Where are (or were) the crowds?????

[Ellwood970]

I was at CBR the 1st week of November arriving Oct 30 the resort was very light all week. It picked up for the marathons that weekend. It was as if More than half of the resort was shut down. There was not 95% occupancy that week : unless, they manipulate the numbers and say the parts that were open were full.

 

[rteetz]

Dis Daily Fix thread of the day!

 

[kayteekt]

So we arrived 12/17, expecting HUGE crowds (our first time at WDW for the Christmas season). Crowds were lower or the same in EVERY park compared to our previous trips in the "off season", right up till Christmas day in Epcot. In Epcot, crowds were noticeably SMALLER than on a weekend Food & Wine day from a year ago. Today in MK was very crowded, but not any more crowded than our first honeymoon night on 10/21/2013.

I just don't get it. Everything we've heard about the "amazingly huge crowds" has not turned out to be true. TouringPlans called all the days we were in the parks this trip "10's", but compared to previous trips, they were in NO WAY a 10. And yes, I am including wait times at rides. Many of the rides at MK today were 20-30 minutes. A few rides (the Mountains) were 150, but nothing else.

What gives?

We checked in the 17th too. Our last park day was the 22nd. We were mentally prepared for crazy crowds, but didn't see what we expected.

DH and I were just discussing this last night. I actually pulled up touringplans to see what they said the crowd levels actually were...i was absolutely shocked to see they had all 9s and 10s except for one day (a day we thought was busier, they had at an 8).

Our experience was: 17th (sat)-19 (mon) were surprisingly less crowded. Not noticeably different than any other trip during non holiday season. The 20th and 21st, crowds were ramping up big time. The 22nd our last park day we did MK early (7am RD) on the last party day...so our experience was great but it was getting packed as we were leaving right at noon.

I see the Christmas crowds are def there now. My opinion...and it's just mine Is #1 With Christmas falling on the weekend some schools had a half week Christmas week. All of the schools in our area got out the wed 21st. #2 The week before Christmas is just not as busy as the week after?

Anyway, with it being our first time going this week, we had an enjoyable time and are considering doing again next year with extended family. So I'm interested to see others thoughts and opinions.

 

[danikoski]

Not really, Every offer released so far has offered less than what was offered the previous year. Room discounts are only up to 25% at a few resorts compared to 30% last year. They have restricted the resorts more so then before and reduced the number of rooms available at the promotional rates.

The general public offer was 25%, but PINs were at 30% for the majority of Deluxes for Jan through Jun 2017, with some blackout days. I was rather surprised that it went into June. I also got the PIN for apparently just logging into my Disney account and checking room prices.

Now, to be fair, AKL Savannah/CL, BCR, CR, and GF were only at 20%. But so we're all the Values, except AS Movies, at 10%. I found that discount on Values for that length of time different than previous years. I might be wrong on that.

I wonder if they are anticipating a dip in Brazilian attendance due to Brazil's economy...

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Madonna- you refer to an AP line, can you give more details? I would love to actually feel special because I'm a pass holder,

I'd feel "special" if I didn't get big price bumps for stagnate and/or wrecked parks

 

[Madonna3]

It depends on the room rate. Values are almost always a 15% price drop for the specials, right? So if it's a choice between the $18 (heck, call it $20 if you want) savings per night on a room or the $42 (lets say 2 adults at $15 and 2 kids at $6) savings on food (mediocre as a lot is, we eat a QS a day), I'd take the food savings.

Ugh I had this fantastic well written response and I accidentally closed the browser window, so I'm going to try again. So, I was looking at Mousesavers last night and they were mentioning how you can upgrade this package to a dining plan that is normally offered for the difference in cost. However, the valuation that Disney is putting on this package is a bit silly, but for upgrade purposes may not be so bad. For example, according to Mousesavers, the credits are valued at $16.08 per adult and (chuckle) $13.53 per child. On what planet does a counter service kids meal cost $13.53?! They're an average of $6 and I should know because all I order are kids meals for myself. So, if we take a realistic approach then the value is around $44.16 if you have 4 people (2 adults and 2 kids) in the room, which you would need in order to maximize the discount. However, if you take this offer and upgrade, you're going to get a better ROI and therefore helps cement my theory that this is the "free" dining they're going to offer.

Madonna- you refer to an AP line, can you give more details? I would love to actually feel special because I'm a pass holder,

From now until sometime through January, AP's have dedicated park entrances that are either all the way left or right of the main tap booths. There's an obvious sign with an arrow pointing to where the AP entrance is. It's fantastic and we loved it. We never waited to get in, just zoomed on through.

 

[sachilles]

I think Disney will need to see the numbers from this week, before we see any reaction on the marketing front. The modern visitor has more info about WDW than ever before, and mostly because Disney has forced them to think ahead about fast passes and ADR's etc. I think a greater portion of the audience knows or perceives the current construction load, combined with the price increases, and many of the repeat guests have taken a little break.
Disney has raised prices early in hopes of making the financial commitment to the new projects a little less of strain. This will allow them to look a little better as they hold prices steady through the period of big construction.
I think in the next 2 years, there will be plenty of deals to be had, or at least they will seem like deals compared to the last 2 years.
Average attendance may be down over this holiday week, but there comes a point where you lose out on some revenue when the park is over crowded. When it's overly busy, people spend less in the shops in restaurants. There is a magic point where attendance can be to make the most money, and it's not always having every possible body in the park at one moment.

 

[Matrix21]

I remember a time not far far away (2010-2012), i had a package (Airfare + Pop Century + DxDDP + park hopper ) for 1357$ CAD/pp (2010) and 1475$ CAD/pp (2012)...

And now, i was quoted 2025$ CAD/pp for (Airfare + Pop Century + DxDDP + park hopper). it's getting ridiculous. i can live with an increase, but not that much.
Not to mention that the DDP is not worth it anymore. At least not like it was 3-4 years ago.

DCL suffers from the same illness lol. I cannot justify myself a 1000-1500$ price increase now. My next cruise will be either Celebrity or RCCL for half the price.

/rent

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I remember a time not far far away (2010-2012), i had a package (Airfare + Pop Century + DxDDP + park hopper ) for 1357$ CAD/pp (2010) and 1475$ CAD/pp (2012)...

And now, i was quoted 2025$ CAD/pp for (Airfare + Pop Century + DxDDP + park hopper). it's getting ridiculous. i can live with an increase, but not that much.
Not to mention that the DDP is not worth it anymore. At least not like it was 3-4 years ago.

DCL suffers from the same illness lol. I cannot justify myself a 1000-1500$ price increase now. My next cruise will be either Celebrity or RCCL for half the price.

/rent

And Dcl just "ain't that great"...other than some of the facilities, they are no more enjoyable than RCCL.

And not near celebrity. That would be ok if they were same price...but they are DOUBLE.

The surcharge for the "D"...both on land and sea...has gotten extreme.

 

[Matrix21]

And Dcl just "ain't that great"...other than some of the facilities, they are no more enjoyable than RCCL.

And not near celebrity. That would be ok if they were same price...but they are DOUBLE.

The surcharge for the "D"...both on land and sea...has gotten extreme.

Sorry for the language but it sucks, because i'm truely a Disney fan (so is my wife) and it frustates me to see those prices. Back in 2010-2012, a trip to WDW was a no brainer for us, it fitted our budget (even under sometimes) and now it is way over.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Sorry for the language but it sucks, because i'm truely a Disney fan (so is my wife) and it frustates me to see those prices. Back in 2010-2012, a trip to WDW was a no brainer for us, it fitted our budget (even under sometimes) and now it is way over.

Language? You're fine

It's the point that matters anyway...and your points are totally valid and are being repeated here with more and more frequency

 

[wrlippert]

My last trip was 11/30 to 12/6. The crowds seemed a bit lower to me. This is the first trip in a while that I didn't have an AP. Over the years, I have stopped staying on property as I feel that I get a better resort for less money and a more relaxing stay, away from throngs of very "active" children. (I'm not against active children, I just need a little quite time to enjoy life.) I have burnt out on the dining plan, so that doesn't keep me on the property either. I am probably going to take a break for a while as the last few visits were "just OK." I have skipped Hollywood Studios lately without any regrets. Animal Kingdoms is still a partial day experience for me. Epcot's Future World seems like a tired slab of concrete outside of a few special or nostalgic attractions like Soaring and Spaceship Earth. I love World Showcase, but it needs something new besides the Frozen Attraction that is pretty much a new overlay on the old attraction (IMHO.) Getting tired of the Princess thing and worried about its potential influence on children. Disney Springs is still way too crowded for me to enjoy - starting with the parking and traffic. I feel that much of the human touch has been lost with many of the cast members who used to exude such a friendly and welcoming enthusiasm. These are the reasons that some of the luster has tarnished for me and perhaps why the crowds are lower - more money for less magic. At the same time, Universal has stepped up and I want to go there to see what's new. My last visit was just before the original Harry Potter attraction opened as well as a host of subsequent additions. I am starting to put other attractions on my list (like the Orlando Eye, and side trips to places like St. Augustine) and limit my Disney park days. Once I perceive that the Money:Magic ratio improves, I will adjust my priorities.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

My last trip was 11/30 to 12/6. The crowds seems a bit lower to me. This is the first trip in a while that I didn't have an AP. Over the years, I have stopped staying on property as I feel that I get a better resort for less money and a more relaxing stay, away from throngs of very "active" children. (I'm not against active children, I just need a little quite time to enjoy life.) I have burnt out on the dining plan, so that doesn't keep me on the property either. I am probably going to take a break for a while as the last few visits were "just OK." I have skipped Hollywood Studios lately without any regrets. Animal Kingdoms is still a partial day experience for me. Epcot's Future World seems like a tired slab of concrete outside of a few special or nostalgic attractions like Soaring and Spaceship Earth. I love World Showcase, but it needs something new besides the Frozen Attraction that is pretty much a new overlay on the old attraction (IMHO.) Getting tired of the Princess thing and worried about its potential influence on children. Disney Springs is still way too crowded for me to enjoy - starting with the parking and traffic. I feel that much of the human touch has been lost with many of the cast members who used to exude such a friendly and welcoming enthusiasm. These are the reasons that some of the luster has tarnish for me and perhaps why the crowds are lower - more money for less magic. At the same time, Universal has stepped up and I want to go there to see what's new. My last visit was just before the original Harry Potter attraction opened as well as a host of subsequent additions. I am starting to put other attractions on my list (like the Orlando Eye, and side trips to places like St. Augustine) and limit my Disney park days. Once I perceive that the Money:Magic ratio improves, I will adjust my priorities.

First: ouch, baby

Second: I find it incredibly difficult to dispute ANYTHING you said. Dead straight right down the middle.


I'm a sucker for Disney because I miss living there and I have to put zero thought into vacationing there...but that pull has been diminished a lot. My wife and kids don't get up for it anymore...it's become a "slog" at times. And yes - a lot of that is the cost and lack of perceived value. Where as once it was smiles and "that was really good" on the plane home, now it's definitely more likely to be "ehhh...it was good/ok"

 

[Matrix21]

Language? You're fine

It's the point that matters anyway...and your points are totally valid and are being repeated here with more and more frequency

I was refering to the "sucks" part

After 4 years of ditching WDW, i just booked a room at AoA for 3 adults in March. But to make our trip to fit our budget i went for the regular DDP instead of DxDDP. i saved 915$

We'll see what it gives!

 

[sachilles]

Too much of a good thing and all that.

I do think some of you wear out your enjoyment of the place. You really must vacation other places once in a while to truly appreciate WDW. Absences makes the heart grow fonder, and gives them some time to freshen things up from time to time.

More than once a year frequency is more than I want. I know some of you live in the area, and it makes more sense to take day trips. I'm thinking the sweet spot is no more than 10 days in park for every 365 days on the planet. That is for me.

 

[Madonna3]

My last trip was 11/30 to 12/6. The crowds seems a bit lower to me. This is the first trip in a while that I didn't have an AP. Over the years, I have stopped staying on property as I feel that I get a better resort for less money and a more relaxing stay, away from throngs of very "active" children. (I'm not against active children, I just need a little quite time to enjoy life.) I have burnt out on the dining plan, so that doesn't keep me on the property either. I am probably going to take a break for a while as the last few visits were "just OK." I have skipped Hollywood Studios lately without any regrets. Animal Kingdoms is still a partial day experience for me. Epcot's Future World seems like a tired slab of concrete outside of a few special or nostalgic attractions like Soaring and Spaceship Earth. I love World Showcase, but it needs something new besides the Frozen Attraction that is pretty much a new overlay on the old attraction (IMHO.) Getting tired of the Princess thing and worried about its potential influence on children. Disney Springs is still way too crowded for me to enjoy - starting with the parking and traffic. I feel that much of the human touch has been lost with many of the cast members who used to exude such a friendly and welcoming enthusiasm. These are the reasons that some of the luster has tarnish for me and perhaps why the crowds are lower - more money for less magic. At the same time, Universal has stepped up and I want to go there to see what's new. My last visit was just before the original Harry Potter attraction opened as well as a host of subsequent additions. I am starting to put other attractions on my list (like the Orlando Eye, and side trips to places like St. Augustine) and limit my Disney park days. Once I perceive that the Money:Magic ratio improves, I will adjust my priorities.

well said.

I was refering to the "sucks" part

After 4 years of ditching WDW, i just booked a room at AoA for 3 adults in March. But to make our trip to fit our budget i went for the regular DDP instead of DxDDP. i saved 915$

We'll see what it gives!

I view it more as you didn't spend $915.00. You didn't save anything imo.

Too much of a good thing and all that.

I do think some of you wear out your enjoyment of the place. You really must vacation other places once in a while to truly appreciate WDW. Absences makes the heart grow fonder, and gives them some time to freshen things up from time to time.

More than once a year frequency is more than I want. I know some of you live in the area, and it makes more sense to take day trips. I'm thinking the sweet spot is no more than 10 days in park for every 365 days on the planet. That is for me.

You'd think that, but you get this mentality of "I paid for it, so I should use it". I agree that visiting other places makes the heart grow fonder, but I visit other places and think, "man, I could have spent this money at Disney". Double edged sword I guess.

 

[sachilles]

It is a case of easier said than done. I don't think anyone visits this forum on a regular basis, that doesn't have some sort of disney addiction. Certainly worse things to be addicted to, but the first step is recognizing the problem.

 

[Lalalyn]

We first went in late January 2015, went again same time in 2016, will be back in late January 2017 and 2018.

Our kids are (almost) 7, 4 and 4.

We got AP's because between two 7-day trips, it made sense -- especially with the dining discounts.

For us, the calculus has been that Disney makes the logistics of traveling with kids easy. Things like -- We fly but I don't need to bring car seats.

Now, where all the resort and food pricing comes is for us is whether we make another trip in 2017 to take advantage of the AP's. And after they expire, do we go again in 2019.

If Star Wars and Toy Story Land get pushed back, forget 2019. If food and resort prices keep going up at the rates of last few years, we may stay off site once kids are in easy to carry booster seats.

It is hard to put visitors in categories. But practical economics can't beat the masses of people. Continues price increases will lead to less visitors. They know that and seem fine so long as they can squeeze who is left. How hard those people can be squeezed is complicated and very individualized.

 

[Wdwfan2016]

The general public offer was 25%, but PINs were at 30% for the majority of Deluxes for Jan through Jun 2017, with some blackout days. I was rather surprised that it went into June. I also got the PIN for apparently just logging into my Disney account and checking room prices.

Now, to be fair, AKL Savannah/CL, BCR, CR, and GF were only at 20%. But so we're all the Values, except AS Movies, at 10%. I found that discount on Values for that length of time different than previous years. I might be wrong on that.

I wonder if they are anticipating a dip in Brazilian attendance due to Brazil's economy...

Pin codes have always been 30% for selected Deluxe resorts that is nothing new. The change is they are more limited with room types, resorts and the number of Guests they are offered to then in previous years.

 

[TwoMisfits]

Just to put prices in perspective - I just got back from 2 days at Busch Gardens Williamsburg Christmas Town. I was able to buy tickets (as a non-passholder) for $16/person and parking for 7 days for $25 total. My hotel (Embassy Suites) was $100/night. It cost me so little that I paid for reserved seating for Elvis Stojko's Twas That Night show, and I paid to have a PPO lunch with Santa and Mrs Clause (which included a show, an unlimited buffet with beverages and dessert, and personal pictures with the elves, Mrs Clause, and Santa)...and I still paid under $1K for 6 people for the trip (gas, all food including all park eating, tickets, parking, hotel). While it was a touch cold (although one day was gorgeous), and the rides are more Six Flags than Disney (especially since they can't open them all for weather)...the shows (5 of them) are on par with Disney shows and scream Christmas 365, the rides could be reridden without waiting for hours, and the gorgeous lights and music of Christmas everywhere outshine Disney's free in-park decorations...so, when I ask the fam what they prefer, they told me Busch Gardens, hands down. And how can I not agree, when 2 days to enter Disney parks without ANY OTHER COST would already be over $1200 for us...