What's your theory (odd surveyor activity)

[OneOftheB's]

I live in on an established road. The entire road are properties of 2 acres or larger, with the earliest homes built in the 1950's and the last lot under construction now. Our little road is an oddity, we are nearly surrounded by land that has been annexed by the local city over the years and new developments built that are all on smaller lots or built as commercial property. The final piece of land that can be annexed has been annexed and a cluster home community is currently under construction (approximately 74 homes on 27 acres, with about 6 acres of that total being unbuildable due to a lake and creek). The first two homes on my road were annexed by the city to give access to the new parcels for annexation- the city isn't allowed to annex properties that do not touch the city limits.

The development has been clearing, moving dirt, blasting rock etc for about a year and they are now installing the utilities and are pouring curbs. About 2 months ago, a survey crew drove down our road and spray painted arrows on the road in a seemingly random pattern; they did not in any way match the property lines for the existing properties, but the spray painting was only done in front of homes that share a property line with the new development. The following week, a survey crew was back on our street and marked property lines for 6 homes on my road, again all on properties that were adjacent to the new development, except for one, which was across the street from the adjoining properties. The survey crew has been on the street, surveying but not marking anything new, nearly every week since. I finally had the chance to speak to one of the crew members and he had no idea why they were there, he was just following orders (which may or may not be the case and he was just told not to say anything).

Today, a survey crew was back out. This time they placed stakes with flags along the front property lines for 6 of the 8 properties that share a property line with the new development. The stakes vary from 5 ft to 30 ft apart, but I don't see a pattern as to why the distances vary. The properties along that section of the road are wider than they are deep (average of 450 ft wide) so each property has multiple stakes across the front property (closest to the road, this is the property line that would be the only line that doesn't touch the new development)

So, if you made it through all of that, congratulations! And if you did, does anyone know why a developer would go to this extreme, on multiple properties he does not own? He/they have not contacted any of the property owners on my road, and the city has no idea of any issues with the development and property lines of adjacent parcels.

 

[easyas123]

Well...we have (as a contractor) had to contact property owners prior to and during construction (not residential, just in a residential area) so perhaps they are making sure they have the right property lines? In our case we needed to document the exact property lines and record the condition of the properties in order to make sure they were returned to the same condition if parts of their property were disturbed by our construction. It was also a way to cover our butts in the case of angry/disagreeable property owners who were not aware of what the state/town/county was having done and decided to take it out on us, the contractor.
Why not -
Ask the surveyors?
Ask the county/town?
Ask the contractor?

 

[barkley]

something to do with easements maybe? if i were one of the property owners i would be finding out before someone did something on my property that could not be repaired/reversed. surprised city is unaware of what's going on-what would concern me since it's on a road that i'm guessing is older would be the potential that the city is going to try to pull an eminent domain maneuver to widen the road. that happened in a neighborhood we lived in-people across the street from us had yards of property taken over by the city for very little compensation with the justification that newer housing down the way necessitated wider lanes of traffic.

 

[OneOftheB's]

Why not -
Ask the surveyors?
Ask the county/town?
Ask the contractor?

I have asked the surveyor, at least 2 neighbors have spoken with the surveyor crews. No one has gotten an answer beyond “I was told to come here and mark these lines.” None of the crews trucks have any kind of company name, so calling an office isn’t possible.

I did call the city, was told they didn’t know why surveyors would be doing all that work and they are not aware of any issues.

We have no way to contact the developer- it’s changed hands from the original, there is no signage and when I spoke to the city I was told they would call me with contact info for the developer but I have not gotten that information.

 

[tvguy]

Both of the first two responses make sense. Just seems the developer is making sure to document all property lines and easements to make sure whatever they are doing is done correctly. I would think OP you would be happy they are being through.

 

[OneOftheB's]

something to do with easements maybe? if i were one of the property owners i would be finding out before someone did something on my property that could not be repaired/reversed. surprised city is unaware of what's going on-what would concern me since it's on a road that i'm guessing is older would be the potential that the city is going to try to pull an eminent domain maneuver to widen the road. that happened in a neighborhood we lived in-people across the street from us had yards of property taken over by the city for very little compensation with the justification that newer housing down the way necessitated wider lanes of traffic.

The new development does not access my road. Our road is a dead end, so widening it for more traffic isn’t likely. For the city to do anything to or with our road, 75% of the property owners would have to agree to annexation and there would be a public hearing.

The easement thing might have some legs. A portion of the shared property line between the new development and the 8 adjacent properties on my road runs along a creek. I wonder if someone got sloppy with property lines along the creek at some point

 

[barkley]

The easement thing might have some legs. A portion of the shared property line between the new development and the 8 adjacent properties on my road runs along a creek. I wonder if someone got sloppy with property lines along the creek at some point

or, since you mentioned one additional property across the road from the others also being marked-could there be an issue with the creek having some kind of protected status? there's the portion that is the creek that shares a property line but there could also be underground water that goes under your old existing road and under the property across the street. i know that's been a big issue for developments in some places.

 

[OneOftheB's]

Both of the first two responses make sense. Just seems the developer is making sure to document all property lines and easements to make sure whatever they are doing is done correctly. I would think OP you would be happy they are being through.

I’m sad to be so jaded, but I’ve worked with enough developers to go with my gut that no developer is going to pay for a survey crew to visit someone else’s property and mark lines, corners, etc no fewer than 8 times. I can’t believe that isn’t costing a pretty penny.

In full disclosure, I worked along side planning and zoning and building departments in my previous job. I was involved with more project development meetings than I care to think and even the best, most honest and ethical developers aren’t going to pay, repeatedly, for work on someone else’s property. Sure, they might have a surveyor recheck something on their property but to survey lines that are 100 ft or more and not congruent to their property doesn’t make financial sense.

My neighbor is a commercial builder and is also perplexed by this situation

 

[princesscinderella]

I also wonder if it has anything to do with utility lines being marked

 

[OneOftheB's]

or, since you mentioned one additional property across the road from the others also being marked-could there be an issue with the creek having some kind of protected status? there's the portion that is the creek that shares a property line but there could also be underground water that goes under your old existing road and under the property across the street. i know that's been a big issue for developments in some places.

That’s an interesting idea. The city lessened the 150ft undisturbed buffer the creek was to have had, per county regulations. The creek actually flows from a large pond in the development (the water originates from a spring and the pond acts as a catch basin for a ton of groundwater from the surrounding areas) then toward the back property lines of several of the properties on my road before continuing on to a third, unrelated property. The creek does not come within 100 ft of the asphalt road on which I live.

 

[OneOftheB's]

I also wonder if it has anything to do with utility lines being marked

No, the utilities on my road are not involved- gas and water are underground, cable, phone and electric are aerial and change sides of the road as the road curves. The utilities for the new development come into the development from the large feeder road that my road also turns off of, but the entrance, where the development’s utilities originate, is 1/2 mile from the turn onto my road.

 

[ronandannette]

I also wonder if it has anything to do with utility lines being marked

I'm in residential construction, so this isn't just a random theory. The spray paint is almost certainly underground utility locates. The flags may be elevation markers rather than property lines. The new projects (buildings) will need to be at the correct elevation levels both underground and above, when finished, in order to ensure the final grading facilitates the proper drainage both off those lots and protecting excess ground water from running onto adjacent lots. The elevations of the entire street need to work together to prevent any one lot from being flooded. It takes a ton of what seem like random reference points to do this properly.

Another "theory" is that the survey crews are specifically prohibited (by their employers) from giving any information to 3rd parties, even if they are adjacent homeowners. It just takes one guy saying the wrong thing or being misunderstood or misconstrued, to stir up a hornet's nest in a neighbourhood.

 

[tvguy]

I’m sad to be so jaded, but I’ve worked with enough developers to go with my gut that no developer is going to pay for a survey crew to visit someone else’s property and mark lines, corners, etc no fewer than 8 times. I can’t believe that isn’t costing a pretty penny.

In full disclosure, I worked along side planning and zoning and building departments in my previous job. I was involved with more project development meetings than I care to think and even the best, most honest and ethical developers aren’t going to pay, repeatedly, for work on someone else’s property. Sure, they might have a surveyor recheck something on their property but to survey lines that are 100 ft or more and not congruent to their property doesn’t make financial sense.

My neighbor is a commercial builder and is also perplexed by this situation

I bet the cost of all those surveys is less than litigating just one court case if a dispute came up. Just sounds like the developer, and maybe the lender and maybe other interested parties are just doing their due diligence. Lord knows there are enough court cases where both sides present differing survey results, so something in an era of GPS technology still isn't an exact science..

 

[OneOftheB's]

I'm in residential construction, so this isn't just a random theory. The spray paint is almost certainly underground utility locates. The flags may be elevation markers rather than property lines. The new projects (buildings) will need to be at the correct elevation levels both underground and above, when finished, in order to ensure the final grading facilitates the proper drainage both off those lots and protecting excess ground water from running onto adjacent lots. The elevations of the entire street need to work together to prevent any one lot from being flooded. It takes a ton of what seem like random reference points to do this properly.

Another "theory" is that the survey crews are specifically prohibited (by their employers) from giving any information to 3rd parties, even if they are adjacent homeowners. It just takes one guy saying the wrong thing or being misunderstood or misconstrued, to stir up a hornet's nest in a neighbourhood.

The spray paint is white arrows on the edge of the asphalt, the utilities are either overhead or underground in the rite of way. No utilities on my street run under the asphalt for 1000ft, they do cross perpendicular to the run of the street to service individual homes.

I understand how grade markers work & the necessity of their use, but these stakes are 100 ft plus, in most areas 500 ft plus from where the grading has occurred or where new homes will be located. To be clear, the stakes are on adjacent properties, in the front yards. The new development abuts the back property lines of these existing homes. The stakes, for the most part, mark the rite of way/front property line of these existing properties. If they are worried about run off or flooding on the existing properties that’s very concerning. Most of the stakes that were placed today are within 2-3 ft in elevation of the grade of the existing homes’ first floor and well above the basement level.

 

[MillauFr]

When you say "your road" do you actually own it? If so then there is no way they can work on it without your permission.

 

[GreatLakes]

This all sounds like underground utility mapping. If they are aerial now they could be getting ready to bury them. Just about any new construction will also be getting fiber, cable, or both run.

They are doing a lot of construction on the other side of the county line near my house. These are old farming fields turned into developments. The existing roads and houses had above ground utilities but they all got burried in anticipation of the new builds. Most new neighborhoods around here also get fiber internet with close homes getting the chance to upgrade as well.

Lastly if they are removing a lot of trees they might have to do some work with drainage for existing houses. The replacement of natural areas with concrete can really mess with natural water flow so they might be getting ready to mitigate some damage they are anticipating.

 

[MillauFr]

This all sounds like underground utility mapping. If they are aerial now they could be getting ready to bury them. Just about any new construction will also be getting fiber, cable, or both run.

Is any utility using Coaxial cable in 2022? Isn't that a dated technology? Not like they are running new copper wire phone services now either.

 

[Southernmiss]

Is it fiber optic internet?

We've had 3 different companies mark with paint, drop flags, tear up grass and disrupt our neighborhood to install their own fiber optic internet lines.

 

[GreatLakes]

Is any utility using Coaxial cable in 2022? Isn't that a dated technology? Not like they are running new copper wire phone services now either.

It depends on the area and the existing Telco infrastructure. If you swim upstream far enough it will be fiber but that isn't always what is run to the house. Even in the enterprise coax is used for failover.

Is it fiber optic internet?

We've had 3 different companies mark with paint, drop flags, tear up grass and disrupt our neighborhood to install their own fiber optic internet lines.

The more options the better. I only have fiber to the node where I am at the moment.

 

[OneOftheB's]

We have an answer! Those who thought utilities were correct. As I was leaving today, I noticed that writing had been added to the side of the stakes "forced main." After a bit of back and forth with a couple of neighbors, one received a call back from the county. Apparently the original plan for the sewer for the new development requires a lift station (which we knew about) but the original design for placement of the lift station and outflow won't work, so the water & sewer department is looking at moving the lift station to a different location, then obtaining easements on two properties on my road (one from the lift station, and one uphill back onto the development where the sewer line exits the property) and will install the forced sewer main along the rite of way on my road. I wish we could have negotiated something as our road is all on septic, with many homes still on wells. It would have been wonderful to get an upgraded water line that supports fire hydrants (currently not available on my road) and potentially sewer for homes that might want to connect.