What's your indoor snapshot solution?

[MikeandReneePlus5]

I am still learning - trying to get better in all areas (and having a blast btw )

But I have the hardest time getting pictures I am satisfied with when it is say, a group around my kitchen table, or a casual family birthday cake time when everyone gathers around the cake.

I don't have a flash - and I don't want to use the onboard flash (on my T2i). i also don't want to go ISO 3200/6400.

So I figured I need to use a fast lens -

I have a 50 mm 1.8 prime that is plenty fast in low light but a) DOF is a problem and b) sometimes you can only back up so much to get everyone in a shot.

I have a 17-55mm 2.8 but again with the DOF (e.g. our table is huge...like 12 feet long. If I want everyone in focus I don't enough DOF wide open when I am 8 to 10 feet away....). Also...I get shutter speeds 1/30 to 1/60 even wide open and I really think that's too low??? Becauue I wind up with tons of soft focus that must be motion blur.

White balance used to drive me nuts also but I largely solved that problem using the custom setting.

Any advice or solutions you care to share? Am I the only one?

Thanks!

 

[Hockeyman]

Move the table closer to a window jk lol

Joking aside I had a 50mm f/1.8 I ended up selling since I found the 50mm was too close for situations like you are describing, I still do have a 35mm f/1.8 I use from time to time. And believe me, you are not the only one, we all go thru the same thing or have at one point or another.

You will need to decrease the aperture so you can get a longer depth of field. May have to add some lighting kitchen or what ever room you plan on taking pictures in. Also if you do decide to get up there with the ISO you can get rid of some of the noise in post processing depending on what programs you use.

 

[MikeandReneePlus5]

Thanks Hockeyman.

so what do you do in those situations?

I guess I just need to get it so I have shutter speed at least 80 or 100...one way or another.....

or buy an external flash.

 

[photo_chick]

I go with fast lenses and I'm not afraid of putting the ISO up to 3200, or even 6400 when necessary. I always keep the lowest ISO possible, but if I need to go higher to get a clear shot I will. Learn to process with the noise instead of fighting it and you may be happier shooting in lower light situations. I know I was once I stopped fighting what is an inherent part of the medium.

A wider option... The Sigma 30mm f/1.4 is a sweet lens for indoor work with a crop body. It's wide enough for most things, sharp, and most importantly fast.

Also keep in mind that depth of field isn't just determined by aperture. A shorter focal length will give you more DoF, as will positioning yourself farther away from your subjects (when possible).

The 8-12 feet you mentioned should be enough to get ok depth of field with the 50mm f/1.8 for a small group even when the aperture is wide open if you get them all close to the same plane of focus and your focus is dead on (it won't be if you pixel peep but will be for smaller print size and web viewing). I think hitting the focus just right where a lot of people miss, because the nifty fifty does have some problems focusing accurately and it hunts big time in low light. It is after all the lowest priced lens Canon sells. As far as motion blur... everyone is a little different on how slow they can get away with and the weight of the camera can come into play as well. I can get down to 1/15 with no motion blur if I'm still and the subject is still when I've got the lens on my old Rebel. But I can only reliably get down to 1/60 (sometimes 1/30, but that's iffy) in the same situation with my 50D because the body is heavier so I've got a tad more camera shake.

A good bit of the low light work in my smugmug gallery (link in my sig) was shot with the 50mm f/1.8.

 

[wbeem]

It sounds like your issue is quality of light, rather than quantity of light. A faster lens in bad light will just give you a shorter shutter speed - with bad light.

The advice about moving closer to a windows is a great first step. You can see the direction of the light and it's often oft & flattering - assuming you're taking shots indoors during the day.

There are a LOT of potential answers, but the best thing to do is post some of your pictures that you find dissatisfying. Then perhaps we can give you more specific suggestions.

 

[MikeandReneePlus5]

good stuff Photo Chick....lots to chew on.

It isn't really quality of light...and these are snapshots and memories so I just want them properly focused and exposed.

I was just wondering what others do in those situations (i.e. do most use external flash for example, or crank up the ISO).

 

[mom2rtk]

I still struggle with this as well. I have been more prone lately to cranking up the ISO to 3200 on my T2i then using the noise reduction in LR3.

I think when I say I struggle with it, I mean I have been unable to find a "one size fits all" solution. And I'm coming to realize that's because there isn't one. Sometimes there's enough light I opt to go with a fast lens and no flash. Sometimes I can tell there's not enough light, so I use the flash, but dial down the power a bit.

 

[Hockeyman]

good stuff Photo Chick....lots to chew on.

It isn't really quality of light...and these are snapshots and memories so I just want them properly focused and exposed.

I was just wondering what others do in those situations (i.e. do most use external flash for example, or crank up the ISO).

I hardly use my flash at all

I had a similar situation early in May at Chef Mickeys, we were all the way in the back with not the greatest lighting. I used a Tamron 17-50mm f/2.8 and had to battle with settings the whole time tying to get clear shots of my kids and characters in constant motion. I think I started with adjusting the shutter speed so I wouldnt get motion blur and then adjusted the ISO and Aperture around that. I did end up with a bunch of noise in some but like Photo_chick mentioned, you learn to work around it or try to fix it in post processing. I think that whole breakfast I had more misses than hits, It wasnt pretty lol. Had to juggle 2 toddlers with food and all while trying to eat and adjust the camera in between the characters visiting our table lol . Also take some test shot before hand of the environment or before the birthday cake comes out so you can adjust as needed and not have to do while everything is going on.

 

[MikeandReneePlus5]

I hardly use my flash at all

I had a similar situation early in May at Chef Mickeys, we were all the way in the back with not the greatest lighting. I used a Tamron 17-50mm f/2.8 and had to battle with settings the whole time tying to get clear shots of my kids and characters in constant motion. I think I started with adjusting the shutter speed so I wouldnt get motion blur and then adjusted the ISO and Aperture around that. I did end up with a bunch of noise in some but like Photo_chick mentioned, you learn to work around it or try to fix it in post processing. I think that whole breakfast I had more misses than hits, It wasnt pretty lol. Had to juggle 2 toddlers with food and all while trying to eat and adjust the camera in between the characters visiting our table lol . Also take some test shot before hand of the environment or before the birthday cake comes out so you can adjust as needed and not have to do while everything is going on.

haha...this really made me

and in my case it would involve (perhaps) some spousal looks that say "just take the darn pictures and stop fiddling with that thing...."

I'm gonna try higher ISO. I got so afraid of ISO higher than 400/800...but it seems cameras are much better at handling ISO noise now and as you guys point out pp can help a lot....

 

[handicap18]

Suck it up and use the flash. If you want to capture the memories of a family gathering don't let your ego get in the way. Using the flash is not a bad thing. Granted, the on board flash isn't the best, but I'd rather use it than have no everyone in focus because I'm using a wide aperture or have the picture to dark because there wasn't enough light.

I don't like using the popup flash, but if you don't have a speedlight then the popup is the only thing you can use. Its a tool, not a death sentence.

If you have a group of people, use the popup. You can dial down the amount of flash, I like to drop it to -2. This way its not as harsh, it allows you to use a decent f/stop to get everyone in focus and gives you enough light to give a good exposure and an excellent photograph of a memorable event.

You can buy a $20 popup flash diffuser which makes using the popup more bearable. Gary Fong makes one. I carry it in my camera bag. Its small, but works well.

Seriously, don't stress about the popup flash. If you get a better image with it, then its not a bad thing. Use it for what its worth, a tool. Use it when its needed. Don't' miss a shot because some people think its a terrible thing that never should have been invented. Don't get caught up in the mess. Use the popup.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

I am still learning - trying to get better in all areas (and having a blast btw )

But I have the hardest time getting pictures I am satisfied with when it is say, a group around my kitchen table, or a casual family birthday cake time when everyone gathers around the cake.

I don't have a flash - and I don't want to use the onboard flash (on my T2i). i also don't want to go ISO 3200/6400.

So I figured I need to use a fast lens -

I have a 50 mm 1.8 prime that is plenty fast in low light but a) DOF is a problem and b) sometimes you can only back up so much to get everyone in a shot.

I have a 17-55mm 2.8 but again with the DOF (e.g. our table is huge...like 12 feet long. If I want everyone in focus I don't enough DOF wide open when I am 8 to 10 feet away....). Also...I get shutter speeds 1/30 to 1/60 even wide open and I really think that's too low??? Becauue I wind up with tons of soft focus that must be motion blur.

White balance used to drive me nuts also but I largely solved that problem using the custom setting.

Any advice or solutions you care to share? Am I the only one?

I'm assuming you don't want to use the onboard flash because it's harsh?

I don't normally take a lot of pictures indoors around a table - but - I have found myself in those situations a few times, primarily at parties, and often at night with indoor lighting.

The best results I've gotten were inadvertent because I didn't have my external flash with me. I used a 25mm f/2.8 pancake lens with a tissue over the onboard flash to soften it. I was able to get soft, mostly blur free images even though an active party game was being played.

The other thing I do if I'm at home and it's just a quick snapshot is to crank up all the lights in the house as much as I can, or move the party I'm shooting under the brightest light possible.

I think that experience tends to help us out in these situations. Going by little things you've learned here and there, your gut, and sometimes the seat of your pants - like when you forget things, lol. So it will get better as you keep learning.

I'm not trying to be facetious, but other solutions might be keeping a point and shoot camera handy for these types of shots or going outside for a group shot if you aren't able to get images you're happy with yet or you're getting really frustrated. You will more than likely be able to get them more easily when you have improved your skill and your gear bag a bit.

A general rule that I live by is to have light work for me rather than against me, when possible. Obviously, this isn't for everyone, and for someone highly skilled it won't matter as much (or for someone who uses flash ALL the time.) Always keep your exposure triangle in mind as you're shooting.

BTW I use a camera system that typically, more so years ago, had a weakness of high ISO performance (along with a lot of strong points, including excellent glass). In a way it was good for me, because it forced me to learn to get good shots at low ISO using other things available to me. In some ways it was more of a challenge than it would have been to just crank up the ISO (which there is nothing wrong with, if that works for you). So don't feel badly if you have to work to learn how to get the shots you want. It may take a while, but through trial and error, you will figure it out.

 

[zackiedawg]

I don't have a flash - and I don't want to use the onboard flash (on my T2i). i also don't want to go ISO 3200/6400.

Unfortunately this is going to continue to be the root of your problem. No matter how fast the lens, there will still be times indoors when there is simply not enough light. The only way to get around that is to introduce more light (flash) or crank the sensitivity of the camera way up (high ISO). If you don't want to do either of those things, you're stuck! Buying an external flash unit can certainly improve the control over the flash and the quality of the light, but even with the built-in flash, there are ways to avoid the harshness - homemade bounce cards held onto the flash with an elastic band, or softeners stuck over the flash like white film canisters, latex gloves, even a Kleenex in a pinch.

I have a 50 mm 1.8 prime that is plenty fast in low light but a) DOF is a problem and b) sometimes you can only back up so much to get everyone in a shot.

Exactly the problem. I love shooting flashless in low light with superfast lenses - but I do so knowing the depth of field will be razor thin - trying to shoot a portrait that way can be very difficult. It can be done, but takes more work and artistic control.

Post processing can help - you can reduce noise that results from high ISO. Newer cameras with newer sensors have improved high ISO performance - but that would mean buying a new camera...only something to recommend if you have the funds and the desire, and really will use and need that extra high ISO improvement often. An external flash has much more control over the quality and direction of the light it throws compared to a popup, but of course that too is an extra purchase, and to be honest, external flashes really do require a tiny bit of learning to get the best out of them. Pick your poison!

 

[MikeandReneePlus5]

so excellent...so many great posts of info and helpfulness!

I will say that the pics I am taking now are light years better than what I took before I invested the $ in a DSLR system (and the time to learn how to use it). So frustration is not at critical levels...

And now I've got a new bag of tricks to play around with!

to the post encouraging use of the onboard flash

just kidding! but man....it is true that thing is hated by so many...and I understand why....but as you pointed out....good to remember it can be used as a tool and needn't be 100% excluded.

 

[mom2rtk]

OP.... do you have a processing program with a good noise reduction feature?

If not, that would be right up there with an external flash as something you'll want to get soon.

I use 3200 ISO sometimes, but I wouldn't do so without noise reduction in post processing.

 

[mom2rtk]

If you really want to embrace the flash, check out Bryan Peterson's "Understanding Flash Photography". I've read it a couple times but still have far to go.

I embraced flash photography at Disney long ago. I see character shots all the time where no flash was used and I love the quality. But I still use my flash (although dialed down). Those shots are just too precious for me to take a chance on trying something new. And honestly, the action is too fast (with the character just there for a few moments) to try out anything new.

I did team photos for my daughters basketball team a couple years ago. I bounced my flash and was very happy with the results. But I had time to put my daughter out there and test out my settings and adjust my flash. That's just going to happen at a character meal for me.

 

[MikeandReneePlus5]

OP.... do you have a processing program with a good noise reduction feature?

If not, that would be right up there with an external flash as something you'll want to get soon.

I use 3200 ISO sometimes, but I wouldn't do so without noise reduction in post processing.

Right now I just use the Canon DPP. It does have ISO reduction, though I have no idea if it qualifies as "good" ISO reduction...

 

[Hockeyman]

haha...this really made me

and in my case it would involve (perhaps) some spousal looks that say "just take the darn pictures and stop fiddling with that thing...."

I'm gonna try higher ISO. I got so afraid of ISO higher than 400/800...but it seems cameras are much better at handling ISO noise now and as you guys point out pp can help a lot....

Luckily my wife wasnt throwing some hurry ups at me lol, she knows im good about snapping away when the characters are at our table.

Dont be afraid to raise that ISO and fix it later in post. I use Lightroom as my main program to edit and organize and it has a great noise reduction feature.

Also anyone know if you shoot in JPEG verses RAW if that would make a difference in this low light situation with the noise?

 

[mom2rtk]

Also anyone know if you shoot in JPEG verses RAW if that would make a difference in this low light situation with the noise?

I was going to make that very suggestion.

I shoot in RAW and have saved many a low light shot with the latitude I have to fix things shot in RAW. It also allows for you to shoot slightly underexposed if you have to in order to achieve a fast enough shutter speed to avoid blur....... but then bring the exposure back up in post.

 

[MikeandReneePlus5]

I was going to make that very suggestion.

I shoot in RAW and have saved many a low light shot with the latitude I have to fix things shot in RAW. It also allows for you to shoot slightly underexposed if you have to in order to achieve a fast enough shutter speed to avoid blur....... but then bring the exposure back up in post.

re: blur...

I know you have the 17-55mm 2.8....

what speeds to you try and get up to to avoid blur? I know it's subjective somewhat and depends on focal length and hand steadiness but just generally.

I have trouble staying sharp at 1/60 and slower....which is really my whole problem actually because that's the speeds I get in these situations in my particular house around dinner/dusk/late afternoon when these things are usually occuring...after I lock ISO at 800 or below and open up to 4 or 2.8 generally. I started to wonder if it was my lens.....

 

[photo_chick]

Suck it up and use the flash. If you want to capture the memories of a family gathering don't let your ego get in the way. Using the flash is not a bad thing. Granted, the on board flash isn't the best, but I'd rather use it than have no everyone in focus because I'm using a wide aperture or have the picture to dark because there wasn't enough light.

I agree that there are times when you do just need to get over it and use the flash. Sometimes your equipment won't let you get what you want without the flash. Sometimes flash is best for the look you want. However, there are times when using the flash will kill the shot you want. Like when the birthday candles are being blown out or when your kid finally gets over his fear of sparklers. But the choice should be about getting the look you want, not about fear or ego. Some photographers do avoid flash simply because they don't know how to use it well (I admit was one of those for years). So yeah, don't tie a hand behind your back out of the notion that flash photography is evil. It's just another tool. There are times when you do need to use it.

I was going to make that very suggestion.

I shoot in RAW and have saved many a low light shot with the latitude I have to fix things shot in RAW. It also allows for you to shoot slightly underexposed if you have to in order to achieve a fast enough shutter speed to avoid blur....... but then bring the exposure back up in post.

I have to push the exposure like this often when I'm using my 70-210 f/4 for dance (its a lot like the idea of pushing film). But there is that trade off with noise. It pops up really fast when you do this so keep that in mind. But clear shot vs. noise... the clear shot will win with me every time. Noise I can deal with, blur I can't.