When did teachers become the enemy?

[peachgirl]

In fact, the NEA teachers objected to non union people (most of us adult education folks were not teachers by trade) even teaching in the class rooms at night.

And where I live, first year teachers know better than to join the NEA. Those that want to join wait until they have their first year under their belt because if they join the NEA they can be sure that their contract won't be renewed.

As far as taking it out of your check...you opt to do that, it's not mandatory anywhere. Here, most teachers don't because they don't want to advertise that they are members.

I guess it all evens out, huh?

 

[bsnyder]

I find it inexcusable that a class full of college level students have never heard of Guantanamo.

Will wonders never cease! I totally agree!

 

[Charade]

Btw, keep an open mind. Sometimes you learn the most from someone you disagree with the most.

Start paying attention....

 

[peachgirl]

I'm confused. This is what Hound was talking about.

Your confusion lies in the fact that the second quote you listed was from a different post than I responded to.

 

[WDWHound]

I guess it all evens out, huh?

Probably so, though it would intesting to to have a teacher exchange program, just to watch their heads spin with the different political aggendas both sides would be forced to suddenly deal with (LOL),

 

[peachgirl]

Start paying attention....

Trust me, I learn a great deal from the right.

You'll never learn anything if all you listen to are sources that agree with you.

Either you can name a union with a similar situation, or you can't.

Which is it?

No, Bet, I've seen you play your little demand an answer game too many times. I don't answer questions when I'm ordered to.

My answer stands. I think the NEA does a wonderful job of promoting teacher and student issues.

 

[rcyannacci]

Perhaps I'm not making myself clear. I stated that the teachers unions in this country have a blatant conflict of interest. Students are obviously not consumers in the same sense as a person buying an automobile, but in relation to the teachers union, they are the consumer.

You wouldn't say that the automobile workers unions have the car buyer's interest at heart, would you? No, their purpose is to extract the best possible working conditions (including wages, time off, job security, etc) from the automobile manufacturers.

Economics is not necessarily my strongest topic, but you seem to be setting up an adversarial relationship between workers and consumers, but it doesn't necessarily have to be like this. Indeed, they could be one in the same person...in fact, a consumer society relies on its workers to also be consumers; they are more important to the economy when they purchase than when they produce. So an automobile worker is also an automobile buyer. The adversarial relationship is between the unions and the business, not between the worker and the consumer.

Perhaps you ascribe a nobility of purpose to every single teacher, that they are MORE concerned with their students than with their own welfare and can magically give up their own self-interests. While there are probably some saintly teachers out there who are, in fact, that self-less, the vast majority are not. And I don't expect them to be. They are human beings, just like the rest of us.

Seems a little glass half empty. I chose to look for the good in people, personally. Call me an optimist, but I think it makes me a better teacher. I don't think I'm particularly noble, or saintly by any stretch of the imagination , but I do know that I chose a profession which I'm never going to get rich because I like the idea of dedicating my professional life to helping others. And, I don't think that's particularly rare. Of course, if students really were consumers, I'd be rolling in it! You should see my waiting list and course evals- I'd be off to WDW every weekend on a private jet.

 

[bsnyder]

Economics is not necessarily my strongest topic, but you seem to be setting up an adversarial relationship between workers and consumers, but it doesn't necessarily have to be like this. Indeed, they could be one in the same person...in fact, a consumer society relies on its workers to also be consumers; they are more important to the economy when they purchase than when they produce. So an automobile worker is also an automobile buyer. The adversarial relationship is between the unions and the business, not between the worker and the consumer.



Seems a little glass half empty. I chose to look for the good in people, personally. Call me an optimist, but I think it makes me a better teacher. I don't think I'm particularly noble, or saintly by any stretch of the imagination , but I do know that I chose a profession which I'm never going to get rich because I like the idea of dedicating my professional life to helping others. And, I don't think that's particularly rare. Of course, if students really were consumers, I'd be rolling in it! You should see my waiting list and course evals- I'd be off to WDW every weekend on a private jet.

I'm not saying there's an adversarial relationship between the unions and the consumer (in this case, the students). I'm saying there's many a conflict of interest between the needs of those two groups.

I'm an optimist too. And I'd agree that trait makes you a better teacher. And I also agree that teachers don't go into the profession to "get rich". But it also doesn't mean they check their self-interest, when it comes to their working conditions, pay scale, job security, at the door of the schoolhouse. That's impossible for the vast majority of people, whether they are optimists or not, simply because of human nature.

 

[rcyannacci]

Yes, it was UT prof. He taught US history. He was not the only one I encountered, but he was the worst. Perhaps things have changed. This was in the early eighties when being a conservative student at UT was not as common as it may be today. It sounds to me from peachgirl's and your post the the pendulum may have swung a bit too far in the other idrection, which is just as wrong.

I just don't understand why any profs, conservative or liberal, are allowed to get away with this. As you said, there are so many good profs out there, why do the schools let the few bad apples get away with. There is nothing wrong with politics entering the classroom at the college level (in fact, I view it as essential), but it should be an open discussion with no negative consequences. Sadly, it sounds like some profs on both ends of the political spectrum need to learn this.

I absolutely agree. By far the best classes are those with students who feel free to voice their opinion and have an open forum to do so. These are the exchanges that are so vital to a liberal arts education because it teaches critical thinking. In the right environment, students feel confident to voice their opinions, change their opinions, and ask for help.

There are lots of problems in the education system; those who really want to teach are rarely taught to teach because everything is so geared toward research and grant writing. The classes that affect the most students are given to those with the least experience. The first class I ever taught was a 400 student lecture course- it was me, a microphone, a computer, and two massive projection screens- and I received approx. 2 hours of training. (Talk abouttrail-by-fire).

I'm just frustrated that a real discussion of education in this country seems to be stalled, and that all of the criticisms in the public press are focused around these "blogsphere" type rants against liberals. There's too much that legitimately needs fixing, and this seems more diversionary than anything.

 

[swilphil]

To address the original poster's question, it seems that teachers became the enemy about the same time that the country split into two divisive camps--right vs. left, liberal vs. conservative, red vs. blue. In my area we have parents who are questioning the science teachers who want to teach evolution, along with the English teachers who want to teach authors such as Maya Angelou and Toni Morrison (to high school students). Little regard is given to the fact that the curriculum is set by professionals who have years of experience and education.

I taught high school for 14 years and I saw very little of teachers pushing through their political agenda. I'd say most of the teachers tended to be liberal to moderate, but there were certainly a few on the far right. Those were the ones who used to "preach" to the students.

As far as assigning students to write letters to congressmen, that can be part of the curriculum. Letter writing needs to be taught just as much as other forms of writing, if not more. After all, how often in your job do you need to write a literary analysis? I have taught classes where writing a "Call to Action" letter was part of the curriculum. Persuasive writing is also a big part of our curriculum as it is on the state writing test, which is linked to NCLB. The day after Sept. 11, 2001, I assigned my students to write a letter of commendation, which was part of the curriculum. Many students wrote to the president, the NY City fire department, or Rudy Guiliani.

 

[swilphil]

By the way, local NEA branches in my state aren't allowed to strike. The NEA here is really more of a professional organization than a union. The local NEA deals mainly with non-political issues--class size, work hours, personnel issues, etc. I belonged to it when I was a teacher because I knew if the NEA hadn't stepped forward 40 years ago, I would be making about a third of my salary. There's really not much pressure to join the NEA or not join it. There is, however, lots of pressure for teachers to join the school's PTA.

 

[septbride2002]

IMO, you were snookered.

If she wanted to teach you about Gitmo, that wasn't the way to go about it. If she wanted to talk about the plight of the detainees at Gitmo, writing a letter to you Congressman serves what purpose?

If she really wanted to "enlighten" you on the situation at Gitmo, she would have made it a research project and then discussed it openly in the class and encouraged ALL points of view.

But per the original thread they are suppose to research it. The proffessor told them to do their own research and then to draft a letter to their congressmen.

You are in a legal writing class - I actually think this is a great exercise since your congress men are the ones who pass the laws that you may or may not be defending. Meanwhile I would not be afraid to form your own opinion and after you are done doing your research (which is hopefully more then just talking to people on the dis ) that you will be able to write a wonderful letter.

I would not worry about losing time or not being able to perform well for your employer. What year are you? No one expects you to remember everything from college and I'm sure where ever you work will have a guide and or a refresh in training. And I always kept the books from those types of classes so that I would have my own reference.

So in other words Mole hill - meet the mountain. Mountain meet the mole hill

~Amanda

 

[Teejay32]

PS - TeeJay, I had never heard of it. My other post was regarding the information I came across during a search on the subject. The whole point of the original post was to see if the information I found was correct.

Sorry.

You can learn about Camp Delta here, and there's an article about the legal rights (or lack thereof) for detainees here, and the Supreme Court's habeus corpus ruling here. This might have more relevance to your class than you think, so, good luck.

 

[Molly Meow]

TeeJay - Thank you very much! And I just realized I sounded snippy - I apologize.

 

[Charade]

But per the original thread they are suppose to research it. The professor told them to do their own research and then to draft a letter to their congressmen.

You're right, she did say that. Ok, no problem with drafting a letter to their Congressman.

You are in a legal writing class - I actually think this is a great exercise since your congress men are the ones who pass the laws that you may or may not be defending. Meanwhile I would not be afraid to form your own opinion and after you are done doing your research (which is hopefully more then just talking to people on the dis ) that you will be able to write a wonderful letter.

Legal writing or political science? If it was legal writing, why not draft a law? Write a contract? If it was political science, then I could see the point of writing a letter to their Congressman. But why have the whole class write about the same subject matter? Let the students pick something that would have more meaning to them.

I would not worry about losing time or not being able to perform well for your employer. What year are you? No one expects you to remember everything from college and I'm sure where ever you work will have a guide and or a refresh in training. And I always kept the books from those types of classes so that I would have my own reference.

Huh?

 

[Doctor P]

OK. Time for a professor to chime in here. I am in my 22nd year as a college professor, and the more I read the more I feel the need to chime in. In the case at hand, the professor sounds like he/she was TOTALLY in the right on this one, and I don't think this is a particularly biased opinion. First of all, this sound like a law school class. Therefore, every one of these prissy complainers has a bachelor's degree already and is supposedly world wise. The trigger of this assignment was a lack of knowledge of Guantanomo and the situations there. It is UNCONSCIONABLE that law students, or undergraduates for that matter, are not informed enough to know what Guantanomo is or what the issues there are. It is also unreasonable to expect that on the basis of research anyone can come to the conclusion that there are not legal or constitutional issues involved in the way that the captives are being held at Guantonomo and the rights that they do or do not have. No matter what your politics is, it is possible to protest the conditions and treatment of the captives at Guantonomo. That does NOT mean that you are protesting poor treatment necessarily. You might feel that the legal position is that these people should be treated as enemy combatants and treated more harshly--you might be protesting treating the captives so well given their status. Furthermore, in a legal writing class you are going to be learning to write effectively to define a position that you may or may not fully agree with. I think this is a GREAT assignment, the way that it has been outlined. My job as a professor is to be provocative, to encourage students to think, and to push the envelope to elicit cogent and well-structured arguments. I go in the first day and tell them that I am going to pick on them incessantly and try, in some cases, to get under their skin and get them upset. Their job is to respond critically and rationally. An example: last week, I refused to accept a student's assertion that slavery was bad on the face. We then had a provocative discussion with me playing devil's advocate to elicit the key points. I will often give a provocative assignment or ask provocative questions. When I grade, the grading is based on logic of argument and clarity of expression. Frankly, I don't give a hoot if they agree or disagree with my position. I want them to listen, reason, and come to their own conclusion. As long as the opinion they express is well-reasoned, well-supported, and well-written, they are going to do exceedingly well. I know that not all professors are that way, but I really think most are. And, FWIW, my colleagues every place I have taught have ranged from arch conservatives to very liberal. There is no single mold, though you will find academics defend individual freedom as well as social responsibility more than the average bear does.

 

[Geoff_M]

Oh, conservative profs do exist... but they're mighty rare. On the issue of American campus' embracing of a diversity of political ideal, please watch this video:

Brainwashing 101 is a provocative short film showing how universities use tools such as "speech codes" to force political views upon students. In this cutting exposé, documentary filmmakers Maloney, Browning and Greenberg shine a light on political correctness, academic bias, student censorship--even administrative cover-ups of death threats--at three schools: Bucknell University, the University of Tennessee at Knoxville and California Polytechnic State University (Cal Poly).

http://academicbias.com/bw101.html

And for the record my wife is a teacher, and NEA member, who doesn't dare breath her conservative political beliefs to her co-workers for fear of them treating her like a leper.

 

[JulieWent]

I remember from high school that if I had a problem with the assignment, it was "tough luck."

Molly, You must have had some sorry teachers! I'm a high school English teacher. Hope my students don't feel that way. I'd like to think that thinking should be part of education at EVERY level.

Julie

 

[bsnyder]

Please don't tell me that an entire class of law school students don't know what ndn where Guantanamo is?

 

[Charade]

Professor...

I think the basic premise of the assignment (to research the treatment of detainees at Gitmo from a purely legal standpoint) is fine because it is a little strange that none of the students knew about Gitmo and the detainees. But writing a letter serves what purpose? What will the class get out of the exercise? Why have a mock investigation about the legal issues? Having a class send letters to their Senators or Congressman really sounds like political activism to me. There is nothing wrong with that but that's not what my idea of getting a higher education is all about but more of a student project if they decide to do so on their own.