Whitney Houston dead

[Pea-n-Me]

I wasn't disputing anything. I find it sad, they couldn't put the animosity aside... for at least one day. I feel very, very sorry for Bobbi Kristina. She just lost her mother and needs their love and support...more than ever. Instead, they're creating more drama and instability in her life.

Gotcha, thanks. I agree, I wish he hadn't left and could have kept it together for one day.

 

[SouthJersey]

Again, where do you get she didn't give an effort to get clean? She apparently recently was clean for a good stretch, she's been to rehab numerous times, she went to rehab with her daughter for goodness sakes.

Are you getting "not give a real effort to get clean?" because she didn't end up staying clean?

It's also not just learned behaviour, no. It's something with a strong genetic component, physical component and behavioural component.

Over the past week, many news outlets and articles have brought up her stretch of drug history and for being a drug user of 20 years, the efforts she made we're weak.

First off, if you have a serious and lengthy drug addiction, you don't go to out-patient therapy if you want to get clean. Where do I get she didn't give a good effort? Twenty years of drug use, no known 'clean' period asides from when she claimed to be during interviews. The media was reporting her clean up until she died, so there's pretty good odds that she hasn't been clean the entire time.

I don't care about what people will say she tried in private, but she gave no real clinical, third party attempt to get clean.

 

[SouthJersey]

I am proof that this is NOT true.

My parents are addicts. I am not...I learned how NOT to live my life from them. Not how be an addict.

Sometimes that is the way it goes, but many people choose to rise above. It's a choice...pick up the drugs or don't...And it is an excuse to say, "Well...I don't know any better! My parents did it, what did you expect???"

If Whitney had her child, put her up for adoption and she never knew who her mother was, she would not be prone to going and getting hooked on drugs because genetically her mother was on drugs. There's been no proven link to drug use, only with alcohol. Studies also show that the 'genetic factor' in addiction is passed between men to their sons, not women. I'm not a scientist, but plenty of medical journals and studies across the web and text's will verify that.

I'm not saying it's DEFINITELY because her mom did drugs, but there's good odds. For instance, a child who's dad beats their mother, is more likely to abuse his wife or be okay with witnessing a friend hitting their girlfriend. A child who grows up around a father that gambles, is more likely to have a gambling problem. Same goes for whitney and her daughter. A lot of the time, children will be repulsed by their parents addiction and it serves as a great shield for them to never fall into what their parents did, but there's never really a neutral line. It's either going to send the child into the same path or the absolute opposite way.

 

[cornflake]

If Whitney had her child, put her up for adoption and she never knew who her mother was, she would not be prone to going and getting hooked on drugs because genetically her mother was on drugs. There's been no proven link to drug use, only with alcohol. Studies also show that the 'genetic factor' in addiction is passed between men to their sons, not women. I'm not a scientist, but plenty of medical journals and studies across the web and text's will verify that.

I'm not saying it's DEFINITELY because her mom did drugs, but there's good odds. For instance, a child who's dad beats their mother, is more likely to abuse his wife or be okay with witnessing a friend hitting their girlfriend. A child who grows up around a father that gambles, is more likely to have a gambling problem. Same goes for whitney and her daughter. A lot of the time, children will be repulsed by their parents addiction and it serves as a great shield for them to never fall into what their parents did, but there's never really a neutral line. It's either going to send the child into the same path or the absolute opposite way.

Oh, please, link us to the plenty of medical journals and studies and text's [sic] that verify that addiction is passed from men to sons only.

 

[peacelover]

If Whitney had her child, put her up for adoption and she never knew who her mother was, she would not be prone to going and getting hooked on drugs because genetically her mother was on drugs. There's been no proven link to drug use, only with alcohol. Studies also show that the 'genetic factor' in addiction is passed between men to their sons, not women. I'm not a scientist, but plenty of medical journals and studies across the web and text's will verify that..

Completely untrue.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

If Whitney had her child, put her up for adoption and she never knew who her mother was, she would not be prone to going and getting hooked on drugs because genetically her mother was on drugs. There's been no proven link to drug use, only with alcohol. Studies also show that the 'genetic factor' in addiction is passed between men to their sons, not women. I'm not a scientist, but plenty of medical journals and studies across the web and text's will verify that.

People in psychological pain often self medicate with drugs and alcohol. And disorders that cause psychological pain can of course be genetic - things like anxiety, depression, bi-polar disorder, etc. People with these disorders can certainly be predisposed to abusing substances. Naturally, growing up exposed to it would seem to be a major factor, but most experts agree a combination of nature and nurture comes into play in most cases.

 

[jujube]

If Whitney had her child, put her up for adoption and she never knew who her mother was, she would not be prone to going and getting hooked on drugs because genetically her mother was on drugs. There's been no proven link to drug use, only with alcohol. Studies also show that the 'genetic factor' in addiction is passed between men to their sons, not women. I'm not a scientist, but plenty of medical journals and studies across the web and text's will verify that.

I'm not saying it's DEFINITELY because her mom did drugs, but there's good odds. For instance, a child who's dad beats their mother, is more likely to abuse his wife or be okay with witnessing a friend hitting their girlfriend. A child who grows up around a father that gambles, is more likely to have a gambling problem. Same goes for whitney and her daughter. A lot of the time, children will be repulsed by their parents addiction and it serves as a great shield for them to never fall into what their parents did, but there's never really a neutral line. It's either going to send the child into the same path or the absolute opposite way.

Bologna
People do inherit a tendency to addictive disorders.


BTW, did y'all see that her ex left the funeral because he did not like the seating arrangements. What a piece of __________!(You can fill in the blank with whatever you feel fits.) You can bet your sweet bippy that he will try to make $$$$ off her death. The family had better keep Bobbi as far away from him as possible.

 

[bumbershoot]

Its a disgrace to every fallen soldier. its a disgrace to the likes of the people in the Twin Towers, JFK among so many others.

Mourning one person doesn't take away from mourning another person. If you think it does...I just can't figure that out, because it simply does not.

Not sure if the reports are true either of him being given only 2 invites, yet he showed with 9. If that is true, then despite his feeling on the matter, I think he should have just brought himself and possibly his wife, and that is that.

Just looking at the pictures online you can see that at least 2 of the people with him were his kids. WH's stepkids. Their daughter's half-siblings.

I'm not into BB, and was barely into WH (her style of singing with jaw wobbling all over the place in order to get the tremor bugged me to NO end since I first saw her sing), but he's a famous guy going to a place where people HATE him, and gosh, I think I'd forgive him for bringing his other kids and a few people for a bit of protection.

Picture from the funeral here.

Few years old picture of his oldest kids here.

The young man on the right (of both pictures) is OBVIOUSLY the same person. The woman is almost certainly the same (and she's the "mystery" woman in other pictures, walking with BB in a parking lot). The other young man in the funeral picture really seems to be the same in the eyes (just with a few years added on, making him look more like his father) as the son in the middle of the blackcelebkids picture. I might be wrong, of course. (but I don't think so)

No, I'm more annoyed toward people all out like deeply upset over her death. It's one thing to find something sad, but people who are distraught over her death, that don't know her, is just rediculous.

Oh I'm not talking about you guys here at all or anything anyone posted here. I've seen the funeral stream myself, but the news is also showing videos of random people at vigils SOBBING. There's people all over facebook like, "Omg, I can't believe this is real. Oh my god, she's really gone =( RIP Whitney blah blah blah" and then like 14 more status' about it, like that they're deeply distraught that it's on their mind all week. That's just insane.

I guess you've never been overwhelmed by an emotion like that. When Princess Diana died, I was BEYOND distraught. 5 minutes before I found out you would NEVER have convinced me that I'd be nearly hysterical due to her death. But there I was, calling my mom at sick-and-wrong in the morning for both of us, telling her the news and SOBBING with her. I was, and still can be if I think about it too long, simply devastated by her death. I wasn't a royalist (heck, I'm almost totally Irish, HOW could I like the British royal family?????), I wasn't into England, I was barely into her celebrity! I actually sort of felt sorry for Charles, having to marry a woman when he loved another for so long, simply because his beloved was not appropriate to marry the future king. I mean, how sad would YOU be if you weren't allowed to marry the person you loved without giving up your entire life and way of Being in the universe? (especially given how much his uncle was despised for doing just that)

5 minutes before I saw the news about Diana I would not have believed my reaction.

I bet there are a lot of people out there just shocked at the feelings they are having. Just because a person hasn't met someone doesn't mean they can't have huge feelings for/about that person.


And...by the way...you are kind of saying that you want big time public recognition for the deaths of soldiers...woudln't that put people into the position you seem to hate? Caring deeply for the death of someone you've never met? And in the case of a random soldier, it's something who has never touched their lives *at all*. At least WH did some tangible things that were obvious to people, so it's actually more normal for people to feel things about her death, than for a soldier they've never ever heard of.

It would seem that Houston's family got their way in not having Bobby stay for the funeral, and that is sad as they were together for close to 20 years, and had a child together, Whitney's only child.

....Perhaps it would have been a nice experience for her to have her dad there with her while she remembered her mom, whom she was very close to.

Dang. Now you have me remembering my mom's funeral when I was 30. My dad really wanted to come, both for him and for me (and for my brother but he knew my brother doesn't like him at all). But he chose to stay away because he knew that it would cause bigger problems with my brother and stepdad and various other people...bigger problems than the good of having him there for me would be.

She's never gone to a true program, she's been into out-patient rehab what, 3 times in 20 years? I have ZERO respect for that. She never seeked true help.

Neither of us *know* what she tried and didn't try. Unless you actually lived with her, you do not know. She might have done nothing. She might have done everything and failed every time. We just don't know.

Yeah, many vets are driven to drug and alcohol use. Whitney's party and hollywood lifestyle choices led to her problems, not night terrors, sprawling to the ground when a kid in your neighborhood lights off fireworks, seeing people literally turn to peices from a .50bmg. So you can't compare soldiers turning to drugs out of the things they've seen vs. partying getting the best of her.

Oh, I think I can. Taking drugs isn't going to make a PTSD-suffering person's life any better. Thinking about it rationally would tell a person that. It's just going to make problems in real life far far worse, especially once the addiction kicks in.

That initial choice is the judgeable one, in my opinion. (or a few choices...until the addiction kicks in) After that, it's physical addiction, and some people are better at kicking that than others. My half brother got hit hard with what was supposedly H1N1 a year ago. They couldn't get his oxygen saturation up enough, so they knocked him out and put him on a respirator for nearly a month. The whole family (they all live together) had "the flu", and he tested positive with the quick test for H1N1 (they didn't check anyone else's type of flu, interestingly enough). [also, I had had pretty much the exact same symptoms that he did, approx a week before they hit him (we live nowhere near each other), but I finished a nebulizer treatment but he did not, he flipped out once the albuterol hit him (though he says it was the steroid, but what does he know, he's never taken albuterol and I HAVE) and left in a mad, angry, nearly abusive rage, and by the next day he was barely breathing while I was starting along the way to healing.] He's also the one in the family with the BIG cigarette addiction.

So he was out for nearly a month. No insurance. My dad had to apply for California's medi-whatsis for my brother during that time. Big bills. Big scare.

Not even a month after he was off the respirator and out of the hospital, he was smoking again.

Addiction SUCKS.

If he had shown up alone or with his plus2 that were invited none of the other crap would have happened. She is 18 and can sit with her father if she pleases.

Gosh, that's not true in reality. I was 30 when my mom died and didn't feel strong enough, on the awful awful day of my mother's funeral, to deal with the "storm" that would have happened if I'd let my dad come to her funeral! Let alone sit with me, with my stepdad (who hates him) and my brother (who pretends he doesn't exist).

A family dynamic like theirs does NOT create an environment that makes it easy and simple to have a new adult go against every single relative of her mother's, to let her dad sit with her.

 

[tinatark]

I watched some of the coverage today, listened to some of it livestream.

It was a beautiful service, and although it was really long, I expected that - it's a cultural thing.

A couple of observations - maybe I was just being sensitive to it, but it seemed like so much of the sympathies were extended to Whitney's mom - I remember when her sister/sister in law spoke, she expressed what a wonderful daughter, sister, mother W was - in that order. Sorry, but BK trumped everyone else today.

As far as Bobby Brown, regardless of her family's feelings about him, he and Whitney were in a good place (look up pics of them and BK at dinner from the beginning of Feb) and he should have been with his daughter. I understand his invitation was "+2" - he has 4 or 5 children, BK's half siblings and a fiancee'. His statement was that security moved his group around several times before he finally got fed up and left.

About her being buried next to her dad - they were embroiled in a huge lawsuit ($100M) when he died and she didn't attend his funeral, she has also been in a lawsuit with his wife over insurance proceeds/home deed. Not so sure she would have wanted to be next to him forever! Unless, maybe it's somehow a final dig at his wife - in her lawsuit WH said she was a household employee 40 years younger than him who married him shortly after he and W's mother divorced.

 

[Queen2PrincessG]

Let's not forget that the initial report is that her body was clean of drugs just like Amy Winehouse. So more than likely her body just gave out from the years and back and forth of using and not using. The heart can only take so much.

As for drug use i think most people who are users are self medicating for what ever disorder they have whether it is depression, anxiety, a personality disorder whatever it is. They need help.

 

[cornflake]

Let's not forget that the initial report is that her body was clean of drugs just like Amy Winehouse. So more than likely her body just gave out from the years and back and forth of using and not using. The heart can only take so much.

There has been no such report at all. No toxicology has come back, nevermind been released.

 

[Tiger926]

Yeah I mean, it's ashame. What do you expect though? Some parent, huh? Stay on drugs infront of your kid for the entire time she's been alive, great parent. If it wasn't for entourage, managers, family and fans, she would've died long ago if she was an average person. That's the part that bothers me the most. It's one thing if she failed fighting her addiction, but how do you not give a real effort to get clean?

Her daughter has a problem now because of her mother's inability to seek help for herself, her career, and most importantly her daughter. It's a learned behavior. Damn, my mom does drugs and drinks heavily, and she has it all!

How do you know she didn't give a real good effort to get clean? She performed for years without anyone knowing she was addicted to drugs, so with that kind of money, they have the ability to hide and manipulate info, so since none of us were there, we don't know what kind of drug therapy she tried.

Again, where do you get she didn't give an effort to get clean? She apparently recently was clean for a good stretch, she's been to rehab numerous times, she went to rehab with her daughter for goodness sakes.

Are you getting "not give a real effort to get clean?" because she didn't end up staying clean?

It's also not just learned behaviour, no. It's something with a strong genetic component, physical component and behavioural component.

Over the past week, many news outlets and articles have brought up her stretch of drug history and for being a drug user of 20 years, the efforts she made we're weak.

First off, if you have a serious and lengthy drug addiction, you don't go to out-patient therapy if you want to get clean. Where do I get she didn't give a good effort? Twenty years of drug use, no known 'clean' period asides from when she claimed to be during interviews. The media was reporting her clean up until she died, so there's pretty good odds that she hasn't been clean the entire time.

I don't care about what people will say she tried in private, but she gave no real clinical, third party attempt to get clean.

Again, how do you know what she did? Where you there?

If Whitney had her child, put her up for adoption and she never knew who her mother was, she would not be prone to going and getting hooked on drugs because genetically her mother was on drugs. There's been no proven link to drug use, only with alcohol. Studies also show that the 'genetic factor' in addiction is passed between men to their sons, not women. I'm not a scientist, but plenty of medical journals and studies across the web and text's will verify that.

I'm not saying it's DEFINITELY because her mom did drugs, but there's good odds. For instance, a child who's dad beats their mother, is more likely to abuse his wife or be okay with witnessing a friend hitting their girlfriend. A child who grows up around a father that gambles, is more likely to have a gambling problem. Same goes for whitney and her daughter. A lot of the time, children will be repulsed by their parents addiction and it serves as a great shield for them to never fall into what their parents did, but there's never really a neutral line. It's either going to send the child into the same path or the absolute opposite way.

I am not sure what you have been reading, but this is absolutely incorrect. And by the way, alcohol is a drug too.

You seem to be very focused on blaming the parents for a child's drug addiction. How about those children who become addicted to substances whose parents are not, nor have ever used drugs? I am all about good and positive role models, but I have some family members who had addicts for parents who did not ever ingest any substances, and then I have some who have parents who are not addicts, yet they are addicts themselves.

Addiction is highly complex, so you may want to do some more research, as you are highly misinformed.

People in psychological pain often self medicate with drugs and alcohol. And disorders that cause psychological pain can of course be genetic - things like anxiety, depression, bi-polar disorder, etc. People with these disorders can certainly be predisposed to abusing substances. Naturally, growing up exposed to it would seem to be a major factor, but most experts agree a combination of nature and nurture comes into play in most cases.

I watched some of the coverage today, listened to some of it livestream.

It was a beautiful service, and although it was really long, I expected that - it's a cultural thing.

A couple of observations - maybe I was just being sensitive to it, but it seemed like so much of the sympathies were extended to Whitney's mom - I remember when her sister/sister in law spoke, she expressed what a wonderful daughter, sister, mother W was - in that order. Sorry, but BK trumped everyone else today.

As far as Bobby Brown, regardless of her family's feelings about him, he and Whitney were in a good place (look up pics of them and BK at dinner from the beginning of Feb) and he should have been with his daughter. I understand his invitation was "+2" - he has 4 or 5 children, BK's half siblings and a fiancee'. His statement was that security moved his group around several times before he finally got fed up and left.

About her being buried next to her dad - they were embroiled in a huge lawsuit ($100M) when he died and she didn't attend his funeral, she has also been in a lawsuit with his wife over insurance proceeds/home deed. Not so sure she would have wanted to be next to him forever! Unless, maybe it's somehow a final dig at his wife - in her lawsuit WH said she was a household employee 40 years younger than him who married him shortly after he and W's mother divorced.

Yes, Cissy is being given a lot of attention as Whitney's mom, as they were very close, and it has been reported that she staged several interventions with armed security, no less, over the years to help get Whitney clean. She is the next of kin, as is Bobby Christina, so I agree that they didn't give enough value to the mother daughter relationship between Whitney and her own child.

Bobby Brown was more than likely hoping to get his family in to the service, regardless of what the invitation said. Those were Whitney's step children (the older ones), so why did family leave them out? Making a statement, and it seemed to work, as Bobby left the service. As I said before, must have been very difficult to accommodate all needs, but surely some of the famous celebrities who were there, who didn't know Whitney as well, could have been left out in place of family? Seems Whitney's family did not want it this way? On the other hand, he should have abided by the invite, so as not to cause a scene. Wonder what Whitney herself would have wanted? But, as we all know, the service is for the living, and that is apparently the direction it took yesterday.

Interesting about her dad, as I was wondering the same thing? Thought I remembered them having some issues as well. Wonder if Whitney had will with funeral and burial arrangements in it? I don't think so, as I read about some of the family saying she should have the service and burial in Atlanta, as that is where Whitney loved best.

I think Cissy is making a lot of decisions, but is overcome with grief. Are they the right ones? That is for the family to work through, and hopefully, there won't be any negative repercussions based on how the service and burial has progressed. I would hope that Bobby Christina got some input, but I am not so sure...?

Tiger

 

[Queen2PrincessG]

There has been no such report at all. No toxicology has come back, nevermind been released.

I believe there was. I believe I saw on the new that Coronors office speak and say that all the speculations of her drowning and etc are false and the only thing he can say was that there weren't any drugs found int the initial examination. The Death Certificate is still blank though.

 

[Tiger926]

I believe there was. I believe I saw on the new that Coronors office speak and say that all the speculations of her drowning and etc are false and the only thing he can say was that there weren't any drugs found int the initial examination. The Death Certificate is still blank though.

No, there was not.

The initial autopsy could not find a specific cause of death, so cause is listed as deferred. This means that based on the initial autopsy, Coroner cannot make any determination on what the true cause of death is.

This means that the Coroner's office is now charged to investigate in order to list an official cause of death.

There is a leak somewhere, and I saw the Coroner speak multiple times, and said that he did not speak to the family about specifics, but that the Police did.

The Coroner and Police are two different groups of people, and the only one certified to legally ascertain cause of death is the Coroner's office.

The Coroner has been very upfront about the fact that he will not give any specifics or assumptions as they work with science and investigation, all interviews, tests, reports, etc. must be complete before an official cause of death will be listed.

An official cause of death will not become available for weeks as they are waiting on lab results, as well as conducting investigations into her medical history, doctors, drug usage, health, etc.

Tiger

 

[cornflake]

I believe there was. I believe I saw on the new that Coronors office speak and say that all the speculations of her drowning and etc are false and the only thing he can say was that there weren't any drugs found int the initial examination. The Death Certificate is still blank though.

No, the coroner hasn't made any ruling as to the cause of death, it's listed as inconclusive thus far.
Cops said there was no evidence of foul play.

The no drowning thing came from a gossip site, but even if that is the case, doesn't mean anything as to the drugs really.

Same as if there were no drugs found - though I haven't seen that one anyplace, not even on the trashy gossip site. Just because there weren't pills found in her stomach wouldn't mean she wasn't on drugs (and alcohol, though it seems fairly obvious she'd been drinking).

 

[crashbb]

Studies also show that the 'genetic factor' in addiction is passed between men to their sons, not women. I'm not a scientist, but plenty of medical journals and studies across the web and text's will verify that.

Ummm....no. The only diseases that are passed only from father to son are Y-linked conditions. There are VERY few of these since there are very few genes on the Y chromosome. The list includes things like male infertility and colour blindness (though this version of colour blindness is much less common than the X-linked version passed from mother to son). The list does not include any form of addiction (not saying that there couldn't be something there, but it has never been found).

The nature versus nurture debate in addictions is one that is hotly contested (as it is in many conditions), with most arguing that it is a bit of both and that they are difficult to detangle. Even if I child is removed from the house of addicted parents, they are often raised in foster care which, often, does provide a stable environment and is a risk factor for addiction - so addiction in these children does not prove that there is a genetic link.

Oh - and I am a scientist (genetic epidemiologist), although addictions research is not my primary area.

 

[SouthJersey]

Oh, please, link us to the plenty of medical journals and studies and text's [sic] that verify that addiction is passed from men to sons only.

Sorry sorry, STRONGER genetic factors than women, not only**

Virginia Adult Twin Study of Psychiatric and Substance Use Disorders - Carol A. Prescott, Ph.D.

Separate study of NRXN3 that affects men only, go read. The results revealed two intriguing and somewhat mysterious links between NRXN3 and behavior. In men, but not women, having a certain variant of NRXN3 increased the risk of problems with alcohol by 2.5 times.

genetic links between impulsivity, addiction - Drug and Alcohol Dependence, was authored by UNL's Stoltenberg; Melissa Lehmann of Black Hills State University; Christa C. Christ of UNL; and Samantha Hersrud and Gareth Davies of the University of South Dakota School of Medicine.

Etc etc

 

[TLSnell1981]

BTW, did y'all see that her ex left the funeral because he did not like the seating arrangements. What a piece of __________!(You can fill in the blank with whatever you feel fits.) You can bet your sweet bippy that he will try to make $$$$ off her death. The family had better keep Bobbi as far away from him as possible.

There's more to this story and it's been discussed on this thread. Things aren't always...what they appear to be. I'm not too keen on Whitney's family either. Their behavior was less than stellar.

 

[tinatark]

No reports of "illegal" drugs - but several prescription bottles were at the scene. Maybe she overcame her illegal drug habit, but, sadly replaced it with legal ones - I remember hearing there was Xanax and some other "strong" drug in the room. Midol, too.

Celebs think they are not abusing drugs when they're prescribed. Elvis Presley (I actually read he was admitted to a Memphis hospital for detox back before drug rehab even existed) - didn't drink or do any illegal drugs - but had plenty of legally prescribed ones... Heath Ledger... Anna Nicole Smith... Michael Jackson.

I also agree that Whitney would have preferred to be buried in Atlanta. Just from an outsider looking in - I think that's where she made her home for many years. As far as I've heard, she hasn't been buried yet so that may still happen. I hope they're really considering her/BK's wishes - the funeral wasn't perfect, and they can take a little time to make sure the burial spot is. Another consideration is that the pics of her dad's grave look like it's a smallish cemetery - a larger one with guards, etc. would be able to handle the crowds I'm sure will be coming for the next several years. BTW... I read somewhere the cemetery there is where John List's family (he murdered them, then went on the run for almost 20 years) is buried.

I really expected a grand scale funeral, similar to James Brown's. I'm glad it didn't happen, as the funeral was great, but I think something huge and over the top would have been appropriate, too.