Where should my kid go? Help :(

[MrsPete]

I'm coming in late but --as a teacher and a parent -- I have lots of thoughts on this subject:

- Whatever decision you make, consider it a one-year choice. My husband and I started our oldest in a religious private school largely because it allowed us to have our younger child in daycare in the same facility ... where we lived, where we worked, we needed that one drop off /one pick-up. That extra bit of family time was well worth it.
- Our kids both had THE ABSOLUTE BEST kindergarten teacher. Seriously, I can still see her influence on them as adults, but every year we reconsidered and asked ourselves, "What are we getting from this deal? Is this the best option available to us now?"
- Parents today have more, more, more educational options available -- but you've gotta do your homework because some of those options are shiny on the outside but have little substance. Charter schools, I'm looking at you. But my friend who teaches at an Early College High School says, "If you've seen one Early College, you've seen one Early College -- they are all different."
- Consider that grades don't matter AT ALL in elementary school. What does matter is how your son views himself as a student. He will come out of elementary school with a firm idea of whether he's a good reader compared to his peers, whether he likes math, whether he's a well-behaved student or not. His own opinion of himself is what matters most.
- Look into just how much testing your school system actually has -- be sure you're not reacting to what used to be true. In my state, testing has been vastly reduced: We now have only three end-of-course tests for three specific classes, all students take the ACT as juniors, and our ESL students take some specific tests connected to funding for their programs. That's it.
- When I was a student, I LOVED taking state tests. Why? They were super easy, and I loved the pat-on-the-back of seeing 95th + percentile on grade sheet. Like I said above, what matters about grades is how your son feels about himself as a student. Seeing that I was doing better than 95% of the students in my state made me feel good about myself.
- Middle school is the real problem. Middle school philosophy is just screwed up, and it's where we "lose" a lot of our students.
- I was a gifted student, and I ABSOLUTELY LOVED my pull-out class. It felt like games to me, and I loved being in that small group doing fun things. Being pulled out for something special absolutely solidified my view of myself as "a better student than most".
- My daughters had "more" in their gifted classes. I remember they did a lesson on architecture and walked through the historic area in town looking for this and that features. I remember they did a lesson on etiquette and were required to tip when they went out to a restaurant. Lessons on inventors, videos made, working with younger students on reading ... this was public school, by the way.
- Having said that, I was never, ever bored in my regular classroom, and I never, ever misbehaved out of boredom. I think people use this as an excuse and overlook the real problem: squirmy kids who are prone to misbehave.
- I did once try to get out of doing my work in my regular classroom: It was 4th grade, and I understood how to do long division, but I didn't like it -- so I just wrote down the appropriate number of digits and hurried on to read my book! I was winning at life! But my teacher and my mother figured out I was missing all the homework answers but scoring 100 on my tests. The jig was up. This was near the end of the school year, and my evil mother borrowed a math book for the summer -- that whole summer I awoke to that math book at the kitchen table. I was required to complete X number of pages before I was allowed to eat or play -- even the pages I'd legitimately done. I learned my lesson and never looked for shortcuts again.
- During Covid my mom caught my nephew in a similar situation: He'd go into his room, close the door and "do his school work", only he wasn't doing his school work. He was just taking the tests (and acing them) but he wasn't doing the homework ... so his average was bad. Grandma figured this out, and nephew's parents were not best pleased. Nephew was made to sit at the kitchen table and do alllll that homework, even though he'd already passed the tests.
- In part I always behaved because of my parents' rule: Whatever you get at school, you get two at home. Praised at school? Double at home. Punished at school? Okay, that was mostly my brothers, but double at home.
- Your son has a late birthday, so he's young for his grade? Ugh. My October-born grandson will be starting school "late". In our state kids don't have to start K until age seven (which is ridiculously old). Would you believe some parents hold their kids back in hopes that they'll be the physically largest /will excel in sports? True. Anyway ... kids with late fall birthdays do kinda have it rough: They either must be the oldest or the youngest in the class. Teachers will universally say, "Wait a year", and my daughter's already said she's doing that with my grandson ... so he will be one of the oldest, one of the tallest, the first to get his driver's license, etc. And he will go into K better prepared, a little more mature.
- If you don't think your son is ready to go into K, you could keep him in pre-K another year. Move schools, and he won't even know it's happened.
- Don't forget that you can provide plenty of enrichment at home. Museum visits, lots of books, games, family projects, music lessons.
- Whatever you choose, keep an eye on what's going on in school. So much comes down to your individual teacher. I don't remember this, but my mom tells a story about me coming home from 2nd grade crying ... it was library day, and the teacher had forbidden me to check out a book. Of course my mom asked me, "Did you lose last week's book? Fail to return it?" No, no. Because I was so upset, she called, and the teacher said, "Well, her reading is so advanced. I thought I'd keep her away from books until the others can catch up." My mother went through the roof and told the teacher that 1) If I were ever denied a book again, she would report it to the principal. 2) Every time the teacher denied me a book, my mother would take me to the public library and get me three. Go, Mom. The real upshot: The teacher was my mom's cousin.
- Remember that gifted ability, good study habits and motivation are three different measures. I just retired from teaching high school, and one of the things I hate-hate-hate is a kid with loads of ability who chooses to take general-level classes because he knows he won't have to do much to pass the class -- he knows he will be able to skip the homework and still ace the tests. I'm talking about the kid who belongs in an Honors or AP class but who chooses to take the easy route. To keep your child from becoming this lazy-monster, you must emphasize that the journey is important, that every assignment must be completed, that he is not "above" work that's easy for him.
- Colleges tell us that the #1 predictor of success in college is the rigor of the high school courses. Said differently, in high school your kid should take the Honors or AP class (even if the best he can earn is a B or C) because that harder-level class will push him harder.
- Don't make decisions based upon friends. Especially at that young age, friends will come and go easily.
- Someone above wrote about how kids choose friends. I clearly remember sitting in my first-grade reading group (we didn't have K back then), and I clearly understood I was in the strong-readers group ... more than that, I understood that the kids in the low-reading group were unaware they were in the low-reading group. Still, my best friend through all of elementary and middle grades was in the low-reading group ... I never even considered we were "mismatched".
- Look for kids' activities for friends and enrichment. VEX Robotics, for example, is a strong STEM activity. Look for summer programs at your local museums, through 4H or whatever resources you have. Don't overlook your public library for enrichment ... they offer so many good things, especially in the summer. I know I used to take my kids to animal programs, puppet shows, etc. in the summers.
- The desire to get our oldest into a gifted program was one of our reasons for eventually moving to public school. The guidance counselor said, "Let's give her a year and see if she's ready for it next year." I refused, saying I'd pay for private testing, if necessary. She easily tested into the program. I was talking about this at Girl Scouts, and a mom who's a guidance counselor laughed and explained to me: She said, "I've registered 15 kids for our school this week. 15 of the parents said their kids qualified for the gifted program." Okay, now I understood. EVERYONE thinks his or her kid qualifies, so the school is reluctant to take the parents' word.
- When my kids were in elementary school, aside from the official gifted program, they had various opportunities for enrichment -- one was called Math Stars and one was ... well, I can't remember the name, but it was about enrichment in reading. They were really worthwhile; my youngest especially loved that reading program -- it was kinda like a book club for kids who really enjoyed reading and discussing.
- One last thing, remembering I just retired from high school: When you look at who gets the majority of the college admissions, college scholarships, military academy admissions, etc. ... it's the public school students. Public schools offer a ton of advanced classes virtually now ... more classes than any high school could hold on their physical campuses. In my county, every public school has "an academy" for specialization ... one school has an industrial kitchen, one specializes in law enforcement /fire safety, our school offers pre-engineering. At the high school level, public school offers so, so much that private just can't.

 

[JLTraveling]

I’m around a lot of 4-6 year olds these days and I can tell you the only thing they seem to care about is having friends, playing, and who in the group has the coolest new Bakugan/Beyblade/Pokémon trading card. Whether their peers are inferior or superior to them academically is not even on their radar. If my child was frustrated with other kids based on their supposed intellectual differences, my primary concern would be to address the social issues first. If it turns out that they’re truly so profoundly gifted that they’re cursed to always be the smartest person in the room, then they better learn other ways to connect with people outside of academics.

This is true for 99.99% of kids this age. It is NOT true for the profoundly gifted. They don't frame it the same way adults do, but they are entirely different creatures from their peers. They know it, their peers know it, but none of them can explain it. It might come out as wildly different interests or a desire to discuss the world in a way that most kids don't start doing until college...but it's always there. And it makes the profoundly gifted child feel lesser, like they're doing something wrong by being unable to figure out how to fit in. They WANT to be like the other kids. But they AREN'T, and that's the issue. All the "addressing the social issues" in the world won't shove a square peg into a round hole.

 

[mom2rtk]

This is true for 99.99% of kids this age. It is NOT true for the profoundly gifted. They don't frame it the same way adults do, but they are entirely different creatures from their peers. They know it, their peers know it, but none of them can explain it. It might come out as wildly different interests or a desire to discuss the world in a way that most kids don't start doing until college...but it's always there. And it makes the profoundly gifted child feel lesser, like they're doing something wrong by being unable to figure out how to fit in. They WANT to be like the other kids. But they AREN'T, and that's the issue. All the "addressing the social issues" in the world won't shove a square peg into a round hole.

Exactly this.

 

[DLgal]

This is true for 99.99% of kids this age. It is NOT true for the profoundly gifted. They don't frame it the same way adults do, but they are entirely different creatures from their peers. They know it, their peers know it, but none of them can explain it. It might come out as wildly different interests or a desire to discuss the world in a way that most kids don't start doing until college...but it's always there. And it makes the profoundly gifted child feel lesser, like they're doing something wrong by being unable to figure out how to fit in. They WANT to be like the other kids. But they AREN'T, and that's the issue. All the "addressing the social issues" in the world won't shove a square peg into a round hole.

On the other hand, as a parent to autistic kids, we have had to raise them with the understanding that the world will not bend for them, they must learn to be flexible and live within the bounds of what our society considers "normal." Rather than teaching my children that the world will cater to them, I've had to teach them how to comfortably live in a world that is not necessarily accommodating to their needs. It requires a lot of effort on their parts and a lot of teaching on ours about how they "should" behave in certain situations or what they should say in others.

It isn't "fair", but it's a necessity to have this viewpoint. A profoundly gifted child needs to learn to live in the world we have, not the one that would be ideal for them. This applies to everything from classrooms to jobs to being a member of society at large.

So yes, they do need to have those social issues addressed. It IS a social deficit when a child does not match the behaviors of their "typically developed" peers, even if the child has a vastly superior intellect. The inability to engage with same age peers socially is a different type of intelligence, and I know a couple very profoundly gifted children who have NO social skills deficits/issues, and are well rounded in ALL the different types of intelligence. It is not a given that gifted children have social skills deficits. The ones I know personally are able to engage in age appropriate play with peers and have solid friendships within their peer group, but can ALSO pivot and carry on sophisticated conversations with adults about topics that would not be on the radar of kids their age. They don't all act like adults trapped in the body of kids.

 

[JLTraveling]

On the other hand, as a parent to autistic kids, we have had to raise them with the understanding that the world will not bend for them, they must learn to be flexible and live within the bounds of what our society considers "normal." Rather than teaching my children that the world will cater to them, I've had to teach them how to comfortably live in a world that is not necessarily accommodating to their needs. It requires a lot of effort on their parts and a lot of teaching on ours about how they "should" behave in certain situations or what they should say in others.

It isn't "fair", but it's a necessity to have this viewpoint. A profoundly gifted child needs to learn to live in the world we have, not the one that would be ideal for them. This applies to everything from classrooms to jobs to being a member of society at large.

So yes, they do need to have those social issues addressed. It IS a social deficit when a child does not match the behaviors of their "typically developed" peers, even if the child has a vastly superior intellect. The inability to engage with same age peers socially is a different type of intelligence, and I know a couple very profoundly gifted children who have NO social skills deficits/issues, and are well rounded in ALL the different types of intelligence. It is not a given that gifted children have social skills deficits. The ones I know personally are able to engage in age appropriate play with peers and have solid friendships within their peer group, but can ALSO pivot and carry on sophisticated conversations with adults about topics that would not be on the radar of kids their age. They don't all act like adults trapped in the body of kids.

Right. The social issues do need to be addressed. And they do need to learn how to live in the world. BUT, they need a more flexible world than the standard classroom provides. As adults, we choose what job we have, at what company. We may not like all of our coworkers, but we have the ability to leave and go to a different employer if the one we're at isn't a fit. We choose our friends. We choose our hobbies. Certainly we should be able to be nice and respectful and get along with everyone, but we aren't forced to spend 8 hours a day with people we simply don't get along with. I'd be absolutely miserable working at a gun range. Someone else would be miserable working at a grocery store. We don't force those things, so why should we force a child with any exceptionality into spending all day in a place they don't fit? It makes no sense to me.

 

[JLTraveling]

Adding onto what I said above, I never learned a darn thing in a public elementary school classroom, about getting along with people or anything else. But you know where I did learn? At the theater. I was blessed to grow up in an international award-winning community theater that launched more than one Broadway career. And it was there that I developed social skills, and emotional intelligence, and an incredible compassion and empathy for others. Partly from the group itself--we were all misfits, so it was okay to be myself. People liked me. I had true friends...and some of them were really smart, some were really funny, some were incredibly kooky, some were just average folks. Gay, straight, young, old, doctors, engineers, high school dropouts, rich, poor, the whole gamut of life experiences. And partly from the characters I played. I always wanted to go really, really deep into whatever I did. I was five years old when I found myself at a loss as to what to write for some assignment or other. When my mom asked why, I said, "Because the teacher already knows all that." I wanted to do original research! At school, that was a problem. A liability. But in the theater, it was encouraged. I went so deeply into script analysis and characterization and researched the time period of whatever show I was in...and not only was it rewarded, but I learned a lot. I learned how people live. How they think. Motivations and fears and hopes and dreams. And then I was able to apply that to my real life interactions.

Another place that I learned a lot was at work with my mom. She was working in day treatment then for people with mental illnesses too severe to be able to work, but not severe enough to be hospitalized. I went to work with her a LOT. And I talked to her clients. I learned their struggles, their triumphs, their hopes and their fears. I learned to empathize with them.

I hope no one is getting the impression that I ever thought for a single second that ANYONE was beneath me. I've always adopted stray people the way some adopt stray animals. If someone is hurting, I try to help. If someone needs money or food or clothing or just a listening ear, I'm there. Have been since I was little. I've brought people home and helped them get off the streets. So I guess I don't quite understand the argument that if profoundly gifted kids don't learn to put up with an age-graded classroom, they'll never learn to get along with people who are different from them. It simply doesn't work that way.

 

[TipsyTraveler]

This is true for 99.99% of kids this age. It is NOT true for the profoundly gifted. They don't frame it the same way adults do, but they are entirely different creatures from their peers. They know it, their peers know it, but none of them can explain it. It might come out as wildly different interests or a desire to discuss the world in a way that most kids don't start doing until college...but it's always there. And it makes the profoundly gifted child feel lesser, like they're doing something wrong by being unable to figure out how to fit in. They WANT to be like the other kids. But they AREN'T, and that's the issue. All the "addressing the social issues" in the world won't shove a square peg into a round hole.

Exactly my point. If a child can’t figure out how to fit in with their peers, then that’s a social issue they need help with. If a 5 year old shows no interest in fitting in with their peers, then that’s a social issue that needs addressing. In either case, helping them fit in socially would be my first concern over finding new ways to challenge them academically. Because, if the only thing they “know” is academic pursuits, and almost no one else will ever be on their level in that regard, then they’re being set up for a long, lonely road in life. I’d be doing my damndest to find other things that interest and fulfill them and then teaching them to use those things as the commonalities that can connect them to others.

FWIW, the smartest person I’ve ever met is a guy I went to high school with. (And my husband is in MENSA, but he looks like a knuckle-dragging mouth-breather compared to my high school buddy.) This guy was the kind of person that you could just tell was on a completely different plane of intelligence when you spoke to him. He’s spent the last 20 years collecting degrees and studying black holes. He also was/is a perfectly well-rounded person who had no problem fitting in and having a wide range of friend types. Everyone knew he was ridiculously smart, but it wasn’t the only thing that defined him. He played a few instruments, and hung out at karaoke bars, and told raunchy jokes. He found ways to be “on level” with other people. Being supremely intelligent doesn’t automatically mean someone is going to struggle socially — having under-developed social skills is what causes people to struggle socially.

 

[JLTraveling]

I’d be doing my damndest to find other things that interest and fulfill them and then teaching them to use those things as the commonalities that can connect them to others.

This. Is. What. I. Said. Put the child in a classroom where they can succeed and be fulfilled academically. AND ALSO pursue their other interests and use those to help them find commonalities with others. Exactly like I said in the post directly above yours. Mine were the theater and my mom's workplace. THOSE were the places where I learned to thrive socially. Kids don't have to be stuck all day in an age-graded classroom to learn those very important social skills.