What's your diagnosis?

[MonorailMan]

This story has several layers to it, and is going to get a bit long, so save yourself if you're not up for it.

I have a friend (let's just call hims "Dean") whom I've known for close to 6 years. We get together for dinner once a week or once every couple of weeks. He's starting to drive me nuts. Here's the problem.....

The man is 35 years old, and he's still living at home with his parents. He makes a really good living, but still chooses to live at home. He tried moving out once a few years ago, but his roommate apparently "duped" him financially and he was devastated by this. Dean only lived in the apartment for 1 month before returning back to his parents' house. I've brought this up a couple times and he said that he doesn't want to move out again because the last time he did he became sooooooo depressed and he couldn't deal with it. He's also made it very clear that it's a subject he doesn't want to talk about regularly because he tends to get ticked off when his other friends bring it up.

A couple nights ago he decided to introduce me to the group of people he refers to as his "Friday Night Friends". It's a group of people who all meet up for dinner and then coffee on Friday nights. To my surprise, I was introduced to about 10 people that night. Here's where it gets a bit weird. All of these people were gay men in their early to mid-60s, all of whom seemed nice, but extremely "out of touch" with both regular topics and gay-related ones. After talking with these guys I finally realized that they all stayed at home most of the time and/or hated gay culture/lifestyle/bars, etc. etc., much the same way Dean does.

A few years ago Dean tried dating a guy who was a drag queen. He's told me repeatedly that he hates drag queens and doesn't understand them.........so.....why on earth would he date one? I'm sure you can imagine why this relationship ended. Dean's story is very different from the way that I saw it, but I tend to believe it ended because he wouldn't support what the drag queen did since he refused to go to any of his shows, etc. I'm sure the fact that he lived with his parents, who are apparently not so fond of him being gay, was another reason it didn't last.

I like this guy........but I tend to think he's never going to have a successful relationship until he moves out of his parents' house and gets his head out of his rear end. He's also got one of those demeanors that makes his seem like a ticking time bomb......you know what I'm talking about: Like one of those high school nerds who gets picked on so much that they finally just "lose it" and start shooting people.

I tend to think his parents have him convinced that gay people are not good. When I asked him the other night if he'd ever consider moving to the neighborhood where I live, he flat-out said, "Um....no way in Hell. I don't want to have to deal with all those gay people 24/7." (My neighborhood has a lot of gay people living here. I'd wager a guess that about 50% of the homes on my street are owned by gay men.) Not only did his comment tick me off, it also kind of made me feel bad for him.

Dean has just been bothering me lately, to the point where I'm not sure if I can keep going with our friendship. He's gotten a "holier-than-thou" attitude, where he always seems to think he's right about everything.

Sorry for the rant.....this is just annoying me. What do you guys think?

 

[jackskellingtonsgirl]

I don't think there is enough bandwidth on the DIS to sort this out.

He sounds like he has lots of issues. Depression, some sort of security thing with not wanting to leave his parents' home, some self-loathing thing, some denial, added to the fact that he doesn't seem to interpret reality appropriately.

Hmm. Did his parents abuse him? Or do they still? At least verbally/emotionally? Because I know women who have suffered verbal/emotional abuse for many, many years and it completely warps the way they look at things. It also makes them have a bit of an "elitist" attitude towards others, even people who are IDENTICAL to themselves. And like you see with lots of abused folks, they don't want to leave the abuser. The abuser has convinced them they CAN'T leave, can't succeed, etc. So they stay.

That's my take on it.

 

[MonorailMan]

Although I'm not 100% sure, I don't think he was abused. He speaks very highly of his parents and hates the thought of leaving them........

Hmmm......

*gets to thinkin'*

 

[Nauf]

Question: do his parents charge him rent or is he living there rent free?

 

[ConcKahuna]

It's like a gay version of "Faliure to Launch"....

 

[MonorailMan]

Question: do his parents charge him rent or is he living there rent free?

He's living rent free, and I don't believe he pays for food or utilities either.

He recently asked what my rent was, so I told him, and he freaked out. He thought I was crazy for living here because the rent is so "high". I then told him that since my roomie and I are close with the landlord we're actually paying about $300 less a month than what comparable places in this area are going for. I told him what we're paying for this place is pretty amazing and he'd be hard-pressed to find anything close to the price we pay anywhere in this city considering the amount of space we have, and he thought I was joking.

It's like a gay version of "Faliure to Launch"....

*sigh* David.......now I'm gonna have to go watch that movie. I've never seen it before.

 

[ConcKahuna]

*sigh* David.......now I'm gonna have to go watch that movie. I've never seen it before.

It's cute. A smplified plot is that it's about a girl that parents hire to date thier sons and convince them to get lives and move out of the house

 

[soulmates]

I SO thought of the same movie!! Failure to launch!! Yes, there are people who never want to leave their comfort zones. To each his/her own. Me personally, I've always been adventurous, and wanted to spread my wings early. I moved out the DAY after graduating highschool. Had my 1st apartment at 18. I had a wonderful homelife, just wanted to be on my own. We're all different.

 

[DVC~OKW~96]

What are his plans for the time when his parents are gone?

It sounds a bit like a social phobia combined with some internalized issues...

Not trying to diagnose as I'm not qualified for that, just commenting.

Is he open at all to seeing a therapist (a gay qualified therapist, and NO just because someone is legally allowed to do mental health therapy does NOT mean they are qualified to work with gay people)?

His parents aren't after him to move, eh? Sounds like my father and his parents. And that's not a good thing.

 

[mikelan6]

I can relate with your friend since I am in a similar situation. I also moved out of the house late (I was 31) and I don't really go to the gay clubs or bars. I also tend to relate better with people around my age or older.

If he's living in his own world and out of touch, it's up to him to realize what he wants and how to get it.

If you like him as a person, then continue the friendship with him. Where he lives and if he goes to bars or not is his life ... not yours.

 

[Sphyrna]

I, too, can relate with your friend. I left the house but have since moved back. Although for me it's a financial decision. If I'm going to pay for a place I'd rather give the money to my mom to help her with her bills. Plus it's cheaper than my own place which has allowed me to get my credit cards paid off. Now I'll start saving for a down payment on a house.

I also don't frequent the clubs or bars. Guess that's why I look forward to my trips to Gay Days. It's my chance to feel part of the community and have fun.

Ultimately it's your decision to make just how nuts he drives you and if it's worth it for his friendship.

 

[donald...really]

It doesn't sound like you have a lot in common with Dean. Are you getting something out of being friends with him? Do you enjoy your time with him? If not, why are you friends with him?

 

[MonorailMan]

What are his plans for the time when his parents are gone?

It sounds a bit like a social phobia combined with some internalized issues...

Not trying to diagnose as I'm not qualified for that, just commenting.

Is he open at all to seeing a therapist (a gay qualified therapist, and NO just because someone is legally allowed to do mental health therapy does NOT mean they are qualified to work with gay people)?

His parents aren't after him to move, eh? Sounds like my father and his parents. And that's not a good thing.

He doesn't believe anything is wrong. He has no intention of moving out. The fact that his mother is currently having health issues terrifies him, which leads me to believe the poor guy is going to be 110% devastated when his parents pass on.

One of the biggest problems I have with this scenario is that when I talk to him on the phone and he's at home it seems as though his parents still treat him as though he's a 10 year-old, and he acts accordingly.

I can relate with your friend since I am in a similar situation. I also moved out of the house late (I was 31) and I don't really go to the gay clubs or bars. I also tend to relate better with people around my age or older.

If he's living in his own world and out of touch, it's up to him to realize what he wants and how to get it.

If you like him as a person, then continue the friendship with him. Where he lives and if he goes to bars or not is his life ... not yours.

Trust me.....I have no room to judge people, especially considering all of the problems I've been having lately. I guess I'm just looking for input because I'm concerned about his well being. Socially he's the equivalent of Ned Flanders from The Simpsons. His lingo sounds like he grew up in the 50's, and it gets to the point where people he talks to in public tend to look at him like he's joking around, but he's not.

He has some serious mood swings, which kind of makes me only want to deal with him in small doses. I like him, I just want to try and understand his situation better.

I SO thought of the same movie!! Failure to launch!! Yes, there are people who never want to leave their comfort zones. To each his/her own. Me personally, I've always been adventurous, and wanted to spread my wings early. I moved out the DAY after graduating highschool. Had my 1st apartment at 18. I had a wonderful homelife, just wanted to be on my own. We're all different.

You're so ahead of your time, girl! I'm kind of the same way, although when I first left home I was terrified mostly because of my health issues. After about a week I realized, "I can do this on my own, but thanks for getting me started, ma and pa."

 

[MonorailMan]

Since I got sidetracked and took about an hour to respond last night, I completely overlooked these. (Sorry about that. )

I, too, can relate with your friend. I left the house but have since moved back. Although for me it's a financial decision. If I'm going to pay for a place I'd rather give the money to my mom to help her with her bills. Plus it's cheaper than my own place which has allowed me to get my credit cards paid off. Now I'll start saving for a down payment on a house.

I also don't frequent the clubs or bars. Guess that's why I look forward to my trips to Gay Days. It's my chance to feel part of the community and have fun.

Ultimately it's your decision to make just how nuts he drives you and if it's worth it for his friendship.

I can completely understand your situation, especially since I almost had to move back home this year due to financial difficulties. But for "Dean" it's not a financial issue.

He'll go to the bars 1-2 times a year, but once he leaves all he does is get upset over how the "gay scene" is, as he puts, dumb/overrated/stupid/ *insert any adjective you like here*. I'm kind of getting the feeling that he doesn't like being gay and is ashamed of what being gay is or can be.

It doesn't sound like you have a lot in common with Dean. Are you getting something out of being friends with him? Do you enjoy your time with him? If not, why are you friends with him?

We're both nerds......but other than that we have very little in common.

That's a good question, and at the moment I'm not sure I know how to answer it. When he's in a good mood I enjoy his company. We tend to help each other out when it comes to our careers since we both have knowledge the other person doesn't have. I give him design/art/photography advice, and he gives me technical know-how advice. It's almost like we're yin and yang.

We can have really good entertaining conversations from time to time where we're both laughing, which I always enjoy.

 

[MonorailMan]

Okay.......something just happened that has me even more concerned over Dean's well being.

In Dean's mind he has all these "friends". By the way he describes people, he makes it sound like he has hundreds and hundreds of friends. (In other words, if he were to talk to someone at Starbuck's for more than 10 seconds, he'd consider him a friend.) One of these "friends" whom Dean has only met in person 2 or 3 times passed away a couple days ago......and he is completely devastated. He's crying and has completely shut down emotionally to the point where he can't even function.
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He's only met this guy 2 or 3 times! My problem is this: If he's THIS devastated over this person dying, whom be barely knew, how the heck is he going to handle the time when his parents pass away?

Ohhhhhh.....Methinks this is going to get ugly.

 

[akcire]

OP--Your friend Dean reminds me of my Father. My Father lived at home until my grandparents sold the house and moved 1000 miles away to retire, he was 36 years old. Knowing that they were planning to move he finally started dating seriously (or predatorily, you choose) and met my mother--they were married weeks before the Grandparents gave him the boot.....or as he will say "sold the house out from under him". (Keep in mind he had a highly successful career and had no reason to live at home). My Father always knew a lot of people, but does not really have any people in his life I would consider a friend.

Fast forward 25 years...grandparents die....Father had remained very close to them (especially grandmother) and has a complete breakdown. [I vividly remember sitting in family counseling with him crying that it was so unexpected. At the time I was 22 years old, my Grandmother was 94 years old and had been ill when she died!] To this day he still has not gotten over their passing, particularly his mother. However he exhibits complete detachment regarding the death of his brother (who was less than 60), and doesn't appear to care.

His wife, my Mother hangs around through 5 years of his "issues" and after 5 years she finally has had enough and files for divorce. Once again Father has complete breakdown, and repeats the breakdown focusing on abandonment.

At this point he has no friends just a million acquaintances, he does however have a BIG pile of money; and is now convinced everyone is out to get his money. Since I am a good daughter I answer 1 out of every 5 calls he makes to me, if I don't he will wail into my machine about how everyone has abandon him.

Too bad Dean is not in IL, we could get them together.

 

[SandrA9810]

I have a friend on the net, who's only 25 and still lives at home. Has never held a job. And takes the excuse of he's in school and that's the way it is in his culture... Just sounds like a lazy mans excuse to be a child.

I wanted to move out after graduating high school. I wish I had a couple of years to save up and work and all that other fun stuff, but I didn't. I'm kinda glad I got thrown out on my butt in some ways. Sometimes I hate the way things have turned out, other times I'm glad it happened.

My mom is a complete lazy ***. Besides the few years that she was married to my father and a few years after the selling of the house, she has always lived at home. Way back when, my g'father built a 2 story apartment on the back of the house for my aunt and uncle to live in once they graduated. So they could live at home, but still be independent. Well that's where my mom ended up living, and why I grew up with my g'parents as well. My g'mother was always the motherly type and took care of her every beckon call. And she never had to pay rent, utilities, for food...
After the house was sold in 2003, she lived with my sister for a couple years before moving into a trailer home a few blocks away. The sold it in 2007, lived with me for a few months but I had enough on my plate with rent, credit cards, work and all that fun stuff of living. So I sent her down to my sister's where she currently lives. And still relies on my sister to take care of her basic needs.

Even after her "primary caregiver" could no longer take care of her, she moved on to some one else to take care of her.

Doesn't sound like your friend will be having any kids to foot the bills when his parent's die, but he'll finally fall into some sort of trap of a controlling relationship just for that person to take care of him, cause he won't know how to do it on his own. And that seems to be the only kind of life he knows.

Does he even accept that he's gay?? Or does he feel more like asexual or something? Like having a life partner isn't in his future?? Truthfully, living at home, he ain't gonna ever attract a decent person.

 

[MonorailMan]

Akcire: you just gave almost (eerily) an exact description of Dean. He doesn't always think people are out to get him or are abandoning him, but he doesn't understand why people are always thinking differently than he does, which has lead to big fights and ending of friendships. Whenever he starts talking about his mother's health he becomes extremely depressed and distant, almost to the point where I don't even recognize him any more. He feels as though he's responsible for his parents' well being, and I think in the end that's going to be his psychological downfall.

SandrA9810: The only two people he's been interested in trying to date in the past 10 years were me and one of the guys in his "Friday Night group". It seems that he requires men to come to him in order for him to find anyone or show any interest in. I've beat around the bush about the fact that it's going to be a challenge for him to find anyone willing to tolerate his home life, and I learned my lesson to never bring up that topic again. He accepts the fact that he's gay but sexuality just isn't that important to him. I think he hates kids, so that shouldn't be a problem.

 

[akcire]

Akcire: you just gave almost (eerily) an exact description of Dean. He doesn't always think people are out to get him or are abandoning him, but he doesn't understand why people are always thinking differently than he does, which has lead to big fights and ending of friendships. Whenever he starts talking about his mother's health he becomes extremely depressed and distant, almost to the point where I don't even recognize him any more. He feels as though he's responsible for his parents' well being, and I think in the end that's going to be his psychological downfall.

First off, I should introduce myself akcire= Ericka. I am just not that creative with the screen names.

Second--if he is as much like my Father as you say, watch out you are in for a bumpy ride. If it was not my Father, I would have "divorced" him too and sometimes I do take a "time out" from him for a while. The fact that he wanted to date you, would concern me.

A big part of my Father's problem "I think" are some unresolved issues with sexuality, like your friend Dean appears to have. One of my friends asked me about it one time and I put it in terms of Sesame Street....Grover does a Near/Far explanation and emotionally that is my Father. All of his relationships are either super-clingy "too near" or very casual "too far", I honestly doubt Dean or my Father will ever learn how to achieve appropriate boundaries with others. [Dean probably thinks you are his best friend and he is yours or you are secret boyfriends]. My Father did do therapy for a while, but was too stubborn to allow himself to succeed and blamed the therapist, the process, the insurance company, money, others, and anything else he could think of why he should quit. I honestly think the therapist was relieved.

The only good thing is that my Father's conversations tend to cycle, so I don't really need to be an active listener and can mentally check myself out while talking to him (I have heard it all before). Like I said before, if he was not my Father (and honestly as a kid he was pretty decent, at the time the parents were still married and Grandma was still alive) I would have let the ship sail on the relationship. I feel a personality like this is toxic, and you have to make sure it is not impacting you.

 

[Sphyrna]

Has Dean done any therapy or counseling? It sounds like he could use some.