When will people come to their senses financially?

[tvguy]

Considering there is no market for boats or 5th wheels right now, I'm not sure what I'd be expecting my neighbor to do other than hang onto it.

And I'm not going to say what kind of car I'm driving; I'm not wearing flame proof clothing.

Boat got repoed today. He had a cash offer for it (according to him) for more than he owed, but elected to let it go back to the bank.

My point isn't what car someone drives, it's driving a car you can afford.

 

[tvguy]

Usually the motivation of the OP of any of these kind of threads I'm guessing

"Gee look how smart I am and how stupid they are"

There but for the grace of God, and really NO ONE knows what really goes on behind anothers front door

I lost my job too, found a new one thankfully, but you are correct, it could be me. What amazes me though is, in our household the spending cuts were the first thing to happen when I lost my job, not looking for a way to keep things we could no longer afford.

 

[Luvchefmic]

we can give our opinions until the cows come home or the thread gets locked. IMHO the frustration should NOT be what you perceive your neighbors have or do not have & how they got it..the frustration and disgust quite frankly should be directed at politicians that have ridiculous incomes (both parties) and leaders that don't seem to give a damn....vacation anyone?

 

[C.Ann]

Except that this will impact my financial matters and your financial matters because guess who pays for someone else's bankruptcy, you and I and everyone on this board.

That really gets old after awhile.. Since we don't know the why's of anyones situation but our own, just what is it we're supposed to do that will help you, me, or the guy next door?

There's nothing we can do - except make sure we have our own affairs in order so "we" don't become one of "them" - if in fact anyone elses situation was absolutely brought on by their own doing.. And how do we know that - if we don't have access to their private lives?

We don't.. It's basically just an assumption..

 

[wdwfan16]

Not to mention that so many people with 401's (and we do) have gone from thriving to down to almost nothing. That doesn't include the companies that have really messed with people retirement. Or like here where I live we had a Ponzie scheme going and this guy got tons of people (mostly gov't workers and police and firemen) to invest their retirement money and he was backed by a reputable company, he had them fooled also. Now some of them have nothing. I guess they should have spent less and they would be fine.

I am lucky, we have had quite a pay cut, I mean huge pay cut, but we are surviving, and without going into details it will never go up again. But we are still very lucky, some people have no income what so ever.

We are only earning 40% of what we did just a year and a half ago and we pay 100% of our health insurance. We are not going to lose our home. With that income reduction did come a reduction in work expenses. We also cut down on luxuries and yet we don't feel like we are just existing. We are very happy and expect to get back some of that income. We may never have that income again but we have never has an ATV, RV, vacation home, traveled to a different continent, owned a luxury car but we did have an emergency fund that made this reduction in income way less painless than it could have been. We also learned how to economize which is always good to know. It will help us in retirement too.

We do our own house repairs (I was doing sheet rock repairs earlier today), car repair except for electronics, shocks and brakes, have never had a housekeeper or a lawn service. We mow our own lawn and trim our own shrubbery. All of that helped us to be self sufficient.

Had we spent like many we knew we would really be sweating it now. I am glad we did not follow the masses.

 

[tvguy]

I can't for the life of me understand why it even concerns anyone what goes on with the neighbors..ok OP said the neighbors bankruptcy atty advised them to keep their toys....thats what OP says the neighbor told them I guess, you really only know what the neighbors WANT you to know...they could be lying about her income for example...I still maintain that no one knows what is really going on in anyone elses home

She's a state worker. In California (and maybe other states), state worker pay is listed by name in public records anyone can access. I think what angers me is the mind set that they are lookiing for a way to avoid their debt, and that he is refusing new jobs that are "below" him.

 

[Luvchefmic]

She's a state worker. In California (and maybe other states), state worker pay is listed by name in public records anyone can access. I think what angers me is the mind set that they are lookiing for a way to avoid their debt, and that he is refusing new jobs that are "below" him.

well than if what you are saying is absolute truth (not something he is lying about, not calling you a liar) then I repeat they are idiots but like I said I personally don't know anyone like them

 

[wdwfan16]

we can give our opinions until the cows come home or the thread gets locked. IMHO the frustration should NOT be what you perceive your neighbors have or do not have & how they got it..the frustration and disgust quite frankly should be directed at politicians that have ridiculous incomes (both parties) and leaders that don't seem to give a damn....vacation anyone?

Actually the best think Congress can do is go on recess!

 

[tvguy]

Thanks for the replies and feed back.


I guess to sum it up, my frustration is with a general lack of personal responsibility in our society today.

I grew up in the big recession of the early 1960's. I remember a neighbor having to file bankruptcy. They kept their house, but in those days creditors could still come after you for money after you settled the bankruptcy. Their life savings were literally in the cookie jar because if they put it in the bank, a creditor would snag it. My house was the "Kool Aid" house where all the kids came to play...my mom fed the three kids in that house a lot of lunches, because she knew their family didn't have the money for 3 meals a day.
Ultimately, over about 10 years, they got back on their feet, actually paid off every penny they had owed. THAT is personal responsiblity. Bankrupty then was a restructuring so you could pay off your debt, today it is to dismiss your debt.

 

[Luvchefmic]

Actually the best think Congress can do is go on recess!

see I knew we would agree on something

 

[mhsjax]

We are only earning 40% of what we did just a year and a half ago and we pay 100% of our health insurance. We are not going to lose our home. With that income reduction did come a reduction in work expenses. We also cut down on luxuries and yet we don't feel like we are just existing. We are very happy and expect to get back some of that income. We may never have that income again but we have never has an ATV, RV, vacation home, traveled to a different continent, owned a luxury car but we did have an emergency fund that made this reduction in income way less painless than it could have been. We also learned how to economize which is always good to know. It will help us in retirement too.

We do our own house repairs (I was doing sheet rock repairs earlier today), car repair except for electronics, shocks and brakes, have never had a housekeeper or a lawn service. We mow our own lawn and trim our own shrubbery. All of that helped us to be self sufficient.

Had we spent like many we knew we would really be sweating it now. I am glad we did not follow the masses.

YOu are doing well, and I hope you get back some of what you lost. We never will and it will continue until we retire. We don't have luxury cars and we drive them until they won't go anymore. So I know where you are coming from. As far as travel, we go to WDW and now really not even there. And to visit relatives in the Carolinas. I haven't even been to another state except North and South Carolina. I am quite happy, it has been an adjustment, but we are fine. The difference is that for us, we have some income and others don't.

 

[mickeysgal]

What is frustrating so many people that I know is that they've done all the right things all these years. They've within their means, bought a house that is truly affordable and reasonable for them, but their house value has taken a dive due to the amount of foreclosures affecting home values and the fact that no one seems to be buying any homes right now. All the things that they did right and were right, has still left them with an upside down mortgage. There's a lot of resentment out there to those that took on mortgages that they couldn't afford and contributed to the housing collapse.

 

[mhsjax]

She's a state worker. In California (and maybe other states), state worker pay is listed by name in public records anyone can access. I think what angers me is the mind set that they are lookiing for a way to avoid their debt, and that he is refusing new jobs that are "below" him.

Yep Govt' workers pay is public knowledge. If this guy had an offer on his boat for more than he owes, then yep he is and idiot. Also if he is refusing jobs that are beneath him, yep, he is an idiot.

 

[Luvchefmic]

Thanks for the replies and feed back.


I guess to sum it up, my frustration is with a general lack of personal responsibility in our society today.

I grew up in the big recession of the early 1960's. I remember a neighbor having to file bankruptcy. They kept their house, but in those days creditors could still come after you for money after you settled the bankruptcy. Their life savings were literally in the cookie jar because if they put it in the bank, a creditor would snag it. My house was the "Kool Aid" house where all the kids came to play...my mom fed the three kids in that house a lot of lunches, because she knew their family didn't have the money for 3 meals a day.
Ultimately, over about 10 years, they got back on their feet, actually paid off every penny they had owed. THAT is personal responsiblity. Bankrupty then was a restructuring so you could pay off your debt, today it is to dismiss your debt.

see I think this is where I have a problem with what you are saying, because I do NOT believe society as a whole is not responsible and also bankruptcy does not always dismiss it all...I haven't been through bankruptcy, I don't have that kind of debt to even qualify but I would think most bankruptcy doesn't dismiss it all anymore.

 

[mhsjax]

Thanks for the replies and feed back.


I guess to sum it up, my frustration is with a general lack of personal responsibility in our society today.

I grew up in the big recession of the early 1960's. I remember a neighbor having to file bankruptcy. They kept their house, but in those days creditors could still come after you for money after you settled the bankruptcy. Their life savings were literally in the cookie jar because if they put it in the bank, a creditor would snag it. My house was the "Kool Aid" house where all the kids came to play...my mom fed the three kids in that house a lot of lunches, because she knew their family didn't have the money for 3 meals a day.
Ultimately, over about 10 years, they got back on their feet, actually paid off every penny they had owed. THAT is personal responsiblity. Bankrupty then was a restructuring so you could pay off your debt, today it is to dismiss your debt.

I think that is why they are making bankruptcy laws tougher aren't they?

 

[C.Ann]

If this guy had an offer on his boat for more than he owes, then yep he is and idiot.

Just that alone should be a huge red flag to the OP that the neighbor is not being truthful.. One minute he was hanging on to everything (per this advice he received) and the next it was re'poed because he wouldn't accept more than what he owed on it? Perfect example of why people shouldn't believe everything they hear/see - or assume they know the "truth" about anyones financial situation other than their own..

 

[mhsjax]

Just that alone should be a huge red flag to the OP that the neighbor is not being truthful.. One minute he was hanging on to everything (per this advice he received) and the next it was re'poed because he wouldn't accept more than what he owed on it? Perfect example of why people shouldn't believe everything they hear/see - or assume they know the "truth" about anyones financial situation other than their own..

YOu are right, I have enough trouble keeping track of my own finances much less anyone else's

 

[Luvchefmic]

Just that alone should be a huge red flag to the OP that the neighbor is not being truthful.. One minute he was hanging on to everything (per this advice he received) and the next it was re'poed because he wouldn't accept more than what he owed on it? Perfect example of why people shouldn't believe everything they hear/see - or assume they know the "truth" about anyones financial situation other than their own..

Exactly and FWIW you can't even sell a vehicle/boat whatever without the lein holder going along with it if its already in collection & heading for repo....

and now on a personal note: Note to self stop opening these damn threads, its exhausting and can be similiar to picking at a wound or a sore tooth

 

[Buckalew11]

... too tired to type it all out...but I agree with your thoughts, OP.

 

[bumbershoot]

Listen guys, for the last 30-40 years, the message in this country has been spend, spend, spend.
Credit was as easy to get as bottled water and people were routinely using their houses as piggy banks .

Now all of a sudden we act all morally superior? Gimme a break. Our economy is built on consumerism and we have learned that lesson well.

Oooh, so true.

As a freshman in college in '87 I got 3 credit cards. Small limits, but still. Spend spend spend, have more than what you can afford right now, etc etc.

Now that went well until '95 when I was done with school and out on my own, and inside of one year all credit was yanked away from me. So I spent the next 15 years (and counting, since hubby's the one with the CC, though my sis in law did give me a CC from her account in my name, which was sweet) with no credit whatsoever, while all those around me have been going crazy. I *now* realize that most of my friends were putting everything on credit, while I was staying home, while I was giving tiny pathetic gifts and they were giving big ones, etc etc. Back then I just thought I was a loser with no money (which was also true, LOL).

But yeah, everyone's been urged to spend spend spend, buy beyond your income, etc etc, for decades now...not a surprise that people actually did it!

I do know plenty of these people.

Me too.

I have a friend who is really very smart who got a mortgage back in '04 or so with a balloon payment that was due last year. I was shocked that she'd gotten that sort of mortgage! But I've realized from conversations with her that she actually didn't expect to be around; she had chronic idiopathic autoimmune hepatitis, and was told at 13 that she wouldn't live to see 40. So it makes sense that she didn't think she would care about the payment.

My stepmom got a great job around 15 years ago and she and my dad bought their first house. Then a few years later, the house next door to them came open and they bought it. Then a feud with another neighbor started (the hills of Aptos CA is just like some old-fashioned hill-people story, I swear) and dad couldn't get in to fix the water heater at the second place, so couldnt' charge rent to the tenants, and they almost lost BOTH houses. they really really felt that they deserved BOTH houses because of how hard stepmom worked, and dad desperately wanted to keep the second house because it would be an inheritance for us kids. An inheritance NONE of us wanted or want, and that we would sell in a heartbeat. But he fought and fought and fought, and somehow, by the skin of his teeth, kept both.

But they paid for their lives for well over a year on credit cards. And they are now paying over 1K *in interest* each month while they try to pay that off. They felt they deserved those houses. My dad is in his 60s and stepmom is 10 years younger...

My FIL and MIL...they lost TWO houses. First one was lost b/c he was doing some hijinks when he owned a shipping company (do not mess with invoice costs when in an import/export business, that's the lesson there!). Second one was lost when BIL's partner didn't pay the mortgage on their shared duplex building for over a year.

ALL of those people had been making fun of us for renting. "You don't own anything, the rent is wasted", etc etc etc. They urged us, pushed us, into buying a house. They desperately wanted us to own a home. They couldn't see that "owning a home" comes AFTER you've paid off the mortgage. (and you still don't really own it...all that has to happen is the city wants a new highway to come through your yard, and your "ownership" is gone)

We could see that housing costs were going bananas. There are very very FEW places here in Tacoma that should be worth over 350K. But SO many houses were up in that range. It was laughable. I didn't know prices would plummet, but I didn't htink they could continue the way they were going. And our families and friends WANTED us to buy one of those things! HOW? how could we have done that, and still lived? Impossible.

But we were urged by ALL generations. FIL grew up in the Depression. MIL grew up in rural Korea while it was occupied by the Japanese. My dad grew up poor in Denver with 7 siblings. His wife, well, she was from an affluent family who owned a house for over 40 years, so she's the oddball (though her parents divorced when she was around 45, which must have been a shock). My friend is just a couple years younger than I am. We got it from everywhere.

Everywhere but my brother (who wants us to own a home but certainly doesn't want us to be stupid about it).

Ultimately, over about 10 years, they got back on their feet, actually paid off every penny they had owed. THAT is personal responsiblity.

OK...give your neighbor 10 years, then. All right?

Just that alone should be a huge red flag to the OP that the neighbor is not being truthful.. One minute he was hanging on to everything (per this advice he received) and the next it was re'poed because he wouldn't accept more than what he owed on it? Perfect example of why people shouldn't believe everything they hear/see - or assume they know the "truth" about anyones financial situation other than their own..

Agreed.