6 years for another DUI. His public defender tried to convince the DA he need help. I tried to talk to the DA, but he wouldn't call me.

He now realizes that his own actions but him where he is and he has no one else to blame but himself. I praying that when gets out again, he can manage to stay out. He is now ready to do AA when he is released and realizes that also needs to learn to manage his anger. His parents have basically given up on him and don't think he can stay out.

So I guess what I am saying that yes at one time his family failed him, but now he has failed himself.

 

[eliza61]

This young man is a lot like my nephew. First time he goes to jail he is 17 and come to live with us. We got him on the straight and narrow (which his parents couldn't manage to do). He joins Army, mouth overloads his butt and he gets kicked out. Back to prison for DUI and serves a couple of years. Back to live with us. Now he is doing 6 years for another DUI. His public defender tried to convince the DA he need help. I tried to talk to the DA, but he wouldn't call me.

He now realizes that his own actions but him where he is and he has no one else to blame but himself. I praying that when gets out again, he can manage to stay out. He is now ready to do AA when he is released and realizes that also needs to learn to manage his anger. His parents have basically given up on him and don't think he can stay out. So I guess what I am saying that yes at one time his family failed him, but now he has failed himself.

This is the hard part. If you have had a life time of people telling you, you are worthless, people giving up on you, how easy is it to escape that.

I challenge everyone, to think about this. If you are abadoned and abused pretty much from day one, how different does your life turn out. I do know people who survived physical and mental abuse from childhood, but I don't know anyone who was able to survive it without some sort of support system.

So when he gets out, what type of support does he have? any seriously even now, can any of us truly say they would be the same without support and love.

 

[kellyg403]

OP, I think you are a very kindhearted person too. I don't blame you or your ds for being leary. I am sure that his time in prison/jail were not spent learning how to basketweave and help old ladies across the street. A certain amount of being reluctant is o.k. in my book. One of the things he may not even know how to do is set boundaries....and this is also one of those places you can help him with.

I think at a certain time blame has to be put on the back burner. His failures can lead to success if HE wants them to. And that is where the boundaries come in. I would help him learn to cook, but the food has to be bought with HIS budget. He wants to get a GED? Help him sign up but the classes are his. Give him the life skills to succeed and it won't matter who failed who.

I do think a certain amount of right from wrong is instilled in children by the parents. But, he went to school..some was instilled there. He had friends, albeit not great ones later in life, he learned right from wrong there. Its important that he knows that he has the INNER capability to understand right from wrong. His choices reflect that little voice of intution that we all have. With his disorder, he may/may not have the ability to realize he has to stop and think and lose some of that impulsivness. He really has to mature.

Kelly

 

[marcemc]

His parents failed him as a child, but he is failing himself as an adult.
I have seen people with really bad pasts move on and make great futures for themselves. It can be done when people work at it instead of wallowing in self pity over their less than stellar childhoods.

I agree, I have a friend with a sad, hunting past but he never looked back.

He worked to support himself & paid for his education. He is 34 now & he has his own business.

He could have gotten in trouble, but he chose not to.

We are all so proud of him

 

[doxdogy]

This is the hard part. If you have had a life time of people telling you, you are worthless, people giving up on you, how easy is it to escape that.

I challenge everyone, to think about this. If you are abadoned and abused pretty much from day one, how different does your life turn out. I do know people who survived physical and mental abuse from childhood, but I don't know anyone who was able to survive it without some sort of support system.

So when he gets out, what type of support does he have? any seriously even now, can any of us truly say they would be the same without support and love.

When he is released, he will be coming back to live with us. We have already told him that he will have a home. He has always known that his Uncle and I love him and will stand by him. He was living with us the last time he was arrested for DUI. He is more like a son, then a nephew to me. I honestly can't turn my back on him and let him live on the street.

OP I am sorry I didn't mean to derail your thread. I think it is a wonderful idea to teach the young man how to cook. He needs a stable adult in his life. He needs someone to show him that he has worth as a human being.

 

[LIDisneyFan]

OP-you seem very focused on the boy's mother and things she did wrong. I would be very careful, as you interact with him now, not to share your own feelings about trying to find a man and making comments about his father, etc.

It is important not to be judgemental at this juncture - and I don't think it matters now who was at fault, or why it is important to figure out who is at fault. Unless you can let that go totally, I am not sure you will be helping him as much as you would like.

Kids with the best upbringing end up in trouble, and those with the worst can end up doing quite well.

Just MHO.

 

[a1tinkfans]

OP-you seem very focused on the boy's mother and things she did wrong. I would be very careful, as you interact with him now, not to share your own feelings about trying to find a man and making comments about his father, etc.

It is important not to be judgemental at this juncture - and I don't think it matters now who was at fault, or why it is important to figure out who is at fault. Unless you can let that go totally, I am not sure you will be helping him as much as you would like.

Kids with the best upbringing end up in trouble, and those with the worst can end up doing quite well.
I agree, especially what I bolded. I think your heart is in the right place, OP, but it is not an easy road to take for you/him. Best of Luck!

 

[luvsJack]

OP-you seem very focused on the boy's mother and things she did wrong. I would be very careful, as you interact with him now, not to share your own feelings about trying to find a man and making comments about his father, etc.

It is important not to be judgemental at this juncture - and I don't think it matters now who was at fault, or why it is important to figure out who is at fault. Unless you can let that go totally, I am not sure you will be helping him as much as you would like.

Kids with the best upbringing end up in trouble, and those with the worst can end up doing quite well.

Just MHO.

Oh, no. I don't mention any of this stuff to him. I only know where his mom is because he offered the information. We have really only talked about what is happening with him now and not a lot of that. He doesn't talk much.

I didn't really ask the question so as to say "see, its xxxx's fault that Johnny did this". Maybe more as a question of how could this be prevented in another child type of thing. Or in how many other young people in his very situation are out there right now? And how many of them will commit another crime because they don't know how else to survive?

I am not really more focused on his mom than anything else that happened to him. She didn't know he is bi-polar. And maybe she thought she was doing what was best, I don't know. Money and power are important to her and they were important to him, I think. I just know more about her than anyone else in his life.