Where has the Magic Gone??? Just back

[angelmav]

great post bumbershoot.

I dont think anyone is advocating that peole should have to prove their disability or anything, just that there are plenty of jerks running around who will take advantage of anything. Its these 'jerks' who ruin it for everyone else.

I think thats just another sad commentary about our society as a whole though.

 

[meandtheguys2]

I dont think anyone is being crabby or judgemental by commenting on the people who use them that dont need them. If you think that doesnt happen then your not paying attention. My comment is that those that use them or take parking spaces with their handicapped sticker that dont truly need them are taking advantage of those who do.

Many have been crabby and judgmental in the parks. A sad way to spend a holiday, imo. And who has the right to second guess who needs an ECV, GAC, handicapped tag, etc.

OP, I do hope that you understand that I am not talking about your OP.

eta:LOL, Bumbershoot, you said it so much better than I!

 

[angelmav]

Many have been crabby and judgmental in the parks. A sad way to spend a holiday, imo. And who has the right to second guess who needs an ECV, GAC, handicapped tag, etc.

OP, I do hope that you understand that I am not talking about your OP.

eta:LOL, Bumbershoot, you said it so much better than I!

Maybe I have just read this differently than you because I didnt get the impression people were being all that crabby and judgemental in the parks.

Who has the right to second guess? You mean by seeing someone with your own eyes taking advantage of the system and pointing out how unfair that is for people suffering with legitimate disabilities? Am I reading that correctly?

 

[RJD]

We just got back a couple of weeks ago. It was our first trip in 5 years with my mom walking instead of riding. OMGosh it was so easy! Gettting on and off rides, buses, etc.! We never saved a minute anywhere when she was in the ECV. We literally saw twice as much in half the time this trip. I didn't notice the crowds of them noticed by others, either. I guess it is just what you focus on.

Allowing small stuff to ruin the magic is sad. Hopefully you get past that.

Excellent perspective--someone who's done Disney with and without a ECV/wheelchair. Interesting to hear you say it was much better and faster without.
I also agree with the last paragraph. In all our Disney trips we've certainly had a few less than magical experiences, but I've considered every trip magical. We don't get down there as often as we'd like so I just try to make the most of every minute there and enjoy everything I possibly can. And the best part of it is being together as a family since as the kids get older, we don't do enough of in our everyday life. So IMO--family vacations are special and try not to sweat the small stuff.

 

[glitterkittyy]

Who has the right to second guess? You mean by seeing someone with your own eyes taking advantage of the system and pointing out how unfair that is for people suffering with legitimate disabilities? Am I reading that correctly?

How do you know they're taking advantage, though? You can see someone who can walk get up and walk for a bit, okay, but that doesn't mean they're taking advantage. It just means they're not wheelchair bound. It doesn't mean that they don't need the help an ECV can provide.

And what advantage is an ECV anyway? As noted on this thread, it doesn't get you front of the line access with only the rarest of exceptions (one being the bus). While the disadvantages to having to use one are numerous! I mean, think about it, at rope drop who is going to get to Soarin' first? You or someone on an ECV? Getting around in one of those is hard, and I don't see why people say others are taking advantage. The cons outweigh the pros from what I can see.

ETA the quote...forgot the first time. Doh!

 

[Disneylvr]

I dont think anyone is being crabby or judgemental by commenting on the people who use them that dont need them. If you think that doesnt happen then your not paying attention. My comment is that those that use them or take parking spaces with their handicapped sticker that dont truly need them are taking advantage of those who do.

Of course there are a few people that take advantage of any situation. I feel some of the posters here are making unfair judgements about who needs an ECV and who doesn't. Without seeing their medical papers how can you know they don't need an ECV by just "paying attention?" If you spend too much time "paying attention" to what everyone else is supposedly doing wrong you aren't going to enjoy your own vacation.

 

[JenniBugInPink]

Many nice folks have written very good replies explaining that 99% of the time ECVs don't get to go to the front of the line - we get to go park our ECVs somewhere else and wait in line somewhere else. We STILL WAIT IN LINE! Even if we have fastpasses. Even if we have Dream Fastpasses. You see, the ECVs have to go live out of the way of the people, the crowds, the regular people who don't have to depend on a vehicle to get them across all that land that Disney occupies. So while you may see us riding up the ramp and you may think we've disappeared into a ride, we've probably just gone to wait somewhere else.

While we're at it, why don't you just STOP ASSUMING CRAP and mind your own business? I'm tired of being talked about like I'm no better than gutter sludge. I can't do Disney if I have to walk. I can't walk those distances. I have a connective tissue disease. I have Sjogren's Disease, which also contributes to joint and muscle pain. I have plantar fasciitis. If you don't know what those things are, just suffice it to say, they hurt. I'm almost 50. I'm not Pooh sized. But, I don't "look" handicapped. I don't look 50. I guess to you I look lazy. Well, that's just too bad.

I'm fed up with the rude comments on this board, and the rude comments in the park. You don't know what I go through every day, just trying to get through the day. You want to go through my pain, you're welcome to it. You want to go through having MS, I'm sure that the MS patient you complained about while you were at WDW would be happy to trade with you. And that lady with rheumatoid arthritis? She'd gladly give it up to be able to have a day without pain. I know I would.

Heck, I'd trade with you just to get the bone back they took out of my thumb, and the one they're going have to take out of my other thumb just as soon as I can afford the time off. I'd love to not have the eye twitches. I'd love for my teeth not to be rotting from not having saliva from the Sjogren's. I'd love to make tears, other than the ones I make when people hurt my feelings...and this subject always does a great job of doing that over and over and over again...

 

[meandtheguys2]

Second guessing strangers is useless. You have no clue why they have a tag, etc. Frankly, it isn't anyone else's business. If I knew someone personally who was using a handicap tag illegally that is a whole 'nother matter. That would be reported to the police, after I talked with them. There are no legalities with scooter rental. Had I not been a cheapskate, and rented one for my blistering feet, that would have been my business entirely.

The majority of people are honest, and not out the cheat the system. This is an opinion of mine. Suspecting the world of cheating, to save a few steps is bizarre, and unhealthy from a mental health stand point. Being kind to people even if they are "cheating" is one heck of a lot better imo. Maybe they will learn something in the process.

eta: yes, people in the parks were rude to my mm in her ECV several times. One group of peole cut i front of her at the admission turnstile, while she was trying to scoot forward and not hit the CM.

 

[angelmav]

Maybe I am more sensitive to it because of my own disability. Maybe because my uncle has been wheelchair bound for more than 20 years, so we tend to pay more attention.
It seems that everyone wants to make this personal and about them when its really just a general comment about some of the bad apples that take advantage of any situation. Or just a general comment period. Nobody has singled anyone out here, but many folks have taken it that way for whatever reason.

 

[glitterkittyy]

I'd love to make tears, other than the ones I make when people hurt my feelings...and this subject always does a great job of doing that over and over and over again...

No tears. Even if one person stops judging due to the topic being discussed (again), it's worth it. Slow progress is still progress.

 

[meandtheguys2]

Maybe I am more sensitive to it because of my own disability. Maybe because my uncle has been wheelchair bound for more than 20 years, so we tend to pay more attention.
It seems that everyone wants to make this personal and about them when its really just a general comment about some of the bad apples that take advantage of any situation. Or just a general comment period. Nobody has singled anyone out here, but many folks have taken it that way for whatever reason.

General comments are like that. That generic "someone" really is someone. And you really don't know that person's life, health and issues.

 

[angelmav]

Second guessing strangers is useless. You have no clue why they have a tag, etc. Frankly, it isn't anyone else's business. If I knew someone personally who was using a handicap tag illegally that is a whole 'nother matter. That would be reported to the police, after I talked with them. There are no legalities with scooter rental. Had I not been a cheapskate, and rented one for my blistering feet, that would have been my business entirely.

The majority of people are honest, and not out the cheat the system. This is an opinion of mine. Suspecting the world of cheating, to save a few steps is bizarre, and unhealthy from a mental health stand point. Being kind to people even if they are "cheating" is one heck of a lot better imo. Maybe they will learn something in the process.

eta: yes, people in the parks were rude to my mm in her ECV several times. One group of peole cut i front of her at the admission turnstile, while she was trying to scoot forward and not hit the CM.

Your completely mis-reading what has been posted IMO. Noone is saying there is a great majority of people that are taking advantage of the system, but there are a few with low enough morals to take advantage of anything, to and including claiming/using handicapped access to which they are not/or should not be entitled. Sorry to hear of people being rude to your family member that was in the ECV, but people are rude everywhere, another sad comment on our society at large.

 

[5boyz]

Have not read thru this whole thread yet but will....I don't know about wheelchairs and rides as never noticed, but the buses......it is NOT fair that the people that are with the person in the wheelchair get to go on thru the back door too, sometimes they end up taking up 5 or 6 seats and there are already people waiting in line. The person in the chair I know they have to be strapped but that is all that need to go on. The rest shud wait like the rest of us in line. Unless it is a child or a handicapped person that needs someone with them.

 

[angelmav]

General comments are like that. That generic "someone" really is someone. And you really don't know that person's life, health and issues.

Is this not a discussion board? So we cant make generalized comments about a subject? Perhaps you could post a list about what topics can be discussed and from what point of views?

 

[glitterkittyy]

Is this not a discussion board? So we cant make generalized comments about a subject? Perhaps you could post a list about what topics can be discussed and from what point of views?

I believe the point isn't that you can't discuss it, but that you shouldn't be surprised when someone takes a comment personally. This is a topic that obviously evokes an emotional response on all sides of the issue.

 

[angelmav]

I believe the point isn't that you can't discuss it, but that you shouldn't be surprised when someone takes a comment personally. This is a topic that obviously evokes an emotional response on all sides of the issue.

I agree completely with this glitterkittyy, but no one should have to provide a littany of names, dates, places, examples, conditions to have an opinion.

 

[Disneylvr]

Many nice folks have written very good replies explaining that 99% of the time ECVs don't get to go to the front of the line - we get to go park our ECVs somewhere else and wait in line somewhere else. We STILL WAIT IN LINE! Even if we have fastpasses. Even if we have Dream Fastpasses. You see, the ECVs have to go live out of the way of the people, the crowds, the regular people who don't have to depend on a vehicle to get them across all that land that Disney occupies. So while you may see us riding up the ramp and you may think we've disappeared into a ride, we've probably just gone to wait somewhere else.

While we're at it, why don't you just STOP ASSUMING CRAP and mind your own business? I'm tired of being talked about like I'm no better than gutter sludge. I can't do Disney if I have to walk. I can't walk those distances. I have a connective tissue disease. I have Sjogren's Disease, which also contributes to joint and muscle pain. I have plantar fasciitis. If you don't know what those things are, just suffice it to say, they hurt. I'm almost 50. I'm not Pooh sized. But, I don't "look" handicapped. I don't look 50. I guess to you I look lazy. Well, that's just too bad.

I'm fed up with the rude comments on this board, and the rude comments in the park. You don't know what I go through every day, just trying to get through the day. You want to go through my pain, you're welcome to it. You want to go through having MS, I'm sure that the MS patient you complained about while you were at WDW would be happy to trade with you. And that lady with rheumatoid arthritis? She'd gladly give it up to be able to have a day without pain. I know I would.

Heck, I'd trade with you just to get the bone back they took out of my thumb, and the one they're going have to take out of my other thumb just as soon as I can afford the time off. I'd love to not have the eye twitches. I'd love for my teeth not to be rotting from not having saliva from the Sjogren's. I'd love to make tears, other than the ones I make when people hurt my feelings...and this subject always does a great job of doing that over and over and over again...

I know I am more sensitive to this subject for a couple of reasons. My best friend has RA and uses an ECV in Disney. My heart is breaking for her to think some people might say cruel things to her. Her wait for buses is often much longer because she often has to wait for a bus than can accomodate the ECV. The second reason is my daughter has autism, a sometimes invisible disability. Because of her reactions and behaviors in close quarters (attraction lines) we often wait in another area and enter with the wheelchairs and ECV's. We are not put at the front of the line.

 

[angelmav]

I know I am more sensitive to this subject for a couple of reasons. My best friend has RA and uses an ECV in Disney. My heart is breaking for her to think some people might say cruel things to her. Her wait for buses is often much longer because she often has to wait for a bus than can accomodate the ECV. The second reason is my daughter has autism, a sometimes invisible disability. Because of her reactions and behaviors in close quarters (attraction lines) we often wait in another area and enter with the wheelchairs and ECV's. We are not put at the front of the line.

I really and truly dont think most people would say anything cruel to her. To use my own personal example, its been very infrequent that we have encountered anyone not being most helpful and apologetic to the point of causing embarrassment in Disney or anywhere else. Do some people 'think' unkind things, probably. But I also dont think the world is this huge cold cruel place where that happens but for the most rare of occasions.

 

[glitterkittyy]

I agree completely with this glitterkittyy, but no one should have to provide a littany of names, dates, places, examples, conditions to have an opinion.

I agree that everyone has a right to their opinion and a right to express it. Personal experiences have been shared on this thread that, I think, should clear up some misconceptions about the ECV issue. There really are very few advantages so the next time you (not you personally...the general you) see someone in an ECV, you can rest assured that their day is not going as smoothly as someone who is physically able to tour the parks on foot.

 

[litlpixie]

Hi guys....first of all.....group hug!!! there don't we all feel better????
I will be taking my mom down to WDW in April and for the first time in my beautiful mothers life, she will need a wheelchair when we go to the parks. To look at her, she is one hot 61 year old, with a face that makes her look 15 years younger than she really is. She is about 120 lb. blond and cute as button...what you wont see is the pain she has in her left foot from a car accident 6 months ago. She has no brace, and no bandage and will not need the chair at our resort. I certainly hope the "Wheelchair Gestapo" will be ok with this. I wouldnt want anyone emabarrasing my mother