When does a religion become a cult ?

[wvrevy]

Primetime Live is doing a show tonight on the Fundamentalist Church of Latter Day Saints. Now, everyone knows the Mormon Church. This is not that. This group...I don't even know what to say. They are highly insular and suspicious of outsiders. They raise their children to believe the phrase "Keep Sweet", which is basically code that means they must always obey their male elders and husband. They live in polygamy, having several wives to each husband, and the women are forced to be completely subservient. Basically, the women are to do nothing but breed more members of the church (if they're lucky enough to be boys) or future wives for the men. Their communities are so insular, the police often act more as enforcers of church doctrine than civil law. They even have their own nutjob of a "prophet": a wanted fugitive named Warren Jeffs.

And folks, this isn't happening in Taliban controlled Afghanistan. They have communities all over the west, from West Texas to Utah to Colorado and Arizona.

So, my question is, how are these churches allowed to continue to operate ? I absolutely understand the "freedom of religion" we are granted by the constitution. But when children are raised in this kind of situation...they aren't raised in freedom, but in chains. At what point does their religious freedom cross the line ?

 

[Charade]

Sounds like a cult to me. Scary too.

 

[swilphil]

Is this the group that was featured in Jon Krakauer book, Under the Banner of Heaven? It's a great book, and many of the law enforcement agencies do try to stop them from the polygamy and child rape. Some young girls were forced to get married in their early teens. The tricky part is they keep moving around and prefer very remote areas.

 

[SherryNC]

It's abusive in so many ways.

 

[HTH]

It's sick.

 

[JennyMominRI]

Top signs of a cult..I'm pretty sure this list was composed in the late 60's and gives the standard definition

A destructive cult tends to be totalitarian in its control of its members' behavior. Cults are likely to dictate in great detail not only what members believe, but also what members wear and eat, when and where members work, sleep, and bathe, and how members think, speak, and conduct familial, marital, or sexual relationships.

A destructive cult tends to have an ethical double standard. Members are urged to be obedient to the cult, to carefully follow cult rules. They are also encouraged to be revealing and open in the group, confessing all to the leaders. On the other hand, outside the group they are encouraged to act unethically, manipulating outsiders or nonmembers, and either deceiving them or simply revealing very little about themselves or the group. In contrast to destructive cults, honorable groups teach members to abide by one set of ethics and act ethically and truthfully to all people in all situations.

A destructive cult has only two basic purposes: recruiting new members and fund-raising. Altruistic movements, established religions, and other honorable groups also recruit and raise funds. However, these actions are incidental to an honorable group's main purpose of improving the lives of its members and of humankind in general. Destructive cults may claim to make social contributions, but in actuality such claims are superficial and only serve as gestures or fronts for recruiting and fund-raising. A cult's real goal is to increase the prestige and often the wealth of the leader.

A destructive cult appears to be innovative and exclusive. The leader claims to be breaking with tradition, offering something novel, and instituting the ONLY viable system for change that will solve life's problems or the world's ills. But these claims are empty and only used to recruit members who are then surreptitiously subjected to mind control to inhibit their ability to examine the actual validity of the claims of the leader and the cult.

A destructive cult is authoritarian in its power structure. The leader is regarded as the supreme authority. He or she may delegate certain power to a few subordinates for the purpose of seeing that members adhere to the leader's wishes. There is no appeal outside his or her system to a greater system of justice. For example, if a schoolteacher feels unjustly treated by a principal, an appeal can be made to the superintendent. In a destructive cult, the leader claims to have the only and final ruling on all matters.

A destructive cult's leader is a self-appointed messianic person claiming to have a special mission in life. For example, leaders of flying saucer cults claim that beings from outer space have commissioned them to lead people away from Earth, so that only the leaders can save them from impending doom.

A destructive cult's leader centers the veneration of members upon himself or herself. Priests, rabbis, ministers, democratic leaders, and other leaders of genuinely altruistic movements focus the veneration of adherents on God or a set of ethical principles. Cult leaders, in contrast, keep the focus of love, devotion, and allegiance on themselves.

A destructive cult's leader tends to be determined, domineering, and charismatic. Such a leader effectively persuades followers to abandon or alter their families, friends, and careers to follow the cult. The leader then takes control over followers' possessions, money, time, and lives

 

[Keli]

I don't think it's illegal to belong to a cult, is it? In other words, even if it is a cult, and they are promoting ideas that we think of as crazy, such as women basically having no position in the church and being useless for anything except breeding, if they aren't breaking any laws then I don't think there is much we can or should do. But if they are breaking laws (polygamy comes to mind, I don't know if they are doing anything else illegal) then we should arrest and prosecute them for those broken laws. If someone feels like a church is a cult but that church/cult isn't engaging in any illegal activities then I think we should leave them alone.

 

[Sandy22]

The children really suffer in these type of situations - especially the girls. Often sexually abused and forced to marry at around 12 years old. These poor girls are so sheltered they have no idea that this isn't normal.

 

[Aidensmom]

There have been many cults that associate themselves with Christianity, the common denominator always being a man that claims to have divine knowledge (other than God/Jesus) who leads the religion and usually advocates behavior outside of the norm (multiple wives, etc.) Mormons do actually fit into this definition.

 

[Charade]

There have been many cults that associate themselves with Christianity, the common denominator always being a man that claims to have divine knowledge (other than God/Jesus) who leads the religion and usually advocates behavior outside of the norm (multiple wives, etc.) Mormons do actually fit into this definition.

So do the branch davidians and look how that turned out.

 

[disneychrista]

My opinion won't be popular but IMO all organized religion's/church's are clut-like. When you blindley follow a church's teachings, imo it is no different then being in a cult.

 

[Charade]

My opinion won't be popular but IMO all organized religion's/church's are cult-like. When you blindly follow a church's teachings, imo it is no different then being in a cult.

Using that logic, belonging to (and consistently voting with) a particular political party, a club (like the boy scouts/girl scouts or the moose club) could be considered one too but I think the general consensus is they are not just as most mainstream religions are not considered cults by the strict definition.

 

[disneychrista]

Using that logic, belonging to (and consistently voting with) a particular political party, a club (like the boy scouts/girl scouts or the moose club) could be considered one too but I think the general consensus is they are not just as most mainstream religions are not considered cults by the strict definition.

Yes if you blindly accept everything that a political party or club says then yes. The key IMO to being cult-like is the blindly following the "teachings" of the said group. Or should I say the expectation of blindly following.

 

[Aimeedyan]

My opinion won't be popular but IMO all organized religion's/church's are clut-like. When you blindley follow a church's teachings, imo it is no different then being in a cult.

But do all that participate in organized churches really blindly follow the teachings? I sure as heck don't, and don't know one person who does.

I am sure that person does exist, and would agree with you in that they have created a cult-like relationship with that particular religious group if they think like that, but I don't know any of them.

 

[swilphil]

The children really suffer in these type of situations - especially the girls. Often sexually abused and forced to marry at around 12 years old. These poor girls are so sheltered they have no idea that this isn't normal.

And the ones who don't want to get married at a young age are threatened with being kicked out of their parents' home and even the community.

 

[chobie]

And the ones who don't want to get married at a young age are threatened with being kicked out of their parents' home and even the community.

Supposedly they are also kicking out many of the young male members as well because they don't want them marrying th young girls. The young girls are reserved for the old men who need and 8th or 9th wife.

 

[wvrevy]

So, for those few of you that do not have a problem with how this organization operates, what about the kids ? A little girl born into that group has no options, and is taught (brainwashed) from birth that she must follow the church's teachings absolutely, including submitting to a marriage she is not allowed to pick, usually to a much older man and often as that man's third of fourth wife.

I just don't understand how, in this day and age, people can still behave like this.

 

[chrissyk]

If these are the same people that Oprah did a show on last year, I also don't understand how this can be allowed to continue in the US. I really don't care what other adults choose to do with their lives, but the children are being denied freedoms that are their rights in this country. I don't understand why law enforcement/CPS can't step in and protect the kids.

 

[Charade]

So, for those few of you that do not have a problem with how this organization operates, what about the kids ? A little girl born into that group has no options, and is taught (brainwashed) from birth that she must follow the church's teachings absolutely, including submitting to a marriage she is not allowed to pick, usually to a much older man and often as that man's third of fourth wife.

I just don't understand how, in this day and age, people can still behave like this.

But this sort of thing happens in other cultures but we aren't supposed to stink our nose in other peoples business. Should we here?

 

[Laurajean1014]

Isn't it: When does a cult become a religion?