Which do you like less: FP+ or ADR?

[JimmyV]

Everything you said is what YOU liked best, what worked best for YOU. I was focusing on answering the question of why they are the way they are. So you would prefer shorter, I get that. But they are longer, because it is smarter to make them so. Despite the fact that you like them less, it gets people to book trips at 180 days. Hopefully you can see the value in Disney getting guests to book trips at 180 days, 2 months before they typically release their hotel specials.

1. Go back and read the topic question of this thread. It says: "Which do YOU like better? (emphasis added) I'm not going to apologize for answering the question.

2. I don't think you can fairly tell us why things are why they are without having lived the past. You say that it is "smarter" to do things the way they are done now. But you skirt around the issue as to whether this is "smarter" for the guest or for the company. When I suggest that it is done for the sole benefit of the company, you accuse me of snide cynicism, which suggests that you must also believe that things exist the way they do for the mutual benefit of both the company and the guest. As a prior user of the old systems, (and with the support of several others on this thread who also harken back to the old days, see posts #s 5, 14, 16, 18 and 20), I can tell you that 30 day and 60 day dinner reservations were "smarter" for the guest. It helps to have concrete operational hours when deciding which parks to go to each day, and it helps to know which park one is going to each day before deciding where to have dinner. Making ADRs in the blind cannot be smarter for the guest.

 

[Susiequsie60]

I totally understand that Disney does just about everything they do for the benefit of Disney. And I have no problem with that. They're a business. More power to them. But in all honesty, I think sometimes there really doesn't seem to be a big enough benefit to justify it - at least as far as Customer Service is concerned. And I know that many many many people love ADRs. But I think both sides could be satisfied with a little tweaking.

I'm going to stay away from FP+ for a second. Let's talk ADRs. Are people saying that if WDW didn't do 180 day ADRs it would really hurt them? How about ADRs ONLY for the more popular places that routinely book very quickly? And I don't buy that EVERY TS restaurant is that popular. Maybe pick the top 10 TS restaurants, and make them require ADRs. I understand that SciFi is popular, but is it that popular that going on a low crowd day at 2:30 in the afternoon should require a 1 hour wait because we don't have ADRs? That just doesn't make sense to me. And I'll gladly admit that I don't know that much about the restaurant business. However . . .

What I do know about is the concept that people WANT things they are harder to get! It's a pretty well-known marketing strategy. Isn't it possible that WDW does the whole ADR thing just to get people to commit in advance and then be charged (even if it is only $10) if they don't cancel or don't show? That's sort of stinky.

Sorry. In my opinion, that's not a great way to do it.

But hey - I'm a big Disney fan. Been many times over the past 25 years or so. And will continue to go. I just don't like the ADR system.

 

[Susiequsie60]

Come on guys. I really am interested in hearing other people's OPINIONS. No one is right or wrong here! Let's all play nice in the sandbox. Please.

 

[Candleshoe]

My doctor has advised me against getting into any more FP+ discussions so I will comment on ADRs.

I personally do not mind ADRs but I do wish the window to make ADRs was reduced from 180 to 30 to 60 days. I know that when I make ADRs 180 days out, I always end up changing at least two of those reservations before I leave. As new options open up or other plans change over the course of 6 months. I think with a shorter window, I would be able to plan more accurately.

I don't understand people who don't accept the ADR system at all. I compare the resteraunts at Disney to the most popular eatery in most big cities. To expect to hop in there on a Friday or Saturday night without a reservation is just naive. And for some places, you have to make a reservation way in advance, albeit usually not 180 days out.

This is my reasoning as well.

I would NOT like to see the window for both FPs and ADRs open at the same time though. Ouch!

 

[AC7179]

I don't mind one more than the other, but TOGETHER they are awful.

I wanted to eat at 50s Prime Time on our DHS day. Trying to figure out my fast pass times, show times, how long the shows are going to last and then knowing I'd be financially penalized if I couldn't make the ADR, I just said forget it. It's unfortunate.

 

[Susiequsie60]

My doctor has advised me against getting into any more FP+ discussions so I will comment on ADRs.

I personally do not mind ADRs but I do wish the window to make ADRs was reduced from 180 to 30 to 60 days. I know that when I make ADRs 180 days out, I always end up changing at least two of those reservations before I leave. As new options open up or other plans change over the course of 6 months. I think with a shorter window, I would be able to plan more accurately.

I don't understand people who don't accept the ADR system at all. I compare the resteraunts at Disney to the most popular eatery in most big cities. To expect to hop in there on a Friday or Saturday night without a reservation is just naive. And for some places, you have to make a reservation way in advance, albeit usually not 180 days out.

Hahaha - first of all, I love your opening line.

And your last paragraph really does relate to exactly how I feel: Needless to say, I would never make a dining reservation at any restaurant that needs to be made even 30 days in advance. I'm willing to admit that it's probably more of a thing with "me" on that point.

However, I'm going to stick by my idea of not having ALL restaurants require ADRs - or at least not 180 days out. Wouldn't it stink if all restaurants in that big city required reservations every single night?

 

[JimmyV]

I don't understand people who don't accept the ADR system at all. I compare the resteraunts at Disney to the most popular eatery in most big cities. To expect to hop in there on a Friday or Saturday night without a reservation is just naive. And for some places, you have to make a reservation way in advance, albeit usually not 180 days out.

It's the "albeit" that makes the difference. No other popular restaurant that I know of has a 180 day window. 60 is the longest that I can think of, with 30 being fairly typical. There is no real reason why Be Our Guest has to have a longer window than the French Laundry. Disney consulted with Thomas Keller when it made Ratatouille. Perhaps they should consult with him on reservation systems.

 

[eyehartdisney]

I'd prefer they just make the ADR and the FP+ system at the same booking windows, so that there is less of a stampede at midnight to get the thing you want.

 

[Candleshoe]

I'd prefer they just make the ADR and the FP+ system at the same booking windows, so that there is less of a stampede at midnight to get the thing you want.

There would just end up being a lot of angry spouses who get roped into taking care of one set while the planner takes care of the other.

 

[mcd2745]

Conceptually, neither bother me. What I would change if I were Chief Mouse, would be the booking windows. I would open up ADRs at 60 days and FP+ at 7 days. There is nothing in the natural order of things that says that 180 (+10) and 60 are the "right" numbers. PS used to be 30 days. Then it went to 60 days. And it functioned just fine under both approaches. Why the need to go all the way out to 180? There is nothing in the mechanics of the system that requires such a huge window. Same for FP+. FP- was "day of". FP+ can be 7 days. They didn't move the date out to 60 to help the guest. It was done to help Disney. They want people "locked in". I know that this is spitting into the wind, but every once in a while, it would be nice to see Disney do something for the benefit of the guest instead of for the benefit of the company.

I agree in that I don't really have a problem with either other than the booking windows. However, my thoughts on those windows would be, for on-site guests, 45 days for ADRs (to coincide with the package PIF date) and then 30 days for FP+ (allowing you to have some time to formulate a plan for your FP+'s around your ADRs). For off-site guests, 15 days for both.

 

[MrInfinity]

Let's talk ADRs. Are people saying that if WDW didn't do 180 day ADRs it would really hurt them?

Hey I booked my last two trips at 6 months specifically because I wanted to get CRT one year and then BOG the next. So for our family, the 180-day ADR has DEFINITELY led to us booking at around 2 weeks prior to 180. If the ADR was 90- we'd probly not have booked at 180. There is a definite benefit to Disney to having people book 6 months ahead.

How about ADRs ONLY for the more popular places that routinely book very quickly?

That's possible, but unnecessarily complicated. For the less popular restaurants, you don't have to book at 180 anyways. It's just an option if you want to.

What I do know about is the concept that people WANT things they are harder to get!

Yep. Disney has mastered making something and selling it as gold. I mean they can slap a Frozen label on an ice cube and sell it for big money! By opening a new restaurant, they can get ppl to book rooms at rack rate just by opening up the ADRs knowing there will be intense pressure to get into BOG.

And then... they offered BOG Lunch Passes for hotel guests. Again leveraging their new restaurant to drive hotel sales.

It's a pretty well-known marketing strategy. Isn't it possible that WDW does the whole ADR thing just to get people to commit in advance and then be charged (even if it is only $10) if they don't cancel or don't show?

Yep. It's to get ppl to commit. I don't think the no-show is a significant income to Disney. I think that is purely to discourage the prior practice of booking 10 restaurants in a day then picking which one to go to and abandoning the others. Or booking a restaurant at multiple parks.

 

[mylittlebuttercup]

I'm really curious. I'm also thinking I'm in the minority on this. I absolutely HATE the entire ADR system. Other than when my kids were young, and we wanted to do the HoopDeeDoo Review, I've never made an advance reservation. There is no way I can commit to where and when I want to eat that far in advance. Just not happening for me.

FP+ - we did pretty well with it last year when we went to WDW. Personally, I'd prefer the old system of FP's, but I really don't have too many complaints about this. I am a very big planner, so deciding which park I want to be in on a particular day isn't a big deal at all. The fact that we visit during less busy times probably helps too. The bottom line is that we're going to want to do most of the big name rides/attractions at some point during our trip. When we do them isn't as important to me.

Eating meals, however, is a different story. I'm really curious how folks have no problem picking restaurants sooooooo far in advance to eat at every day they're there. Six months? To me that impossible. And picking an exact time? That makes it even harder.

ADR's are actually my least favorite thing about WDW. It's really more the fact that it's virtually impossible to walk in to almost ANY TS restaurant at any time without a reservation. Doesn't matter if there are lots of empty tables. Very often they won't seat you or will make you wait a ridiculous amount of time. An example: last year we walked in to ScFi at about 2:30 pm and still had to wait almost an hour. When we were seated there were other empty tables.

Because it's just 2 of us, both adults, winging all of our meals isn't that big a deal. And with a little patience we were able to eat just about everywhere we wanted to last year - although some were not such great times. But at least we weren't eating pizza when we felt like we were actually craving burgers!

With all of the types and actual restaurant choices available, I just don't quite understand why WDW has to use this system.

Remember: Everything above is just MY opinion. Please don't scold me for it.

Truly I don't mind either; they both worked out well for us on our last trip. If I didn't have a toddler and wanted to ride a lot of headliners like we used to, I might have said Fastpass+ because we used to ride headliners multiple times in a day using the old Fastpass system, and you can't do that with Fastpass+. But with a little one, that doesn't bother me at all, so I like them both.

 

[jenrose66]

I'm really curious. I'm also thinking I'm in the minority on this. I absolutely HATE the entire ADR system. Other than when my kids were young, and we wanted to do the HoopDeeDoo Review, I've never made an advance reservation. There is no way I can commit to where and when I want to eat that far in advance. Just not happening for me.

FP+ - we did pretty well with it last year when we went to WDW. Personally, I'd prefer the old system of FP's, but I really don't have too many complaints about this. I am a very big planner, so deciding which park I want to be in on a particular day isn't a big deal at all. The fact that we visit during less busy times probably helps too. The bottom line is that we're going to want to do most of the big name rides/attractions at some point during our trip. When we do them isn't as important to me.

Eating meals, however, is a different story. I'm really curious how folks have no problem picking restaurants sooooooo far in advance to eat at every day they're there. Six months? To me that impossible. And picking an exact time? That makes it even harder.

ADR's are actually my least favorite thing about WDW. It's really more the fact that it's virtually impossible to walk in to almost ANY TS restaurant at any time without a reservation. Doesn't matter if there are lots of empty tables. Very often they won't seat you or will make you wait a ridiculous amount of time. An example: last year we walked in to ScFi at about 2:30 pm and still had to wait almost an hour. When we were seated there were other empty tables.

Because it's just 2 of us, both adults, winging all of our meals isn't that big a deal. And with a little patience we were able to eat just about everywhere we wanted to last year - although some were not such great times. But at least we weren't eating pizza when we felt like we were actually craving burgers!

With all of the types and actual restaurant choices available, I just don't quite understand why WDW has to use this system.

Remember: Everything above is just MY opinion. Please don't scold me for it.

I agree with you 100%! I think what annoys me most is the $10 cancel fee per person. I am always traveling with small kids and plans change. I don't even bother with ADR's anymore, I just eat QS because the 24 hour cancel rule is too restrictive. I would cancel and move my ADR's around like you can with FP+, but now with the CC issue that isn't possible anymore.

 

[IWannaBuildASnowman]

I don't mind either ADRs or FP+. Both things, I used to despise. I hated planning that far in advance. But ultimately, I drank the kool-aid and now I appreciate the planning. It's definitely a good thing when you have little kids and you know they're going to need to eat at X time, and better than wandering around from restaurant to restaurant trying to decide what to eat, not getting in, etc. But yes, it does destroy spontaneity - especially with the 24 hour cancellation policy.

 

[maxiesmom]

I don't have a problem with either system. Even with the ADR fee in place I have had no problem doing walk ups at various restaurants. Even with a party of 6 guests.

There were 3 of us in October and we were able to walk up to Via Nappoli, which is always booked ahead of time. I was also able to get an ADR only a few hours ahead for the Liberty Tree Tavern. The MDE app is great for that!

I also have no problem with FP+. It has made my trips much easier--no running to Ride X at rope drop to get a FP. No walking back and forth thru the parks to first pull a FP(IF the posted time works with the rest of my day) and then walking back to the ride to ride it.

Sorry OP, but I love both FP+ and the ADR fee. They have made my vacation less stressful.

 

[Dis703]

I like both of them, but ADRs 6 months out is a bit much as we don't always plan our trips that far in advance. But I don't really mind stalking the sites if need be and we always get what we want.

As for how we choose we keep the same mealtimes as we keep at home for the most part for the kids. We use crowd calendars mostly to pick our days. Always avoid MK on weekends anyhow and go from there.

We plan one TS each day because it's hard for my kids to find QS meals they can eat and it doesn't really matter to me what we eat which day. In the old days we never did TS because we would try to just pop into a restaurant and they rarely had availability. So now we never go without ADRs to be sure that doesn't happen with the kids.

We've moved things around here and there on our trips and never had an issue finding another alternative but we prefer to have them in place and minimize our wait times.

 

[minnie mum]

Not a fan of FP+, but ADRs have never bothered me. I make them at 180+ days because I've already planned my park days, and doing the ADRs is just one more thing I can do and then forget about. No big deal. I'm not planning the Last Supper here. Its just a meal. If I can't get what I want (and that's rare) I book something else. There is NO RESTAURANT in WDW that is so special that I will waste my time haunting the site for a cancelation. Find a place that has a menu we like. Book it. Done. Now I don't have to wonder where I'll be eating that day, or have to wander around hoping for a walkup.

 

[Laketravis]

Conceptually, neither bother me. What I would change if I were Chief Mouse, would be the booking windows. I would open up ADRs at 60 days and FP+ at 7 days. There is nothing in the natural order of things that says that 180 (+10) and 60 are the "right" numbers. PS used to be 30 days. Then it went to 60 days. And it functioned just fine under both approaches. Why the need to go all the way out to 180? There is nothing in the mechanics of the system that requires such a huge window. Same for FP+. FP- was "day of". FP+ can be 7 days. They didn't move the date out to 60 to help the guest. It was done to help Disney. They want people "locked in". I know that this is spitting into the wind, but every once in a while, it would be nice to see Disney do something for the benefit of the guest instead of for the benefit of the company.

Those are very interesting points for which I have two beliefs heavily based on Disney's ongoing and long-term strategic initiative to control and optimize labor costs (which is a separate discussion, please):

ADR's: From what I've been told, the benefits to a restaurant of offering table reservations in advance increase in proportion to the length of the reservation window provided. This would include budgeting, forecasting, materials ordering, staffing, and sufficient lead time to plan promotions for periods of low demand indicated by reservation count. For a global silo like WDW, the ability to forecast demand six months out based on ADR's is a huge benefit.

FP: The first question that comes to mind is why isn't it the same 180 day window as ADR's? Surely, WDW would derive some of the same forecasting benefits they do with ADR's by knowing what parks people planned to be in and staffing accordingly or offering some sort of incentive to divert and distribute crowds among lesser utilized parks and resources? I think the answer to this one is the marketing heads won out over operations. I think they pointed out that offering the ability to reserve a seat on a theme park ride 6 months in advance could have unintended consequences such as ridicule and questions about the need to do so in the first place. No, guys, let's keep that window at a shorter duration so we can promote it rather then defend it yet long enough to still derive some operational benefit from it. How about 60 days?

 

[JimmyV]

ADR's: From what I've been told, the benefits to a restaurant of offering table reservations in advance increase in proportion to the length of the reservation window provided. This would include budgeting, forecasting, materials ordering, staffing, and sufficient lead time to plan promotions for periods of low demand indicated by reservation count. For a global silo like WDW, the ability to forecast demand six months out based on ADR's is a huge benefit.

When it comes to restaurants, WDW doesn't really follow any normal model. While a typical restaurant would benefit from a long forecasting window, WDW knows that 'Ohana is going to be fully booked on 2/9. It may not know the names of those guests. But it knows that it will be full and therefore derives no extra benefit in terms of staffing, budgeting and ordering. It's going to be "all hands on deck" with maximum staffing and maximum inventory. This is why places like the French Laundry have 60 day windows. They know that they are going to be overbooked with a waiting list on June 3. They don't need a 180 day window to help them there. A more "mom and pop" establishment would love to know how many covers there will by on a Tuesday in April. Disney knows.

 

[maryj11]

I love the planning so I like doing both. Planning gets me in the Disney mood and helps with the waiting for our vacation to finally get here.