When will people come to their senses financially?

[sasywtch]

well than if what you are saying is absolute truth (not something he is lying about, not calling you a liar) then I repeat they are idiots but like I said I personally don't know anyone like them

tvguy tells the truth. I am a CA state worker and my pay is online by name, department, address and all that good stuff. We just got our bouncing ball pay cut today again. I do know a lot of people who live by credit card and confuse the wants with the needs. Maybe it's fortunate that since my divorce and little child support, I've learned to live by cash only the last 12 years.

 

[barkley]

Personally I don't know anyone who has any fancy cars or other toys or anyone that went for a mortgage that they couldn't afford (until jobs were lost.) Do I know what is going on with my neighbors ? I count the foreclosure signs, I see the sheriffs subpoena unit constantly in the neighborhood, I see people being turned away at food banks

I don't see the economy being the way the way it is by the average Jane & Joe's actions I see it as people being afraid to hire because they're not sure what the government will demand from them. These threads frustrate me too because it always comes down to people that lived beyond their means and maxed out credit lines and lived like there was no tomorrow. I don't know anyone like this.

i knew plenty of people like this-they are my former neighbors, and in particular-the couple who bought our home.

we were among the "odd ducks" that purchased in our former neighborhood. we were not first time purchasers-we were in our mid to late 30's who were purchasing a definatly non starter home (by ANYONE'S standards) and utilizing the equity from our 'starter' home. we purchased a home that despite being new, was well BELOW what the "experts" said we could afford AT THE TIME OF PURCHASE-not a few years down the line, when the true payment on a TOTALY DISCLOSED, PRIOR TO SIGNING zero down, interest only, arm came to fruition (which was what the bulk of our neighbors gloated about buying into, saying we were crazy to have not taken advantage of).

the bulk of neighbors however, were first time buyers who deplored the idea of EVER living in anything but their "dream home". they ignored the disclosures on loan documents that talked of how much the MINIMUM mortgage payment on their loans would be when the introductory periods ended. they paid their minimum payments, and then as equity grew in a strong r.e. market, took out home equity loans and loaded up on on all kind of "toys" (recreational vehicals, pools, spas, risky bsns. ventrues...), only to find that when their introductory rates on their loans came due they not only could'nt pay those, they were saddled with those heloc's in addition.

some lucked out and sold before the r.e. market crashed-others i cannot fathom what is occuring with, it has to be horrendous.

we were privey to the financials on the couple who purchased our home; i said to our realtor that i could not fathom how they could get financing as based on their income to debt ratio, the stability of their jobs, the purchase price of the home and what their property taxes would be (california-where property taxes are based not on the value of a home but what you pay at the time of purchase). realtor conceded he thought it was insane as well, but since he was strictly our agent (not the buyers), and it cleared closing, it was'nt our bsns.

the house closed-they bought it. they bought it and did what they wanted. hired a contractor to tear out $20,000 in backyard landscaping so they could park the "toys" that would'nt fit after they filled the 3 car garage with the other "toys" (multiple boats, recreational vehicals, motorcycles, pee-wee race carts, atv's, multiple trailers to haul the items...). the house closed even after they realized that they had'nt looked at the financing clause on their former home that said if they paid off the mortgage before waiting another few months they would incur a penalty of 12 months additional interest-we are talking in the tens of thousands of dollars. they rolled that loss into the loan for our home (reduced their down payment insanely).


all for the sake of their toys and their wants......


less than 45 days after closeing, due to a delay in the change of ownership name on a portion of the county assessors website (still listed dh and i) we start getting notices of leins on the property due to unpaid garbage, water and sewage (county law-due to health and safety it's not turned off, leins are placed), and contractor's-they bailed on the guy who ripped out our landscaping for their toys. we called our former realtor to see if we needed to do anything, did'nt even need to go into detail with him-apparantly it was a common occurance, common enough that the national real estate company he worked for had a form letter at the ready to send off b/c they were seeing it as the norm vs. the exception-people buying beyond their means such that within 90 days, if they were not already in arrears on their mortgage they were in arrears on those public services and lines of credit extended on the minimal equity theiy had on their new homes

 

[Carly_Roach]

Oh, boy. One of the things I love best is counting other people's money and deciding why I could spend it better than they could.

Truthfully I think we use these threads to pat ourselves on the back. All they do is turn into a lovefest where everyone states how the are praying at the alter of Dave Ramsey, living in little hovels, never buying any thing every they can't afford, never owning any luxury while the rest of the country is causing all the financial problems of the world.

I prefer to spend my time taking care of my own financial matters - rather than worrying and/or complaining about what others are doing with their money - especially people I don't know a whole heck of a lot about..

Agreed, agreed, agreed.

I think I'm going to start my own vent thread and the title will be: "When will people come to their senses and realize that they have absolutely no control over other people's lives no matter how much they think they have control over other people's lives?"

Except that this will impact my financial matters and your financial matters because guess who pays for someone else's bankruptcy, you and I and everyone on this board.

I agree with another poster who said that line is getting pretty old. For years my taxes went towards wars and tax cuts that I wanted no part of. I could complain and whine (and sometimes I did) but it didn't stop my money from being spent in a manner in which I disagreed with.

That's all a part of living in America - your tax money may get spent on something you agree with, but it also may get spent on something you disagree with. The only choice you get is deciding whether or not your convictions ("I'm not paying for everyone else's bad economic choices") are strong enough to leave. Mine weren't strong enough to leave and I learned how to suck it up and live with the fact that my tax money wasn't always going to be spent the way I think it should be spent.

It's called being a grown-up, taking responsibility for myself rather than everyone else, and choosing the battles I can win rather than the wars I'm going to lose.

 

[Mr.MouseFan]

Over the years, I've learned there are a few things you should never post about here:
1- Politics (learned that lesson the hard way!)
2- The "what should I or what would you do" thread.
3- Finances, whether it be your own or of others.

Just sayin'.

 

[phorsenuf]

And it is so sad. I know too many people that worked hard all of their life, never purchased anything new, never purchased a home because they were afraid to "go in debt" and never did anything for fun. And then they died. wow what a life.

What you said in your first post is true, people were encouraged to buy, and we did. Then the bottom fell out. I know people now that are losing their jobs and no amount of being frugal could help them out at this point. You can only save so much and you can only sell so much when the economy is in the toilet.

Also I have heard, and I am certainly not a professional. But they keep saying that we need to buy to stimulate the economy. YOu can't when for losing these days.

Agreed, agreed, agreed.

I think I'm going to start my own vent thread and the title will be: "When will people come to their senses and realize that they have absolutely no control over other people's lives no matter how much they think they have control over other people's lives?"

I agree with another poster who said that line is getting pretty old. For years my taxes went towards wars and tax cuts that I wanted no part of. I could complain and whine (and sometimes I did) but it didn't stop my money from being spent in a manner in which I disagreed with.

That's all a part of living in America - your tax money may get spent on something you agree with, but it also may get spent on something you disagree with. The only choice you get is deciding whether or not your convictions ("I'm not paying for everyone else's bad economic choices") are strong enough to leave. Mine weren't strong enough to leave and I learned how to suck it up and live with the fact that my tax money wasn't always going to be spent the way I think it should be spent.

It's called being a grown-up, taking responsibility for myself rather than everyone else, and choosing the battles I can win rather than the wars I'm going to lose.

I completely agree with this. People need to just mind their own stinking business with other peoples finances.

I'd love to see a thread like that Carly. The responses would be quite interesting.

 

[Nayan]

It all comes down to choices. We have/had neighbors who we were really close to, having cookouts and parties at each others homes. One couple own their house (it was given to them by his father) and the other had a mortgage. Now I say we 'were' close to both, because we no longer are. The one couple who owns the house constantly cries 'I'm broke!' and can't understand how on earth we possibly can have money to do things with and they don't. Because we made the choice to put as much into savings as we could, lived more fugal than college students and six years ago paid off our mortgage. They chose to spend their money on other things and hoped for a big payday from inheritance. Sadly, that planning did not work out, there is no inheritance.

The other couple was in the same bracket that we were, both had good jobs and could afford a few toys, camping trips, etc. We went away for the weekend and when we came home they were gone. House was empty, not even a scrap of trash. I saw the wife a few weeks later in the store and asked how things have been. It seems her husband had a habit that she didn't know about but found out when he was fired. They just packed up and left, abandoning the house (he drained every penny they had) and moving in with friends. He refuses to give up his habit, so she works two jobs to support the family.

We chose to work our fannies off, pay off the mortgage as quick as possible and do without all the fancy toys, dinners out, etc. Now, even though we can afford to do and buy things, we don't. We buy what we need but not to excess. It really does come down to choices.

 

[Luvchefmic]

It does NOT usually come down to choices. There are more good people doing everything right that this happens to every single day than people that painted themselves into a corner.

One more time for those of you who think it could never happen to you because you live frugally, don't buy toys, didn't get a mortgage that you knew you couldn't afford, all the people that things did right....just lose your job.(and don't qualify or rely on unemployment benefits).

YES it can happen to you AND your spouse...but you have savings even a 401K ? Good so did we, we lived on and off it in between jobs for two years on those savings and had to cash out the
401K. If there is no income it will truly shake up your outgo.

If you are praying people better pray it never happens to you...no one really thinks it could happen to them. Never say never. Well it can happen even if you have no credit line debt or car payments.

I wish you all well and I promise if I ever see anyone of you start a thread with your tale of "What happened?" I will give support, no judgement or second guessing what you "did wrong" and I will never even think the words "I told you so"

 

[gina2000]

Health care costs could send any solvent household over the edge. I'm not even talking about using health care. I'm talking about PAYING for it.

A greater proportion of an individual's paycheck is going to pay for health care benefits. I wonder how many people would choose to SAVE that portion of their checks if they had the money. It's become a real balancing act for many families as corporations push more and more healthcare costs and retirement costs onto the consumer.

I'm not saying that people are wise with their finances. But these costs paint many mid to lower income families into a corner. It's become increasingly difficult for many families to live on their income. And, of course, that leads to credit card usage for many necessary as well as unnecessary items.

 

[Luvchefmic]

Health care costs could send any solvent household over the edge. I'm not even talking about using health care. I'm talking about PAYING for it.

A greater proportion of an individual's paycheck is going to pay for health care benefits. I wonder how many people would choose to SAVE that portion of their checks if they had the money. It's become a real balancing act for many families as corporations push more and more healthcare costs and retirement costs onto the consumer.

I'm not saying that people are wise with their finances. But these costs paint many mid to lower income families into a corner. It's become increasingly difficult for many families to live on their income. And, of course, that leads to credit card usage for many necessary as well as unnecessary items.

another voice of reason...you just never know...I didn't even mention health insurance...of course we don't have any. The amount that would be required out of his paycheck, well I can't even go there, when the mortgage is not even paid on time can I really even think about health insurance.

 

[disykat]

Why on earth are people so sensitive that they are horribly offended if someone dares to talk about someone else's finances on an annonymous forum? I honestly don't get it.

 

[Luvchefmic]

Why on earth are people so sensitive that they are horribly offended if someone dares to talk about someone else's finances on an annonymous forum? I honestly don't get it.

I can only speak for myself but I don't see anyone being horribly offended or sensitive just trying to say things are not always as they may appear. Maybe what you are seeing is passion for the point of view. I think both sides are making valid points. No one got nasty though with each other IMHO, no one is attacking or anything. You want to see sensitive or horribly offended open a thread about the type of dog to get

 

[bettymae1121]

I'm putting myself into the "I don't know anyone with a million toys/vacation homes/etc." camp.

Heck I only know one person who is unemployed, and his wife earns more than enough to support them so he's happy to stay at home with their son playing Mr. Mom. He's looking but he has the ability to be a bit more choosey in what he applies for.

The people I know all have jobs, all have a few nice things, but for the most part quielty pay their bills and put some away for the future (my circle of family/friends are pretty open about finances). No one has a flashy car, no one takes huge vacations every few months.

If it wasn't for the DIS and the nightly news, I wouldn't even know a recession was happening.

My point is that you can't just look at the immediate circumstances around you and get a clear picture of what's happening overall nationwide. Your neighbor might be exactly as irresponsible as you think they are, but that doesn't mean everyone is. You personally may have done everything right and still got screwed, but not everyone is like that either. I don't for a moment think that just because everyone I know is weathering the financial storm just fine, that everyone else is too.

Everyone here is right. There are those that did everything wrong, there are those that did everything right. There are those that are getting by just fine. You just can't generalize based on your own personal experiances, because that is only a tiny fraction of the larger picture.

 

[C.Ann]

Everyone here is right. There are those that did everything wrong, there are those that did everything right. There are those that are getting by just fine. You just can't generalize based on your own personal experiances, because that is only a tiny fraction of the larger picture.

(Bolding mine..)

 

[brerrabbit]

I have multiple instances of people making really poor financial decisions I could share, but I won't. If you want to hear a bunch or them, listen to Dave Ramsey or Suze Orman, they have examples every day. This is really all a form of therapy and a way to make you feel better about your own financial situation. I do it every day. I feel like my problems are the worst, but then here are all these other people having problems and I feel much better about my own situation. That's just what we do!

On the other hand I will not be critical of the OP because I know from experience that sometimes you cannot avoid other people's problems. Why? Because for the same reason we like to hear about others problems to make us feel better, people also like to tell friends and neighbors how terrible their situation is. Both are the average man's form of therapy. My wife works with a lady that is in a world of hurt financially and gets to hear about the daily impending crisis. She walks away from her all the time because she just doesn't want to hear it but the lady keeps on talking. My wife has done everything short of telling her to shut up, which she won't do because they are somewhat friends, but the lady keeps on complaining.

I have friends in trouble, and yes it's a lot of their own doings, who want to share every detail of their misery. I try to be supportive, encouraging and generally sympathetic but in the process I learn many of the sorted details. Again I could share tons of these situations but won't, however I mention them in support of the OP because without prying or getting into these peoples lives you are provided with more than enough information to form opinions, and (gasp!) judgements about their decisions.

Currently it is just the world we live in and until we see some recovery it is the world we will continue to live in.

 

[tvguy]

Over the years, I've learned there are a few things you should never post about here:
1- Politics (learned that lesson the hard way!)
2- The "what should I or what would you do" thread.
3- Finances, whether it be your own or of others.

Just sayin'.

I disagree. The responses have been very helpful.

 

[dvcgirl]

Listen guys, for the last 30-40 years, the message in this country has been spend, spend, spend.
Credit was as easy to get as bottled water and people were routinely using their houses as piggy banks .

Now all of a sudden we act all morally superior? Gimme a break. Our economy is built on consumerism and we have learned that lesson well.

Bottom line is, as long as it's not illegal people are free to make whatever choices they wish to make as long as they can live with the consequences.

If folks want to use their money to buy big screen tvs and fancy vacations hey who am I to say differently?

Sure it's sad, I hate the irresponsible ones with kids but unless your neighbor going to move in with you why do you care?

Well, I think that you (eliza61) are really plugged into what's happening now, and what's been happening in this economy. I've read your comments on these boards for a few years and you know what you're talking about. But I look at it this way....a lot of people haven't really been paying attention to their finances. But now all of the sudden they're paying attention....because their credit lines have been cut back, or they lost a job, or hours cut....whatever the case may be.

I think a lot of Americans are very new to living within their means and so they are the new "debt evangelists". And there is a lot of anger out there.

And even though it sounds like the OPs neighbors are knuckleheads, they sound like a really extreme case. There are far more Americans out there who fall in the "grey area"....where they've been saving a little, but spending a little too much. In previous recessions those people could skate by pretty much unharmed, but not this time. Even people who did everything right, like living debt free and saving for retirement could be in big trouble this time around.

 

[palavra]

I think that your last 2 posts are about the best thing that I have ever read here on the Dis.

I agree!

 

[palavra]

another voice of reason...you just never know...I didn't even mention health insurance...of course we don't have any. The amount that would be required out of his paycheck, well I can't even go there, when the mortgage is not even paid on time can I really even think about health insurance.

Absolutely! We are one of the families that did most things right. Yes, we had credit card debt (paid off as of this month), but we ended up in a real bind financially because my husband lost his job and took a decnt paying security job for a while until he could get back into the corporate world. Unfortunately, it came with health insurance that was poor. It only covered 50% of hospitalization. And what happened? We found out I was pregnant with our first, only to find out it was ectopic. I had emergency surgery to save my life. And our hospital bills were through the roof! We paid off every penny of that money, have not declared bankruptcy, and still struggle to make ends meet. We have a small emergency fund because we simply can't afford a larger one. Oh, and when we bought a house, it was less than $100,000 and a mortgage we could afford. We still can afford the mortgage, but our health insurance rates have gone up ridiculously. ANd, this past year, I had another emergency surgery-gallbladder. There are many families like mine. We have "played" the game right and are still struggling.

BTW, we saved the money for our Disney vacation-no credit at all

 

[shortbun]

In this economy he'll probably get pennies on the dollar towards the value of those things he has that you don't think he should keep. If he owes on them, it would be dumb to sell them for less than the loan. Leave the financial advice to the experts is my opinion. If he's about to lose the things he loves because he lost his job, maybe he should enjoy himself while he can. More irresponsible would be continuing to buy things like that after a job loss. I know a guy, out of work for 18months - house in forclosure - still buying concert tickets and going on vacations. Hmmmm.

 

[DWGal210]

Not to put words in anyone mouths, but I think part of the frustration is when someone drags you into their financial drama with talking about it, etc. I don't give 2 hoots what your finances are or how you spend your money - BUT if every time we talk, all you can talk
about is how broke you are, it's hard not to judge their financial choices.

Example - I used to work
with a gal that would always talk about how little money they had, they were struggling, etc - and I mean ALL the time. Once she was talking at me about all her woes, but in the same conversation, told me she & her husband bought all the new release DVDs each week.

Truthfully, that is what is frustrating....at least to me. First, don't tell me your drama, it's none of my business. But when you do, how can I not react to that and think, "Gosh, if you didn't spend $150/week on movies you might be better off."