Wheelchair on bus and in line

[SueM in MN]

I am copying something I posted on another thread about buses.
There are apparently some assumptions that people must get up from the bus seats used for wheelchairs if asked.

This is the actual text from the applicable law (my bold)

"(j)(1) When an individual with a disability enters a vehicle, and because of a disability, the individual needs to sit in a seat or occupy a wheelchair securement location, the entity shall ask the following persons to move in order to allow the individual with a disability to occupy the seat or securement location:

(i) Individuals, except other individuals with a disability or elderly persons, sitting in a location designated as priority seating for elderly and handicapped persons (or other seat as necessary);

(ii) Individuals sitting in or a fold-down or other movable seat in a wheelchair securement location.

(2) This requirement applies to light rail, rapid rail, and commuter rail systems only to the extent practicable.

(3) The entity is not required to enforce the request that other passengers move from priority seating areas or wheelchair securement locations.

(4) In all signage designating priority seating areas for elderly persons and persons with disabilities, or designating wheelchair securement areas, the entity shall include language informing persons sitting in these locations that they should comply with requests by transit provider personnel to vacate their seats to make room for an individual with a disability. This requirement applies to all fixed route vehicles when they are acquired by the entity or to new or replacement signage in the entity's existing fixed route vehicles."

This is a link to the law:
http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-id...ext&node=49:1.0.1.1.27&idno=49#se49.1.37_1167

It is DOT 49 CFR SECTION 37.167 (j)

So, they are required to ask, but are not required to make people get up or move.
And, there are times they won't ask - one would be when the bus is so full that there are people standing and even if the securement spots were vacant, the wheelchair/ECV could not safely get there and have space for the driver to tie it down.
Another would be if the spot closest to the door already has an ECV in it and another would not be able to get by to get to the spot closer to the front.
Those things don't happen that often, but they do happen.

If the driver is not able to take the wheelchair, the dispatcher is supposed to be notified so another bus can be sent to pick up the guest using a mobility device.

 

[Gracie09]

But that was NOT the case here. The people were fine getting up. As I said.

And you know that how?

 

[SueM in MN]

This is something I posted in another thread about buses that I am copying here.
This is a picture of a resort bus stop sign.

This one is from OKW, but all the resort bus stops have them. The signs all have the same text, but are themed to the resort they are at.

This is the sign above the wheelchair securement area on the buses.

Some have a little different text and may just say that there are wheelchair securement spots under the bench.

 

[YayHeyNoWay]

And you know that how?

Because they said, "It's no problem. We'll get up"

 

[YayHeyNoWay]

I am copying something I posted on another thread about buses.
There are apparently some assumptions that people must get up from the bus seats used for wheelchairs if asked.

This is the actual text from the applicable law (my bold)

"(j)(1) When an individual with a disability enters a vehicle, and because of a disability, the individual needs to sit in a seat or occupy a wheelchair securement location, the entity shall ask the following persons to move in order to allow the individual with a disability to occupy the seat or securement location:

(i) Individuals, except other individuals with a disability or elderly persons, sitting in a location designated as priority seating for elderly and handicapped persons (or other seat as necessary);

(ii) Individuals sitting in or a fold-down or other movable seat in a wheelchair securement location.

(2) This requirement applies to light rail, rapid rail, and commuter rail systems only to the extent practicable.

(3) The entity is not required to enforce the request that other passengers move from priority seating areas or wheelchair securement locations.

(4) In all signage designating priority seating areas for elderly persons and persons with disabilities, or designating wheelchair securement areas, the entity shall include language informing persons sitting in these locations that they should comply with requests by transit provider personnel to vacate their seats to make room for an individual with a disability. This requirement applies to all fixed route vehicles when they are acquired by the entity or to new or replacement signage in the entity's existing fixed route vehicles."

This is a link to the law:
http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-id...ext&node=49:1.0.1.1.27&idno=49#se49.1.37_1167

It is DOT 49 CFR SECTION 37.167 (j)

So, they are required to ask, but are not required to make people get up or move.
And, there are times they won't ask - one would be when the bus is so full that there are people standing and even if the securement spots were vacant, the wheelchair/ECV could not safely get there and have space for the driver to tie it down.
Another would be if the spot closest to the door already has an ECV in it and another would not be able to get by to get to the spot closer to the front.
Those things don't happen that often, but they do happen.

If the driver is not able to take the wheelchair, the dispatcher is supposed to be notified so another bus can be sent to pick up the guest using a mobility device.

Sue, I am quoting the sign, so it is text based:

PRIORITY SEATING
Passengers must give up
those seats to guests using
wheelchairs / scooters

You state that "There are apparently some assumptions that people must get up from the bus seats used for wheelchairs if asked." ...Why would there even be a sign that says this, if people don't have to get up?

 

[YayHeyNoWay]

Sorry about that, I have no idea how to quote only part of a post!

 

[disney david]

Sue, I am quoting the sign, so it is text based:

PRIORITY SEATING
Passengers must give up
those seats to guests using
wheelchairs / scooters

You state that "There are apparently some assumptions that people must get up from the bus seats used for wheelchairs if asked." ...Why would there even be a sign that says this, if people don't have to get up?

The Ada and dot makes it a requirement for bus manufacturers to put the signs on all buses before they can be registered with the dot. I guess their thought is if their a sign it might deter someone from siting at those seats or getting up when they see a guest in a ecv or wheelchair. That also why they only require the driver only to ask a guest to move because they have the sign their.

 

[SueM in MN]

Sue, I am quoting the sign, so it is text based:

PRIORITY SEATING
Passengers must give up
those seats to guests using
wheelchairs / scooters

You state that "There are apparently some assumptions that people must get up from the bus seats used for wheelchairs if asked." ...Why would there even be a sign that says this, if people don't have to get up?

That is why I posted the law - there is a requirement to ask, but no requirement that the people sitting there get up or be forced to move.
So, asking is a requirement, getting up is voluntary.

Some of the WDW buses have the other, more coercive sign I posted earlier and some have this sign that just says there is a wheelchair securement device under the seat.
That seems to be the sign on many of the newer buses.

I'm not going to argue about the sign - the various signs say what they say and the law says what it says.
Some of the signs may be stronger in hope of convincing people to choose other seats in the first place or move more readily if asked.

My family has had many different experiences over the years on the buses traveling with a wheelchair. Most have been good, some have been not so good and a couple have been really bad.

We have been on buses where:
- the driver told people sitting in those seats that the bus was not moving until they moved.
- the driver asked nicely and the people moved.
- the driver didn't gave to ask; the people saw our daughter's wheelchair and moved before being asked
- the driver didn't ask, told us there were people sitting there so we would have to wait for the next bus.

I'm not one to get bent out of shape about it, but will complain if it seems out of line. I have made a complaint against a driver more than once; there is information on how to make a complaint in the disABILITIES FAQs thread.

So, why would people not move?
- they are settled and tired and don't want to move
- they have put their folded stroller under the seat and feel it would be too much hassle to move it.
- there are no seats left
- they need to sit themselves
- and, there are probably a few who don't like people with disabilities or are mean, rude, distracted or didn't notice

So, why would a driver not ask?
- some are probably intimidated by asking the guests in the seat to move, so the easiest way is to just not ask
- some won't ask unless there are seats left for those guests to move to
- some may have had bad experiences where they got yelled at or had a complain from a guest who was asked to move ( and are afraid of getting a complaint)
- some may think a guest with a wheelchair/ECV is not likely to make a complaint
- sometimes there may not be room for the ECV/wheelchair to load, even if people get off of those seats.
- and there are probably a few who are behind schedule and see a wheelchair as a further delay, don't like people with disabilities, are mean, rude, lazy, don't like doing a wheelchair tiedown or don't really know how to.

I don't see a need to continue this thread since it had gotten into arguing, and the original post was 4 months ago and had been answered. So I am closing it at this time.