What's Your Take on Airline Etiquette

aubriee

<font color=brown><marquee>Chocolate always makes
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Excuse me, isn't this stuff common sense?:confused3 Why do we need a news article about it?:rotfl: Who would stick gum in a magazine for the next person to find? I've never understood why the person sitting in row 26 has to put his carryon in the overhead above row 7.:mad: I also agree with this comment:

This problem is only going to get worse as more airlines charge a fee to check your suitcases. To that I say: Consider yourself lucky. Even with these fees, airfares are still significantly lower than they were just a year ago. Charging for checked baggage merely redistributes the appropriate costs to those who use the most space on the plane.


http://www.bing.com/travel/content/search?q=The+Ten+Commandments+of+Flying&cid=msn1064207&GT1=41000
 
I check my luggage so I don't have to deal with it. It is one suitcase. I don't feel the need to lug it onboard.

They need to start charging those that insist on jamming their stuff into the overhead bins to avoid the baggage charge. They should only allow personal items in the overhead bins.

I am tired of those people that bang their luggage into me as they are boarding or holding up boarding because they can't get their luggage in the overhead bins. Or as you mentioned they put it in a bin in the front of the plane while they are sitting in the back.
 
I really think there should be a fee for every bag brought to the airport. You get a personal item, that fits beneath the seat gratis. Then, for checked bags you get charged $25. For carryon bags, that need to be stored in the bins, you are charged $15, maybe $10. It's getting to the point of ridiculousness. The stuff that people are bringing onboard with them lately is completely out of hand. I try to get seats in front of the wing. My issue is that many times I have had to find a different bin simply because those around me are taken. Why? Those in the seats behind me have put their bags further to the front. Now, I can't say for sure if that is because they are just plain rude or if it's a case of those behind them taking the spaces so they now have to move their bags further down.
But, when you overhear a mother chatting with her dh at the airport about how they 'beat the system' by carrying on all their stuff, rather than check any bags..and then you see the huge bags each of them have, it boggles the mind. One family of four had....a huge carryon bag (at the limit or even larger), a huge tote bag for each person, and two shopping bags from WDW. I couldn't beleive that they were allowed to board with all that stuff. And to think I was worried about my underseat backpack and my smaller than regulation rolling duffle.

With the prevailing sense of entitlement nowadays, I think we are going to continue to see a lack of airline etiquette. Everyone thinks they're being nice and all....but their needs seem to come befoe everyone elses. It's that 'you first...right after me' mentality.
 
With the prevailing sense of entitlement nowadays, I think we are going to continue to see a lack of airline etiquette. Everyone thinks they're being nice and all....but their needs seem to come befoe everyone elses. It's that 'you first...right after me' mentality.

How do you get a sense of entitlement? You get away with breaking the rules in the first place. Whether it's on airlines with big check on bags or at Disney with pool hopping the reason why people feel entitled is because they know they will profit from it.

Why do you think people purposely pitch a hissy fit in public at the airline counter, sears or at disney. They know if they scream and holler they will get their way.

You know how to stop people from stuffing the overhead with gigantic bags? Say "excuse me Sir, ma'am that bag is not the regulated size for carryon, we will gladly help you check it but you will not be allowed ot board with it"

End of story.

I have no problem with the baggage fee and I'm a girl who travels like she belongs on Cleopatras barge. I don't like the fees but I fully accept that to travel the way I'm use to I must pay it. I just think every one should follow the rules.
 

Excuse me, isn't this stuff common sense?:confused3 Why do we need a news article about it?:rotfl:
Um, why does the Transportation Board exist? :rolleyes1

Seriously, though - how many times do people get in a hissy fit when they are told that their carry on is too big, that packing water may damage other people's things, or some other simple breach of common sense?

It may seem like common sense or something that most learned in kindergarten, but there are a large number of people who think that the rules don't apply to them. (Yet many of them also want everyone ELSE to play by those rules, so long as they don't have to do so)

We see it here, and we see it in real life.

'The rules are the rules' is a statement which irks many people. I honestly don't understand it either. But I do think that we may have two new CLOTs on board! :)
 
And the majority of readers here also seem to disagree with this statement, although it is a fact. Airfares are less than they were TWENTY years ago in America!

This problem is only going to get worse as more airlines charge a fee to check your suitcases. To that I say: Consider yourself lucky. Even with these fees, airfares are still significantly lower than they were just a year ago. Charging for checked baggage merely redistributes the appropriate costs to those who use the most space on the plane.
 
i don't really disagree with anything you said, and in general, I don't expect courtesy from other travellers, and I'm surprised when I see it.

However, when a service that has been provided as part of the ticket price (baggage) is suddenly an extra charge, people will try to game the system. If they could, airlines would probably charge a $5 "tray" fee, or a $2 "restroom" fee (why should people who aren't using the restroom or trays subsidize those who do)?

I would gladly pay a movie theater $3 or $4 for a bag of popcorn. But $6.50-$7? Really? I could buy a 10 pound bag of popcorn for that, come on!

Why do so many people have water shipped to their hotel? Because that $0.25 bottle of water is marked up 10x and you know you're getting hosed on that $2.50 purchase.

If, as a company, it's pretty clear you're trying to screw your customer, then your customers will look for ways around it. And when it comes to travel, that usually inconveniences other travelers around you.

Just my $0.02, which I'll be glad to sell you for a quarter.
 
I don't think that the American airlines are trying to 'screw' their customers. I think that they have been reading here for a decade and realise that if they raise their fares even by a few dollars the public will resist. They have no choice but to find other ways to try and slow the bleeding of revenue.

MANY readers here insist that the US carriers are 'gouging' and are rolling in money, even when we post facts to the contrary.

It is still better than a few going out of business, with the related job loss and higher fares as a result.
 
Airfares are less than they were TWENTY years ago in America!

Although that's true, they're not cheaper than last year, not here in Rochester, NY.

And although it's true, I don't think it means we should be falling to our knees and thanking the airlines for only charging us $23 for an extra bag, or only $50 because our bag was 52 pounds.

If my overnight delivery from Amazon is a week late, I'm not grateful that pony express used to take a lot longer.

I'm not advocating rule breaking. But bringing a carry on that fits the airlines requirements, and putting it 10 rows away from you because that's the only spot, isn't breaking any rules. It's not the most courteous, but... see my previous post.
 
I don't think that the American airlines are trying to 'screw' their customers. I think that they have been reading here for a decade and realise that if they raise their fares even by a few dollars the public will resist. They have no choice but to find other ways to try and slow the bleeding of revenue.

That's kind of the definition of screwing. "We realize we need to charge $25 more per seat for this flight, but we can't make it obvious, so we'll slap on a 'baggage convenience fee.'" Just be transparent and people will appreciate it. Try to be sneaky about extra fees and you don't build up much loyalty.

I agree that the airlines are in major financial trouble, and far from rolling in cash. But much like the automakers, their problems are of their own making. Hefty contracts negotiated with the unions and aging fleets make it very difficult to make money in the best of times.
 
I don't agree.

Who is exempt from bag fees? The customers who are loyal to the carrier or to the alliance, not the customers who are loyal to price.

And while you may not see fares on your particular route drop, they HAVE dropped overall. I am waiting to board a flight for a US transcon which I fly all the time, and which is now $22 lower than last year (same time, same carrier, same route)
 
Let me give another example (and elizak I am singling you out because it is a real life one, and because I don't think that you will throw a hissy fit just yet)

Elizak is trying to find a fare to Europe under $1,000. I will be flying a similar route on vacation, but I know that my fare will be around $2,000 because I am going to have to book last minute and that I will be looking for an upgradeable fare.

I am fine with paying $1,000 more than elizak, based on our patterns, our needs, and the business model of the airline.

But why should I have to pay a portion of moving her barge overseas, when my fare already subsidizes her fare? It is her choice to take a barge, and even though some of us may not agree (or don't want to see her stuck in a metro gate, or getting a sore back), it is still her choice to take those bags.

I am perfectly fine with elizak paying less, and perfectly fine with elizak taking those bags. I am NOT fine with paying even more to subsidize her packing habits, as one of the most loyal, most high-revenue customers to that airline.

The US carriers have moved to a pay per use system, and while many may not agree, many are fine with that.
 
I don't agree.

Who is exempt from bag fees? The customers who are loyal to the carrier or to the alliance, not the customers who are loyal to price.

And while you may not see fares on your particular route drop, they HAVE dropped overall. I am waiting to board a flight for a US transcon which I fly all the time, and which is now $22 lower than last year (same time, same carrier, same route)

The US carriers have moved to a pay per use system, and while many may not agree, many are fine with that.

I've got to agree with Bavaria on these points. I usually fly to WDW several times a year and normally fly Air Tran, simply because they are the cheapest. The only other airline that flies to MCO from DFW direct is American Airlines. If American could beat Air Tran I'd go with them. I don't fly enough to get frequent flyer miles, so yes I go with the cheapest airline that will get me to where I'm going. I am not particularly loyal to any of them. I have no problem though with them giving their frequent fliers perks that I don't get.

Like Bavaria I've noticed air fare slowly coming down. Even though DFW has only two airlines that fly direct to MCO, they do have to compete with each other. A year ago I'd wait until airfare dropped to around $220.00 and then grab it, knowing it was about as low as it was going to get. The last three times I've bought airfare I've paid $198.00, $196.00, and $188.40. This is for the exact same flights on Air Tran (#916 and #917), that were always over $220.00 last year. Just two weeks ago I bought airfare for my upcoming May trip for $188.40. I don't think I've ever gotten it that cheap.

I also have no problem paying just for the services you use. If you don't want to pay baggage fees, pack lighter, wash clothes during your trip, and use carry on only (legal size of course:snooty:), but if you want to carry everything but the kitchen sink (cases of water and air mattresses) then don't expect others to pay the same as you. Let's say you have someone that carries a heavy 62" checked bag, a 23" carryon that is so heavy she must have help and it must be squished into the over head bin and then prised out of there when she gets to her destination, plus she has a huge tote that must also go in the overhead bin, because it's too big to go under her feet, then she also tries to bring on a huge WDW shopping bag that must also be squeezed into the overhead. In other words she has a big heavy bag underneath the plane, plus she's taking up three slots in the overhead with her huge carry on, heavy tote, and big shopping bag. Then sitting next to her you have a traveler carrying only a light 20" carry on and a small tote that easily fits under their seat. Why should the second lady pay the same amount as the first? She is not taking up near the space or taking near the time loading that the first lady is, plus her bags weigh alot less. Sorry, but I have no problem with the current bag fees and agree with a previous poster that airlines should start charging a fee for anything that has to go in the overheads,as well as underneath the plane. People would pack lighter, planes would weigh less, so use less fuel, and planes would load alot faster.

I do think that you should only be allowed to use the overhead space that's over your seat. If three people are sitting on that side, then there is room for three carry ons to go in wheels first. Each person should have a right to 1/3 of that space. That way everyone would have space for their carryons even if everyone on the plane used a legal size carry on. No one should have to search for a space.
 
Excuse me, isn't this stuff common sense?:confused3
I would avoid trying to serve an assertion by referring to it as "common" sense. The vast majority of times I see the term "common" sense used, I see it used to defend an assertion that one's own personal beliefs and values are concepts that "are" (or at least "should be") adhered to be everyone, instead of just those folks who choose to subscribe to those personal beliefs. In a way, assertions of what is "common" sense are nothing more than assertions that "everyone should agree with me" and that people who disagree are thereby, in some way, morally or ethically defective. This belies one of the few true concepts that qualify as "common" sense: The Golden Rule, i.e., the sense that we should each treat each other as we would have ourselves be treated. There are very few, if any, people who would deny the logic of The Golden Rule. However, one inescapable realization derived from The Golden Rule is that if you don't want someone else's beliefs and values imposed on you, then you must never seek to impose your own beliefs and values onto others.

"Common sense" is not the only term that is abused in this manner. All its synonyms and derivatives are similarly abused, including etiquette.

We can talk about which aspects of the set of rules set forth in the article we personally agree with. We can even assert that some of them are "common" sense, but if they are common sense then there wouldn't be any significant disagreement about them, and as such there would be not much interest in discussing them. If there is significant disagreement, you can readily conclude that the element of etiquette is not common sense, but rather a rule that perhaps many people like, and perhaps even like to impose on others, in violation, perhaps, of the Golden Rule.

Who would stick gum in a magazine for the next person to find?
I think you can make a good argument for that one being truly "common" sense. I cannot imagine anyone, not even the gum-chewer, who would say that doing that is reasonable conduct.

Except there might be a good explanation. Very often in the past (though not so much anymore) the announcement pointing you towards the magazine has indicated that it is there for you to take with you if you wish. The airlines actually had, as part of the routine overnight cleaning of the aircraft, a step whereby the magazines in the seat pockets were replenished. This may be a surprise to some folks, but that was the original intention of the magazine, and they even hoped that some folks would like the magazine so much that they'd actually subscribe. Many of us older folks remember those days, and some still perhaps think of the magazine as their own, and so having used it, they perhaps intended to discard it with their used gum but forgot. Wasteful conduct? Yes. However, given their assumptions about the magazine begin intended for their own personal use, something which, to this day, we cannot say that the airlines have ever revoked, not necessarily evil conduct.

And this reminds me of something that comes up quite often in the mud-slinging threads regarding men giving up their seat to women, on the Disney Transportation buses -- the very critical and valid point is often made that you cannot, just by looking, understand what physical limitations a seated man may have, and so judging him poorly because he doesn't give up his seat is doubly wrong, first, because you are imposing your own beliefs and values on him, and second, you might be wrong about his physical condition.

I've never understood why the person sitting in row 26 has to put his carryon in the overhead above row 7.:mad:
I don't bring carry-ons on-board anymore that would go into the overhead compartment, for just this reason -- I check all much larger pieces and bring fewer bags and fewer clothes if necessary. However, to help you understand this personal situation, quite often when you get back to row 26, it is possible that all the overhead compartments are already full. Generally, savvy travelers know to look down the aircraft toward your row, and aim to put your larger baggage in the last overhead before your row, for which you can see that it has enough room. Sometimes (especially when a lot of families pre-board), you really perhaps cannot see a suitable overhead compartment anywhere between row 7 and row 26, since aircraft are loaded from back to front. What is very clear (and the airlines say this repeatedly), but what a lot of folks, when it convenient for them, choose to ignore, is that the overhead are shared space... shared with everyone in your compartment, not just your row. There are rows that have no overheads, and rows for which the overheads are used for on-board equipment or crew bags. The sense of entitlement regarding "your" overhead is actually a reflection of poor etiquette, as defined by the rules we all agree to when we purchase airline tickets. So here you see an example of where something that you thought was "wrong" could actually have been okay, and the assertion that it was "wrong" was actually wrong, itself.

This problem is only going to get worse as more airlines charge a fee to check your suitcases.
I really think that the right answer to this is to charge for every piece you carry, and you have to declare before your flight exactly what pieces you'll carry-on. I would love to see FedEx and UPS open up offices in the lobbies of every sizable airport in the country, and the rules and processes changes to effectively feed lots of business to FedEx and UPS, carrying items that used to be carried aboard flights. That's just my personal preference, though. I wouldn't consider it proper etiquette or "common" sense.
 
Sorry, but I have no problem with the current bag fees and agree with a previous poster that airlines should start charging a fee for anything that has to go in the overheads,as well as underneath the plane. People would pack lighter, planes would weigh less, so use less fuel, and planes would load alot faster.

Well, if I weigh 165 lbs, and someone next to me weighs 300lbs, should they pay more? Or should I be allowed to bring bags weighing 145 lbs for free?

Slippery slope...
 
We just got back from Las Vegas. On the outbound flight, a person managed to get a GUITAR on as a carryon. A GUITAR!! :sad2:

The flight attendant was slightly miffed and let him know that it needs to be checked next time.

I am trying to figure out HOW in the WORLD did he manage to get that GUITAR past the boarding gate!!! :sad2:

It took up an entire shelf on the plane.

I am a nice kind of flyer - I leave my magazines for the next person to discover and don't bug the flight attendants.

The only thing I do that may irritate them is ask for my soda in a can instead of in a glass. The can does not slosh all over the place in the event of turbulance.
 
... a person managed to get a GUITAR on as a carryon. A GUITAR!! :sad2:

The flight attendant was slightly miffed and let him know that it needs to be checked next time.

I am trying to figure out HOW in the WORLD did he manage to get that GUITAR past the boarding gate!!! :sad2:

It took up an entire shelf on the plane..
There needs to be special dispensation (not necessarily free) for unusual baggage items and unusual circums5tances.

One airline I flew on recently helped out someone with a picture frame a little bigger than carry-on baggage normally allowed; their system had you get a special tag (fluorescent orange in their case) that let the FA know that the GA had authorized that oversized item.
 
I would gladly pay a movie theater $3 or $4 for a bag of popcorn. But $6.50-$7? Really? I could buy a 10 pound bag of popcorn for that, come on!

Why do so many people have water shipped to their hotel? Because that $0.25 bottle of water is marked up 10x and you know you're getting hosed on that $2.50 purchase.

If, as a company, it's pretty clear you're trying to screw your customer, then your customers will look for ways around it.
Viewing things very narrowly with regard to one's own personal advantage, like that, I think we all can readily see how folks can come to such a one-sided, off-kilter conclusion.

I think what often gets overlooked -- or perhaps better put, deliberately ignored -- is that the movie theater is providing a service, and deliberately structuring their pricing so as to capitalize (the word means, literally, "make into money") the captive market that their service creates. There are even deeper realities underlying this, such as the fact that movie houses have to pass most of their front-door take to the movie distributors, so their profit comes almost exclusively from the excessive revenues they generate from concession sales.

To be fair, consumers aren't obligated to see things from other points-of-view. The issue only comes up, truly, when consumers try to justify transgressive actions that they take. In the movie theater example, more and more theaters are adopting the rule, which actually has been in effect, incidentally, at WDW for years: "No outside food." With that rule in effect, there is no justification, whatsoever, for, for example, bringing your own popcorn or candy in. You have the option to not purchase anything from the concession stand, of course, but there is no defensible justification for violating a rule of the theater, not even your own exhortation that the mark-up on the food they sell is "too high" in your opinion.

The water situation is interesting. Shipping water to the hotels is currently permitted. However, note that in some cases a fee is being charged. I wouldn't be surprised to see that become a more consistent thing. Disney absolutely sees value in capitalizing (again "make into money") on their captive audience, and if there is a lot of exploitation of the fact that they don't have rules or fee-walls in place, to protect that capitalization, then we shouldn't be surprised if they put such rules or fee-walls in place, nor begrudge them doing so. Nor should we feel at all entitled to transgress around those things, because we're unhappy with them. Our choice, as always, is to do without, if we're not happy with what is offered. We have no "right" to cheap popcorn at movie theaters or cheap water at WDW.
 
That's kind of the definition of screwing.
That's not the way most people read the word. To most people, it implies that someone is doing something wrong. Presenting your product or service, and its pricing, in the best possible light, is a basic rule of consumer marketing. It is not, in any way, nefarious. Casting such a gross, negative light on these reasonable practices defiles those who are adversely affected by what are actually nefarious business practices, such as fraud. There is a very clear line draw by our society, and it is drawn that clearly so there need be no mistaken "screwing" customer versus responsibly operating a business.

Just be transparent and people will appreciate it.
Incorrect. The American consumer is notorious for being attracted to a low price like a moth to a bug zapper. The current situation, where customer service is a shadow of what it once was, in practically every aspect of our society, comes at least in part from the consumers' maniacal preference for low prices over high quality, thereby rewarding companies that cut costs while systematically failing to incentive higher quality.

Consumers used to be loyal to suppliers. They used to concern themselves with quality and with the reliable relationship they had, and didn't react as directly when a competitor came into town offering almost the same thing for lower price. Those days are gone. Consumers think that agreeing to buy something at a deep discount is "loyalty", when the reality is that consumers who shop around, cherry-picking the loss-leaders from each supplier, are the epitome of disloyalty as defined by business.
 
Well, if I weigh 165 lbs, and someone next to me weighs 300lbs, should they pay more? Or should I be allowed to bring bags weighing 145 lbs for free?

Slippery slope...

this has always been what I don't get.
I am 123 pounds. I pack 50 pounds worth of bags. That's a total of 173 pounds.

Once I was 5 pounds over the limit and got charged $125 for it. BUT my 5 pound overage only made the total amount that I was placing on the plane 178 pounds. Which is A LOT less than many people who are heavier than me and then bring in their 50 pound bags on top of that.

Didn't seem all that fair to me...
 














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