Whats wrong with children?

[Taratink]

Some people on this board seem to be anti-kids. I try not to take offense to it. I believe that Disney is for everyone but if I didn't like kids I would not go there. It is filled with families and many families have children. They are our future and I feel that they deserve more respect. I do understand that many parents let kids run free and do not remove them from situations that they should. If anything I think that these anti-children people should be anti lazy parent. My kids are well behaved 70% of the time and when they are not they are in the corner or removed from the situation. I know that I would get flamed on any other board and maybe on this one but I just needed to vent. Maybe when my kids are grown I will feel differently but I am just really sensitive to comments about children because they are my whole world.
Tara

 

[lenshanem]

Yep... It is weird, isn't it?

I know exactly what you are talking about. There is an anti-kids sentiment sometimes on the DIS. How odd since WDW is really about family!

 

[F1Julie]

I agree completely. To me, WDW is for kids after all. I certainly wouldn't be going there without my DD. If people don't want to deal with kids on their vacation, there are tons of other places they can go. Now, having said that, I do believe parents really should make an effort for their kids to behave while they are at WDW (or anywhere else). I work with kids all day long and see that children really are a product of their parent's parenting (or lack of) skills.

 

[lenshanem]

To me, WDW is for kids after all. I certainly wouldn't be going there without my DD.

Actually... We just got back from a three nights stay w/o our girls. It was the first time I had left my three year old. We had a blast! We rode all the rides they won't or can't and we stayed out until one every night!

We used to go all the time before we had kids, too.

I think WDW is for all ages with an emphasis on family. To go and not expect to see children crying, etc. is absurd.

Actually while we were waiting in lien for a bus a mom apologized to us for her "full of life" three year old. Actually, this little boy reminded us very much of our three year old daughter back at home. I told her there was no need to apologize, that I understood all too well. Their son wandering around the que didn't bother me in the least. He is three after all and at a very exciting place - WDW!

 

[VAN]

I have two of my own and agree that children are what makes the world go 'round (I also have 13 siblings, 47 nieces/nephews, 4 grand nieces/nephews so am constantly in the presence of children of all ages) .... In fact, I will be traveling to Guatemala with a brother for an adoption shortly.

having said that, I don't have a problem with children. I DO HAVE A PROBLEM with PARENTS who think their children are the most darling creatures alive and think we all enjoy watching their child swing on the ropes/chains in the ques, etc. Or the ones that don't take their children to the cry-room at church when they continue to scream and make noise during the serman, etc. Or the ones that visit your home and swish through the drapes and walk on your furniture while the parent sits there smiling.

I believe there was just a TV program about -- America raising a generation of spoiled, rotten brats and why parents are afraid to say no to their children.

As I've said, it is those parents that don't even make an attempt to discipline or set boundries (or think their naughty child is cute and we all enjoy them as much as they do) that I have a problem with. They are not doing their children any favors!!!

Flame away ....

 

[ksc37]

Yes, there is some 'anti-kids' sentiment on these boards. How odd.

I know there is another very long thread on the Adult forum that complains about kids and their parents in WDW. Yes, I feel that parents should try to discipline their kids, and remove them from situations when they can, but kids are human beings and individuals and cannot be angels 100% of the time. Nor can they be removed from or disciplined in every situation (let's face it, if you saw a parent over-disciplining their children, most of us would frown upon that situation as well).

I went to WDW several times before I had my own kids. WDW is a family place. If you go to WDW expecting not to be disturbed by a tired, hungry, cranky, antsy child, you are extremely misinformed.

 

[Brian Noble]

I'm a parent, and I can tell you exactly what's wrong with them: they are small, uncivilized sources of chaos and destruction. There was a great science fiction short (whose author escapes me) about an alien race's plan to take over Earth and enslave its population: kill everyone over 8.

I suspect it isn't the kids so much as it is the (small percentage of) parents who make no effort to limit the damage and annoyance that their kids cause to others around them.

It's sort of like visiting France: if you make some small effort to speak a few words of French, no matter how horribly, the natives will treat you kindly. That doesn't change the fact that there is the inevitable ugly American who naturally assumes that the whole world should speak English as a courtesy.

 

[JenDaveBrendan]

I totally agree with you about some people on these boards not liking children. If you go to the adult board, there is a huge post on "screaming children". I was fuming after reading some of the threads, but figured it was not worth my time to respond to these people who obviously have no children and have no idea what they are talking about.
Kids WILL act up from time to time. There is no perfectly behaved child all the time. Some people fail to understand that, and automatically assume just because a child is having a tantrum, yelling, crying, etc, that it is "bad parenting", which is far from the truth!!
If you don't like children, and don't want to hear any crying or yelling, or don't want to witness a child having a meltdown (which will happen) don't go to Disney!!
Yes, there are parents out there that are oblivious, but I think most do the best they can with what they are dealt. Don't judge someone until you have walked a day in their shoes.
If my 4 year old acts up in public, I quickly take him away from the situation. What else can I do? I cannot predict when a toddler is going to get upset. And I still have gotten stares at times. These people just don't get it......

Jen

 

[cl1067]

I agree with most of the posts. You can't predict what your kids are going to do and when they do act up you just need to do your best to remove them from the stituation. And if you don't want to be around children, don't go to a vacation destination that is built around a cartoon character!

My biggest thing is that whether it's someone that has never had children or someone that has already raised their children, they need to remember they were once that cranky, tired child too. We have all been a child before...and I doubt there is any one of us that was a perfect angel during our whole childhood.

 

[CindyAnn]

In fairness, most of the times the sentiment is expressed as "anti-do-nothing-parent" as opposed to "anti-kid", but I also get that "what are all these kids doing here" feeling from some of the posts, too. It does seem to surprise some people that WDW is basically hot and cold running kids.

I think at least part of the problem is that we're all better parents before we have children. The theories are all just wonderful. Then, the living, breathing, screaming, pooping, sleep-deprived reality hits, and you realize that it's a lot more difficult than it looks. You also realize that your children are different from each other from the moment they're born - there really is such as thing as inborn personality.

I agree with you, JenDaveBrendan, when you say that people think that when a child has a tantrum it's due to bad parenting. The irony is that, in fact, it's quite probably the opposite. The child is having a tantrum because you've said "no more rides", "no more ice cream", "no more stuffed animals" or "time to go back for a nap". In fact, you're setting appropriate limits, and THAT'S what caused the tantrum in the first place. How can people not get that? Kids don't HAVE meltdowns when you give them everything they want. I have NEVER given in to one of my children's tantrums, but that hasn't stopped them from trying and trying and trying it over and over again. Sure I can remove them from the situation, but Main Street is a pretty long stretch with a screaming child - that's the reality of it.

It would be nice if everyone just took it for granted that the vast majority of parents are doing their best, and the obnoxious child biting your ankles under the table at California Grill has to be balanced against the 5,000 normally behaved children you've seen that day. So long as it's not MY obnoxious child, I'm happy.

 

[SandrainNC]

CindyAnn - you made some great points (and made me laugh). My son is a definitely a little sweety pie -- until he doesn't get his way.

I know before I was a parent I would see kids screaming and crying and think that their parents needed to do something about it. Now I realize that in some situations there is nothing you can do except try to remove them as quickly as possible to keep them from disturbing others. I do agree though that sometimes the parents are not doing all they can do to control their child.

I also agree that even though Disney is great for adults only (done it myself a few times) if you just really do not like children, it is definitely not the place to go.

Sandra

 

[KimR]

I totally agree with Van - children are not the problem - it's the parents who think they have carte-blance to let their children run wild and create havoc simply because "WDW is for kids, after all". I am by no means a child-hater (I have three: 12, 6, and 3); but I do get annoyed with parents who do nothing to control their kids or who do not remove them from a restaurant or show when they are creating a disturbance. WDW or not, it's just common (or maybe not so common) courtesy.

 

[DisneyPhD]

CindyAnn makes a very good point. Giving in to tandrums is bad parenting. Before you are a parent you have lots of ideas of how to be a good parent. Heck I even taught parenting classes as a MSW, however living a situation is rather different then working.

The number one rule of the brotherhood or parenthood is, each parent has to make their own choices what is good for their family, support not critasisum. Many parents don't disapline their children because with child care, nannys and schools they don't spend a great deal of time with their kids and don't want to spend the time they do in conflict. (however no good will ever come of this method.) When on vacation many parents spend more time with their kids in that week then they do in 4 other months.

I have been to WDW many times before kids. Disney is for children of all ages! I have been with kids. In most instances my kids were exremely well behaved. Most of the time when I hear a crying child my thought is "Thank God that isn't mine!" Because we all know we have been there.

I have actually gotten in fights with young men (it always seems to be single young men in their early 20's) what wonder why in the world I would bring a 2 year old to WDW. Do they have any idea how insane that is to ask that question?

 

[PlutoPony]

Agree w/ KimR on this one.... and I'm finding more and more that it's not just at WDW that parents don't control their kids. I'm a stay at home mom, and am quite familiar w/ DS's personality, behavior, etc (good and not so good). I can see how parents who work all day may not know their kids as well (this is NOT a criticism of working parents, or meant to be any kind of guilt trip here!!!) and might not be as adept at handling their behaviors, anticipating reactions, etc. Vacation/family time can be a real learning experience for everyone - if they pay attention....

 

[crisi]

I'm anti kid at SOME parts of Disney.

I'm anti kid at Pleasure Island. If I'm going to Pleasure Island, I'm going for an adult good time. I don't want to have to worry that my behavior or my language is not appropriate for your child. I'm somewhat unlikely to engage in inappropriate behavior at my age now, but fifteen years ago I could have been a "learning experience" you may not have been ready to give your child. At some point, I think kids should be allowed to experience the AC and Comedy Warehouse (14 or 16?) but I wish Disney would not allow young children in.

I'm anti kid on a golf course (until about age ten or twelve and some kids can play at 8). Even a short nine is a lot for most kids to handle. A golf course is boring, and it isn't safe for kids. Kids also slow down the pace of play and have a hard time understanding concepts like "quiet while I swing."

I'm anti small child in most of the nicer restaurants - and I think V&As shouldn't allow children under 14. When I'm looking for a nice romantic dinner with my husband and I'm going to spend $100 a person, I don't even want to risk a three year old's tantrum - even if you pull him out of the restaurant when he starts kicking and screaming. Little kids just aren't predictible enough to take to a really nice restaurant. Since I'm in the minority in this at Disney, I don't take my kids into these restaurants and we don't go to these restaurants at Disney. We save our sitter and our fine dining for home. (And yes, there are rude adults as well, but the risk seems to be lower).

I'm anti-scared-kid-on-ride and anti-too-short-child on ride. We've all seen it - the parent trying to convince their not-quite-tall-enough child to stand up really straight, put lifts in their shoes, fluff their hair, get them on Tower of Terror. Or the one telling an obviously scared and screaming child that Pirates of the Carribean will be OK. Yeah, it will be. And some amount of encouraging them to stretch is good parenting. But there is some line some people seem determined to cross at Disney.

Disney IS for kids. But its also for Honeymooners. Adults. Business people going to conferences. Golfers. College students on Spring Break.......

And I do think that a lot of parents push their kids at Disney. Its really easy after spending the kind of money you are spending to try and get one more ride into a hungry kid before lunch, or one more hour out of a tired kid before nap. Not to mention that the colors and music and people and the excitement and all the walking and travel and time zone change and different diet and schedule can mean that even if you know you child well at home, they may be over stimulated in ways you haven't experienced - and may be harder to read.

My daughter, who can be somewhat tantrum prone at home, has only had one bad time at Disney (at Boma, where were were way to the back at a crowded restaurant and couldn't leave with her - too dangerous to carry and kicking screaming four year old out - which is what we need to do if she gets bad - so we needed to deal with it where we were - with apologies to surrounding tables). And one bad tummyache (because she was too excited to go potty, when we decided to make her stop to go potty she was fine - but that doesn't happen at home). She is actually better behaved at Disney than at home.

 

[Brian Noble]

crisi: exellent post. It reminds me of our family's three Ironclad Rules for any amusement park.

1) On overnight trips, we leave the park for a mid-day rest, preferably a nap. On one-day excursions to our local park, we arrive at 10 and leave no later than 5. Pushing any more to "get your money's worth" only makes everyone unhappy.

2) If you are not tall/old enough to ride, you don't ride. Period. The ride will be there for a long time, and we'll be back.

3) No one gets on anything they don't want to. Even if you've waited in a one hour long line and decide on the loading platform that you'd rather not, you don't have to, and at least one other parent will wait with you. No grudges held.

As an aside the best way to train kids for the golf course is to let them caddy as soon as they are old enough. Good golf etiquette lessons, and they can earn a few bucks besides. I think I started around 12 or so. I'm a horrible golfer (and in fact don't find playing that enjoyable) but ever since I've been a teen, I've known enough to neither step in someone's line or stand in view of their backswing. Plus, I got to hear a lot of jokes at 12 that I probably shouldn't have been hearing.

Related note: the best way to train kids for nice restaurants is to take them to not so nice ones (the TGIFridays of the world) but teach and expect the behavior one should have in a top-shelf place.

 

[ZuZugal]

A bit off the topic............the best way to teach a child in golf etiquette would be to:

(1) Enroll him/her in a reputable golf program at a young age. In our area we have the "Gateway Jr. PGA", which is an outstanding program for young golfers. They learn immediately that conduct on the course if one of the most important parts of the game. No, it's not expensive, and you don't need to be in a country club to join.

(2) As in many other aspects of life, teaching should come first from the home. Take jr. out on the local 9-hole and focus more on course etiquette than mechanics. Choose a slow time of day.


My now 11 yr old DS had better manners on the course at age 7 than most adults seems to have.

As for manners at Disney, everyone is going to have their opinion. THose parents who seem to be the biggest offenders at Disney (by not helping their young, tired, frustrated children) will be the least likely to listen to any advice we give.

 

[catherines_mama]

It is not an easy job being a parent, especially to a toddler. Like someone said.. its the parents who let their kids scream / swing on the queue ropes etc.. not the kid itself. What's even tougher is when you have a kid who obeys and listens 80% of the time.. but it a bit of a "follower". My DD listens very well (she's 3 1/2) but when at WDW in Feb.. she knew that she had to behave and stand nice in line. She knew I wouldn't hold her in line and she knew to behave.. and she did. We were never in line long.. with a decent plan and WDW in FEB that's possible. But as soon as a child next to us in line got picked up by mom.. or swung on the ropes.. she wanted to. Its very hard to say.. "no you cannot do that but that kid can".

Another comment about kids acting up b/c of bad parents and its opposite is right. My DD only threw 1 major fit at WDW last week. It was because I would not buy her candy. Humm.. I'm a bad parent b/c I won't my my 3 1/2 yr old candy. The kid never eats candy and she knows its only for special times (okay like once a week she'll get it). But we aren't a sugary family (me and my need to lose 40 lbs proves it LOL). Anyway.. that was her only tantrum and I'm sorry if it offended anyway, but they can pay her dentist bills and give her candy to stop a tantrum.

A mom was dealing with a tantrum at the County Fair in ToonTown. I asked her how old.. she said 3 1/2 .. it was a little girl. I just pointed at mine and smiled.. Yes .. 3 1/2 yr old girls are VERY fun.. NOT!

 

[Brian Noble]

My DS4 is a bit of a follower too, but I remind him that "he knows better than to sit on the rails, so that you won't fall and get hurt." Usually I say this loudly enough for the nearby parent to hear. Sometimes this none-to-subtle hint actually works, though it didn't this past weekend.

 

[ErinInCT]

I somehow thought Disney magic & pixie dust would transform my "spirited" dd4 into an angel. Boy was I wrong. Any problems she had at home were just magnified when she got overstimulated, overwhelmed, off her routine, etc. My d-sis was with us to help out & we pretty much turned her off from marriage & kids on this trip!! We even left MGM less then an hour after getting there due to dd's misbehavior. It was the hardest thing to do since we paid A LOT of money for our park passes but we could only put up with so much b4 we cracked! So we carried out a kicking and screaming girl and you know what, dd was not even THAT mad that we had to leave - she was more mad that she wasn't getting the Ariel Barbie doll that she wanted (why do the rides/attractions have to dump you out in a gift store???). Part of me wanted to break down & just buy her the dumb thing but I thought that was setting a dangerous precedent. Anyway, I'm getting off topic. So we'll try again in 2 years & hope she'll do better! Then we'll only have to worry about dd1 who will be 3 for our next trip!
On another note, we park hopped to MK that night for Wishes (which we would have missed since we chose Fantasmic at MGM that night) & it was just the greatest ever. I got it all on tape & watch it every day (including TINK!!) & it makes me tear up! SO I guess I feel I got my money's worth.