When To Try to Book Hawaii??

[Dean]

Thank you both for all your help! I wonder if I should try to find a rental on my own and then just rent out my points to cover the cost. Do you think this would be a better option?

Doesn't the Kaanapali beach club only have kitchenettes? (I may have my resorts confused). We definately want a full kitchen so we can cook.

Thanks.

All studios will have that type kitchen at the Marriott. The westin North studios have a cooktop and convection microwave in the studio.(a common "full" kitchen in II). All the units at the older section of the Marriott and for the Kauai Beach club as well have this type kitchen.

 

[Dean]

OK, we want to go to Hawaii in July of 2011 - so we need to put our request in during the summer of 2009? What if we wait for 18 months to start our search? Do you think it makes a huge difference in the odds matching game? Next question - will the points used for this exchange be from our 2009 points? What UY do they come from and how does that affect our 2010 plans? We have a Dec. UY - so we are currently using a combo of banked 2006 points and all of our 2007 points that we just got for our vac. THIS summer. We are planning on using the 2008 points that we get this next Dec. for our 2009 vac. So if we want to start a search for 2011 starting in 2009 do we borrow from our 2009 UY? Then what points do we use for 2010? I was thinking of another trade to Aruba for 2010. Oh wait - I need to start a search for Aruba for 2010 before I worry about 2011!! Will we be in a perpetual borrowing mode doing this? I'm getting so confused. We KNOW we want to go to Hawaii in 2011 bcuz we go every 5 years. Aruba we really haven't discussed much yet...I would probably want to go over spring break as sort of an anniv. trip...and we won't have the 2010 school calendar until I don't know when....so I don't want to plan w/o that. Our school district does flip flop around Easter sometimes.

One hesitation I have with trying to look at Hawaii 2 years out is now that DVC is building at Ko'Olina we want to also tack on 3 or 4 n there either before or after a week on Maui and we may not have an estimated opening date for them by then...so it would be hard to know if it will be open for the dates that we want to go.... Wonder when we'll get a little more info. about Ko'Olina?! We really prefer a 10 day trip to Hawaii coming from the east coast!

I doubt DVC for HI will help you for 2011. Even if it's open, getting time might be tough and it will be fairly late in the game. As for kitchens, the partial kitchen is fairly common for MX, the Caribbean and HI. The older Marriott's have a similar set up. We just got our exchange to Aruba for Jan, 2009.

 

[macosx]

Next question - will the points used for this exchange be from our 2009 points? What UY do they come from and how does that affect our 2010 plans? We have a Dec. UY - so we are currently using a combo of banked 2006 points and all of our 2007 points that we just got for our vac. THIS summer. We are planning on using the 2008 points that we get this next Dec. for our 2009 vac. So if we want to start a search for 2011 starting in 2009 do we borrow from our 2009 UY? Then what points do we use for 2010? I was thinking of another trade to Aruba for 2010. Oh wait - I need to start a search for Aruba for 2010 before I worry about 2011!!

...I'm getting so confused.

I'm confused by the UY as well, and talking with MS didn't seem to help. They explained, as far as I undertand, is that I must have points for the exchange regardless of when the exchange takes place and further, the exchange is automatic, so I'm never notified until I notice the points have been taken off my account. It didn't sound fair, but points could expire if I kept waiting past the use year and didn't bank them within the window. But doing so may leave me with insufficient points to make the reservation.

Your dilema for 2010 is exactly the same problem. You don't know when the match will take place (if it does), but you might have points expire on one hand and not enough if you use them on another reservation.

 

[Dean]

I'm confused by the UY as well, and talking with MS didn't seem to help. They explained, as far as I undertand, is that I must have points for the exchange regardless of when the exchange takes place and further, the exchange is automatic, so I'm never notified until I notice the points have been taken off my account. It didn't sound fair, but points could expire if I kept waiting past the use year and didn't bank them within the window. But doing so may leave me with insufficient points to make the reservation.

Your dilema for 2010 is exactly the same problem. You don't know when the match will take place (if it does), but you might have points expire on one hand and not enough if you use them on another reservation.

Never hold points that might expire on the chance you might get an exchange. If you have points reachable, DVC will make it happen. Since most exchanges should either be done short notice or well into the future, it really shouldn't be a big problem. As I noted previously, the points should come from the same UY as the actual date of the exchange. Still, my experience with DVC is that if you have points they can get under the rules, they will make it happen. Putting points at risk of expiring because one might get an exchange does not seem like a reasonable choice to me. If that's the situation, likely better to do a deposit first rather than a request first.

 

[macosx]

Never hold points that might expire on the chance you might get an exchange. If you have points reachable, DVC will make it happen. Since most exchanges should either be done short notice or well into the future, it really shouldn't be a big problem. As I noted previously, the points should come from the same UY as the actual date of the exchange. Still, my experience with DVC is that if you have points they can get under the rules, they will make it happen. Putting points at risk of expiring because one might get an exchange does not seem like a reasonable choice to me. If that's the situation, likely better to do a deposit first rather than a request first.

Thanks for the good advice. Holding points waiting for an exchange is foolish and likely to waste points. The problem is that using those points may deplete your account if an exchange comes around.

What do you mean by "reachable"? ("If you have points reachable, DVC will make it happen.")

Here's the confusion, "...the points should come from the same UY as the actual date of the exchange." Do you mean the date of the reservation (let's say it's August 2009), or today (Feb 08, if the exchange happens immediately), or sometime in between whenever the exchange itself takes place (say May 2009)? If my UY were Apr, the points available from all of the years could be tied up.

Does deposit first use up the points and therefore not expire? That wasn't my understanding talking with MS. Let's say I have 160 UY Apr 07 and want to go to Hawaii in Aug 2009, which cost 170 for a 1BR and 270 for a 2BR. Points anywhere from UY 07 thru UY 2010 could be involved depending on when they take them out of the account.

In the same example, 160 UY Apr 07 points would expire in 2 months, so I use them at WDW, but then in March, an exchange comes thru and needs 170 or 270 points, and I can only borrow 160 from UY 08 about to become current. Are UY 09 or UY 2010 in play? Am I penalized for not having points or have to pay another transaction fee? Would I lose a potential exchange?

It seems this wouldn't be a problem if one had more points in any future year than needed for the exchange reservation.

BTW, if depositing points first uses up points that are about to expire, what happens to the points if an exchange DOESN'T go thru?

 

[Anal Annie]

This makes my head hurt!

Since our UY is Dec. we sort of run behind with our points. We have already booked all of our 2007 points for summer of 2008 except for 10 which are still sitting out there waiting to be banked. (I think we banked our 2006 points into our 2007 points in order to book our 2008 trip which we booked in 2007.) Now we won't "get" any more points until Dec. '08 - but they will finally be our '08 points. I want to possibly start a search for a trade for spring break of 2010...if a match came thru quickly this would mean I have to "borrow" into our 2008 points that we don't have yet this spring, right? The 2010 vac. trade would not be coming from our 2010 points yet! Those are still like 3 years away! OK. So then at some point (probably next Jan.) we want to book our summer 2009 vacation for an extended family trip - and we know we will need all of one years points and then a few more for this. If we have already dipped into our 2008 points then we would have to again "borrow" into our 2009 points to finish up the 2009 ressie. Now, at some point in 2009 we also want to start a search for summer of 2011...I guess that would actually be done on our 2010 points. Am I thinking about this right?

Oh good grief Charlie Brown!!

 

[Dean]

Thanks for the good advice. Holding points waiting for an exchange is foolish and likely to waste points. The problem is that using those points may deplete your account if an exchange comes around.

You can always cancel a DVC reservation you made in case you don't get the exchange. You do need enough points somewhere if the exchange comes through.

What do you mean by "reachable"? ("If you have points reachable, DVC will make it happen.")

Use the same rules you'd use as to which points you could use for any reservation. This would be the current UY points and the next UY. For a Dec UY that would currently be 2007 & 2008 but you couldn't use 2009 points in that situation even if the exchange week you got actually falls in the 2009 UY.

Here's the confusion, "...the points should come from the same UY as the actual date of the exchange." Do you mean the date of the reservation (let's say it's August 2009), or today (Feb 08, if the exchange happens immediately), or sometime in between whenever the exchange itself takes place (say May 2009)? If my UY were Apr, the points available from all of the years could be tied up.

Again it's exactly like you were making a DVC reservation. It's the dates of the exchange (reservation you got through II) that determines where the points come from. If by chance that were 2 UY ahead say Jan 2010 (2009 UY) for the Dec UY example above, I'm told you would get the choice of the current UY or the next.

Does deposit first use up the points and therefore not expire? That wasn't my understanding talking with MS. Let's say I have 160 UY Apr 07 and want to go to Hawaii in Aug 2009, which cost 170 for a 1BR and 270 for a 2BR. Points anywhere from UY 07 thru UY 2010 could be involved depending on when they take them out of the account.

If you use deposit first they take the points now and you can request anything up to 2 years out from the date of the week DVC ends up giving II. While you can't have a lot of control over what they give II, you can specify the UY of the deposit. They will take the points at that time (160 or 270 for a 1 or 2 BR).

In the same example, 160 UY Apr 07 points would expire in 2 months, so I use them at WDW, but then in March, an exchange comes thru and needs 170 or 270 points, and I can only borrow 160 from UY 08 about to become current. Are UY 09 or UY 2010 in play? Am I penalized for not having points or have to pay another transaction fee? Would I lose a potential exchange?

It seems this wouldn't be a problem if one had more points in any future year than needed for the exchange reservation.

Hopefully answered above.

BTW, if depositing points first uses up points that are about to expire, what happens to the points if an exchange DOESN'T go thru?

Once you deposit, the points are gone forever. If you never get an exchange, you just threw away the points. That's one of the reasons I say never do this other than to extend the life of points you won't use anyway. Keep in mind that the rules could all change in ways that would affect the recommendations, they have in the past. Under the old rules there were situations where deposit first was the best option, not currently though.

 

[Dean]

This makes my head hurt!

Since our UY is Dec. we sort of run behind with our points. We have already booked all of our 2007 points for summer of 2008 except for 10 which are still sitting out there waiting to be banked. (I think we banked our 2006 points into our 2007 points in order to book our 2008 trip which we booked in 2007.) Now we won't "get" any more points until Dec. '08 - but they will finally be our '08 points. I want to possibly start a search for a trade for spring break of 2010...if a match came thru quickly this would mean I have to "borrow" into our 2008 points that we don't have yet this spring, right? The 2010 vac. trade would not be coming from our 2010 points yet! Those are still like 3 years away! OK. So then at some point (probably next Jan.) we want to book our summer 2009 vacation for an extended family trip - and we know we will need all of one years points and then a few more for this. If we have already dipped into our 2008 points then we would have to again "borrow" into our 2009 points to finish up the 2009 ressie. Now, at some point in 2009 we also want to start a search for summer of 2011...I guess that would actually be done on our 2010 points. Am I thinking about this right?

Oh good grief Charlie Brown!!

Now I may be confused as well, LOL. Spring break 2010 occurs in the 2009 UY and you're currently in the 2007 UY. If you got the exchange before 1 Dec, you'd have to use 2007 points (which you don't have) or 2008 points which you do. You would not be able to borrow 2009 UY points to make the exchange is my understanding. Once you get to 1 Dec and are in the 2008 UY, you'd have to use 2009 points for that exchange and could bank points from 2008 but not borrow from 2010. This is how I understand the rules. I will say that DVC has a habit of making things happen when need be. I have heard of a couple of situations where they waited a month or two to take the points just because of these type issues. For 2011, the same UY principles would apply. For an exchange a full 2 UY ahead, you get your choice of the one now or the next. Once you're within one UY, you must have points in that UY in total to pay for the exchange.

The reality is that the chance of getting an exchange a full 2 UY out is not that likely unless you're requesting resorts that routinely deposit more than a year out and you're searching for times very early in your UY. Do realize this is they type of question you'll get a different answer every time you call.

 

[ACDSNY]

Now I may be confused as well, LOL. Spring break 2010 occurs in the 2009 UY and you're currently in the 2007 UY. If you got the exchange before 1 Dec, you'd have to use 2007 points (which you don't have) or 2008 points which you do. You would not be able to borrow 2009 UY points to make the exchange is my understanding. Once you get to 1 Dec and are in the 2008 UY, you'd have to use 2009 points for that exchange and could bank points from 2008 but not borrow from 2010. This is how I understand the rules. I will say that DVC has a habit of making things happen when need be. I have heard of a couple of situations where they waited a month or two to take the points just because of these type issues. For 2011, the same UY principles would apply. For an exchange a full 2 UY ahead, you get your choice of the one now or the next. Once you're within one UY, you must have points in that UY in total to pay for the exchange.

The reality is that the chance of getting an exchange a full 2 UY out is not that likely unless you're requesting resorts that routinely deposit more than a year out and you're searching for times very early in your UY. Do realize this is they type of question you'll get a different answer every time you call.

Ok, now I'm confused too. Do your points have to be in the UY based on the date a match is found or the date of travel? I thought it was based on the date of travel and be reachable either in the current UY or a combination of the current UY and one year forward. Is that correct?

 

[macosx]

Ok, now I'm confused too. Do your points have to be in the UY based on the date a match is found or the date of travel? I thought it was based on the date of travel and be reachable either in the current UY or a combination of the current UY and one year forward. Is that correct?

That's exactly my question (and confusion), date of match versus date of travel. I'm starting to think it's date of travel, which theoretically means you could be making reservations beyond your next year borrowing, in a way borrowing 2 years ahead. Along the same vein, if you have that as a fixed date, then beyond current UY and borrowed points, banked points from the previous year (to date of travel) could be planned and banked for such use, no?

Thanks Dean for the input on depost first. While it's not a good plan, if someone has a month, week, or less and a bunch of points (at least 132?)that are about to expire, selling them in a fire sale might not yield much value or any available reservations, so it's a good last ditch effort to extend expiring points. In a last minute scramble, one might be lucky to recover maintance fees, or trade in deposit first for what's behind curtain number 3. Are there any other last minute use of points, especially smaller amounts, for use beyond expiration date of points?

 

[Anal Annie]

Well, it is certainly sounding like unless you have a LOT of points, it would be almost impossible to have 3 trips planned simultaneously (2 trades and one at WDW inbetween).

I would really like to go to Aruba over spring break 2010 but my school district won't say yet when they will have spring break. Probably won't be able to know that until about 18 months out. So starting a search for that will have to wait until I can verify the dates. Will just have to hope 18 months will cut it. If no matches are found after say a year, you can always cancel the search, right? It would probably be safer at that point to just book WDW or one of the other collections. Hawaii in 2011 I will deal with later....

 

[Dean]

Ok, now I'm confused too. Do your points have to be in the UY based on the date a match is found or the date of travel? I thought it was based on the date of travel and be reachable either in the current UY or a combination of the current UY and one year forward. Is that correct?

It's the UY of your actual travel unless it's 2 full UY ahead.

That's exactly my question (and confusion), date of match versus date of travel. I'm starting to think it's date of travel, which theoretically means you could be making reservations beyond your next year borrowing, in a way borrowing 2 years ahead. Along the same vein, if you have that as a fixed date, then beyond current UY and borrowed points, banked points from the previous year (to date of travel) could be planned and banked for such use, no?

Thanks Dean for the input on depost first. While it's not a good plan, if someone has a month, week, or less and a bunch of points (at least 132?)that are about to expire, selling them in a fire sale might not yield much value or any available reservations, so it's a good last ditch effort to extend expiring points. In a last minute scramble, one might be lucky to recover maintance fees, or trade in deposit first for what's behind curtain number 3. Are there any other last minute use of points, especially smaller amounts, for use beyond expiration date of points?

Actually under the previous system of DVC working with II, deposit first was a very good option but no longer. You cannot borrow points 2 UY ahead, just like you can't to make a DVC reservation. So if travel is 2 UY ahead, you have to pay now with points you can use now.

 

[Dean]

Well, it is certainly sounding like unless you have a LOT of points, it would be almost impossible to have 3 trips planned simultaneously (2 trades and one at WDW inbetween).

I would really like to go to Aruba over spring break 2010 but my school district won't say yet when they will have spring break. Probably won't be able to know that until about 18 months out. So starting a search for that will have to wait until I can verify the dates. Will just have to hope 18 months will cut it. If no matches are found after say a year, you can always cancel the search, right? It would probably be safer at that point to just book WDW or one of the other collections. Hawaii in 2011 I will deal with later....

It is a fair amount of points to do trades, esp 2 BR. Those with 150-160 points might have an issue in doing so but it's still workable with some planning. You could cancel that search but if your cutoff is going to be 12 months out I'd say why bother. Most matches occur much closer to your travel than that.

 

[Anal Annie]

It is a fair amount of points to do trades, esp 2 BR. Those with 150-160 points might have an issue in doing so but it's still workable with some planning. You could cancel that search but if your cutoff is going to be 12 months out I'd say why bother. Most matches occur much closer to your travel than that.

We have 250 points and are only 3 ppl so studios are fine for us...I do not consider 160 points outrageous for a place like Hawaii or Aruba where we have paid much higher rates on cash before...esp. compared to what a one bedroom at WDW would run me in a "high" season! A one bedroom (value) unit would run 189 points and a one bedroom (std.) unit in July at AKV would run 225 points! A one bedroom at VWL 270 points....Ummm...160 sounds like a BARGAIN to me!

I was trying to say that if nothing had come thru yet I would cancel a search for a peak period like spring break by 6 months out so I could go ahead & make other plans before it got too late to book what I want...

 

[Dean]

We have 250 points and are only 3 ppl so studios are fine for us...I do not consider 160 points outrageous for a place like Hawaii or Aruba where we have paid much higher rates on cash before...esp. compared to what a one bedroom at WDW would run me in a "high" season! A one bedroom (value) unit would run 189 points and a one bedroom (std.) unit in July at AKV would run 225 points! A one bedroom at VWL 270 points....Ummm...160 sounds like a BARGAIN to me!

I was trying to say that if nothing had come thru yet I would cancel a search for a peak period like spring break by 6 months out so I could go ahead & make other plans before it got too late to book what I want...

In this context, I was simply responding to your post implying that it took a lot of points to do the trades, not discussing the value in any way. From a value standpont for HI and top places, 160 points for a 1 BR is reasonable for top places at peak times. Same for Aruba for high season but not for off season. A studio on the other hand at 134 points is almost never a good deal though there are a handful of exceptions. IMO, the cost of a similar unit for a week at DVC really isn't applicable but you can draw your own conclusion. Sorry if I misunderstood your post, it suggested you'd cancel a year out, 6 months is more reasonable though a large percentage of matches would happen around 6 months out or closer.

 

[macosx]

We have 250 points and are only 3 ppl so studios are fine for us...I do not consider 160 points outrageous for a place like Hawaii or Aruba where we have paid much higher rates on cash before...esp. compared to what a one bedroom at WDW would run me in a "high" season! A one bedroom (value) unit would run 189 points and a one bedroom (std.) unit in July at AKV would run 225 points! A one bedroom at VWL 270 points....Ummm...160 sounds like a BARGAIN to me!

I'm not sure why you mentioned studio. I just checked the book and it's 160 points for peak season 1BR, and I would expect a 1BR in exchange. Is there some fine print that says we could wind up in a studio?

The other reason for checking the book is that I recently talked to MS and was told 270 for 2BR (like the book), but 170 for 1BR and 132 for studio. This was before I had the book, and it seems I was getting different information. The actual value of 160 points depends on whether you're able to match in high season versus low season, even though peak locations like Hawaii and Aruba are always peak. If you get a summer week or holiday, it's more than worth it, but if you're talking about September, it's less so. But chances are inversely proportional.

 

[sue]

Don't forget... you can always take advantage of the conceirge collection. We had trouble booking back in Sept 07 and are going in August 08. We will be staying at the mauna lani resort and spa. they offer 2 connectiong rooms at a very good deal. We are staying for 1 week (2 rooms) for 600 points. granted that may seem like a lot of points, but considering the hotel and how much room we will have, i thought it was a good deal. Also knowing we HAVE a reservation is huge! Otherwise a person may have to wait until the last minute to book airline tickets, which can be very expensive.

 

[Anal Annie]

I'm not sure why you mentioned studio. I just checked the book and it's 160 points for peak season 1BR, and I would expect a 1BR in exchange. Is there some fine print that says we could wind up in a studio?

The other reason for checking the book is that I recently talked to MS and was told 270 for 2BR (like the book), but 170 for 1BR and 132 for studio. This was before I had the book, and it seems I was getting different information. The actual value of 160 points depends on whether you're able to match in high season versus low season, even though peak locations like Hawaii and Aruba are always peak. If you get a summer week or holiday, it's more than worth it, but if you're talking about September, it's less so. But chances are inversely proportional.

I only mentioned that we're good with a studio b'cuz Dean said something about a 2 bdrm in one of his posts - which we would never book. I was just saying that a one bdrm would be a luxury for us and in comparison, point per point a trade for a one bdrm at 160 points to me is a real deal compared to how many they would cost at DVC. We have enough points that we can trade out for a week and still have enough points left for a studio for several days at DVC on another trip... I don't consider 250 points to be an excessive amount of points - they're enough for a couple of trips in a prime season but they take a little planning to use them wisely... Using them for the Concierge Collection would be a real splurge...that said...we are using them for DCL this summer!

 

[tomandrobin]

There was a bulk banking at Westin Ka'anapali Ocean Resort Villas for November 1 thru December 21 2008. Stydios, 1 bedrooms, and 2 bedrooms except Thanksgiving week

 

[Lexxiefern]

Thanks for the heads up. Too bad its not for feb/march 09.