What's 'wrong' with Catholicism (dare we try to discuss without debate?)

[tone.def]

The reason for this is because to Catholic communion is not symbolic.It is literal...Catholics believe they are partaking of the ACTUAL body and blood of Christ
Communion is notopen to all Catholics either..Children go through classes and have a ceremony before they can participe in the Eucharist..There are rules around communion such as not having eaten for a certain amount of hours beforehand. Not having already had communion that day..If one has unconfessed sins on their soul they are not supposed to recieve communion.I could not recieve communion for years because I'm *living in sin*(Not that there are communion police to stop me*
Communion is a privelage,even to Catholics

What?

Okay, as a born and bred Catholic, taught by nuns, the whole works - this is all news to me!

1.) that can't be actual body of Christ - he died centuries ago!!! the "Priest" transforms it into a metaphor/symbol of the "body of christ"

2.) Never heard the rule about not eating before communion... We've always had hearty breakfastes on Sunday morning!

 

[JennyMominRI]

What?

Okay, as a born and bred Catholic, taught by nuns, the whole works - this is all news to me!

1.) that can't be actual body of Christ - he died centuries ago!!! the "Priest" transforms it into a metaphor/symbol of the "body of christ"

2.) Never heard the rule about not eating before communion... We've always had hearty breakfastes on Sunday morning!

You seriously don't know what the Doctrine of Transubstantiation is? It is the backbone of Catholicism
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05573a.htm#3

 

[Disney Doll]

Yeah, we got married in March. My fiance was raised Catholic (though doesn't attend Mass anymore). We never really *seriously* considered it, but I read somewhere that most Catholic priests would not marry a "mixed faith" couple unless one converted first.

It wasn't something I pursued, anyway!

So your husband is a non-practicing Catholic and you are a Protestant and yet you wanted to get married in a Catholic Church and were told no. Or did you just assume no?

But, if you're not Catholic and your DH is non-practicing, which means one would assume he's not intereste din being a Catholic, then why would either of you care if the church wouldn't marry you? And if either of you were that interested in getting married in the Catholic Church for whatever reason, why wouldn't you have asked a priest instead of relying on something you think you read "somewhere"?

And why is your first post regarding this issue that the Catholic Church wouldn't marry you because you were a Protestant, and now this post indicates you may have read it "somewhere". Very different interpretations from post to post.

 

[Deb & Bill]

I was raised catholic and am raising my children the same. My flaw with the religion is that they don't hAve any groups or interest to get familes and kids together...

I'm Catholic. At my church, we have all sorts of activities for all different age groups. There is a middle school group that does community service or just gets together for popcorn and a movie. Same with the high school group. There is a young married group and a singles group. They go out to dinner together, plus study or discuss aspects of the church. We have groups that travel together to Rome, the Holy Land, etc. We're always having church suppers. Even on Thanksgiving day they had a buffet dinner where every family that attended brought a side dish or dessert. We just had a Fall Festival/Halloween Carnival for an entire weekend.

 

[tone.def]

Part of the problem is that the Catholic Church is the largest single religious denomination on the planet...

I believe it's actually Islam...

 

[golfgal]

What's wrong with the RCC? Well, it just seems so out of date. The catechisms regarding birth control, no women in the priesthood, abortion, euthanasia, sex outside of marriage and homosexuality are just not fitting in well with today's world, hence the drop in membership and seminary students. The rules certainly do not coincide with my life choices, so you won't see me converting any time soon.

QUOTE]


Ok but is this a bad thing? Perhaps if people tried to live more by the teachings of the church/Bible and less like they want to and try to fit Church into their life instead of fitting their life into Church wouldn't the world be a heck of a better place because basically all religions teach the same thing, love one an other and be good people.

I guess I don't see what is wrong with placing a value on human life (euthanasia, abortion, etc). I also don't see what is wrong with teaching abstinence. I see the Catholic church teaching a basic standard of moral behavior that people try to live by. Not everyone is going to be perfect in that but shouldn't you at least try? I am gathering from your post that you support many of these things otherwise you wouldn't have specifically listed them. I personally don't agree with them and whether that is because of my upbringing in the Catholic church or just who I am, I don't know but again, what is wrong with wanting people to live by some moral standards?

 

[JennyMominRI]

I believe it's actually Islam...

Islam is broken into denominations just like Christianity..Christianities largest denomination is Roman Catholicism with1,100,000 000members
Sunni Islam is next with 1,000,000,000

 

[Deb & Bill]

What?

Okay, as a born and bred Catholic, taught by nuns, the whole works - this is all news to me!

1.) that can't be actual body of Christ - he died centuries ago!!! the "Priest" transforms it into a metaphor/symbol of the "body of christ"

2.) Never heard the rule about not eating before communion... We've always had hearty breakfastes on Sunday morning!

I've been a Catholic for 55 years. I've known both of these the entire time. I taught Sunday school many years and I was surprised to hear one of the other teachers (we were preparing the kids for First Eucharist) tell the kids that it was a symbol. I had to correct her. That was just plain wrong for a Catholic parent to teach a Catholic child.

Way back when, you couldn't eat after midnight. Then they changed it to three hours before mass. Now it's one hour before Communion. When I was a kid, we always invited the priest over to our house after mass for Breakfast. My mom made the best coffee cake and cinnamon rolls. One priest even asked if he could bring his mother over for breakfast after mass when she visited him from Ireland. His mother was glad to see the parishioners taking good care of her son.

 

[golfgal]

What?

Okay, as a born and bred Catholic, taught by nuns, the whole works - this is all news to me!

1.) that can't be actual body of Christ - he died centuries ago!!! the "Priest" transforms it into a metaphor/symbol of the "body of christ"

2.) Never heard the rule about not eating before communion... We've always had hearty breakfastes on Sunday morning!

Pre-Vatican II people were "required" to fast before Communion. It was something like 8 hours. Technically now it is 1 hour, which really isn't that big of a deal unless you are eating in church because by the time you leave your house, drive to church, go through the part of Mass up until Communion it is about an hour or so.

The basic difference between the Catholic church and the Lutheran church is transubstantiation (the Eucharist actually changing into the body of Christ). Catholics believe it actually happens, Lutherans feel it is a symbol of his body and blood (there are other differences, but this is the major one).

 

[tone.def]

You seriously don't know what the Doctrine of Transubstantiation is? It is the backbone of Catholicism
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05573a.htm#3

The bread has "converted" into the Body of Christ... To me it's a symbol, not the actual body.

I guess it's matter of personal interpretation through how we choose to accept and understand our faith or I must have slept through all those classes! Granted, we did have some pretty cool nuns as teachers in high school, so I think they skimmed the boring parts and took us on Cathedral tours in Europe instead.

 

[JennyMominRI]

Ok but is this a bad thing? Perhaps if people tried to live more by the teachings of the church/Bible and less like they want to and try to fit Church into their life instead of fitting their life into Church wouldn't the world be a heck of a better place because basically all religions teach the same thing, love one an other and be good people.

I guess I don't see what is wrong with placing a value on human life (euthanasia, abortion, etc). I also don't see what is wrong with teaching abstinence. I see the Catholic church teaching a basic standard of moral behavior that people try to live by. Not everyone is going to be perfect in that but shouldn't you at least try? I am gathering from your post that you support many of these things otherwise you wouldn't have specifically listed them. I personally don't agree with them and whether that is because of my upbringing in the Catholic church or just who I am, I don't know but again, what is wrong with wanting people to live by some moral standards?

I think the Catholic Church has every right to hold it members to sertain standards..It's when a church(any church) tries to hold the general public to those standards that I take issue.

 

[Disney Doll]

I went to private, Christian schools from K-12 (non-Catholic.) We were taught why our religion was the only true religion, and other Christian faiths- especially Catholism was wrong. I don't remember ever being told Catholics wouldn't go to heaven, but I recall teachers dancing around that question.

Later in life, I came to my own conclusions. I find it hard to believe that any one Christian religion is exactly right, and all others are wrong. That's non-sensical to me. In fact, my DW is Catholic. I mention all that so I can say the following before being flamed.

I think it is sickening what the Catholic Church has done over the years with pedofiles. There is a long, documented history that the unofficial policy was to move these pedofiles to different parrishes, hoping that would satisfy parishiners at the priest's former parrish, and the new parrish would have no idea of his past.

Once more and more people started to come forward, they would cover up, then deny, then try to pay the person off. It was the M.O. all over the country. In any other walk of life, wouldn't that person be fired and authorities notified?

To this day I don't think the Catholic Church has been very forthcoming or apologetic about what happened in the past, and hasn't made me feel comfortable anything has substantially changed.

Wow!!! We got through 53 posts before someone got to the pedophiles.

FWIW, I doubt there are any Catholics who are thrilled with that. I doubt that the many good preists are thrilled with their brother priests who have brought shame upon all of them. I certainly don't know of anyone within the Catholic Church who is doing the happy dance because children were abused. I certainly think that the men who were repsonsible for this should be punished to the fullest extent of the law. I think the dioceses where this occurred should make restitution to the victims.

I also think that at a certain point, we have to let it go....we have to move past it. My diocese has done a wonderful job of trying to make restitution and of putting in place programs, rules, regulations, policies etc., doing training seminars for any person who works or volunteers in any capacity for the church, the diocese or anything affilitated with it. The diocese has offered financial resitution to the victims (which they certainly deserve), the diocese has opffered to pay for counselling for the victims (which, again, they certainly deserve and are owed)...my point, what else can be done?????? We can't give the victims back what they have lost. We can only help them through it and try and insure that it doesn't happen again.

But there are many good Catholic priests, organizations, and lay people who didn't abuse children, and have done great things for others, but unfortunately they always get lost in the shuffle.

 

[JennyMominRI]

The bread has "converted" into the Body of Christ... To me it's a symbol, not the actual body.

I guess it's matter of personal interpretation through how we choose to accept and understand our faith or I must have slept through all those classes! Granted, we did have some pretty cool nuns as teachers in high school, so I think they skimmed the boring parts and took us on Cathedral tours in Europe instead.

It's not a matter of interpretation it's a central doctrine of the Catholic Church

 

[tone.def]

Pre-Vatican II people were "required" to fast before Communion. It was something like 8 hours. Technically now it is 1 hour, which really isn't that big of a deal unless you are eating in church because by the time you leave your house, drive to church, go through the part of Mass up until Communion it is about an hour or so.

That would be why - It was a drive to mass and I'm only in my 20's so I wouldn't have any rememberance/personal first hand knowledge or Pre-Vatican II and my Dad was alway happy to eat!

 

[tone.def]

It's not a matter of interpretation it's a central doctrine of the Catholic Church

Why are you attacking another Catholic? I worship and believe in my faith and accept some parts, but not all.

 

[JennyMominRI]

Why are you attacking another Catholic? I worship and believe in my faith and accept some parts, but not all.

I'm not Catholic(Jewish Convert) ,and please don't take it personally.. I don't think you have to accept everything to be a good Catholic.It's not my place to judge Catholics.. It's a simple fact though ,that the official position of the RCC is that the bread and wine are the ACTUAL body and Blood of Christ .
My Mother is a Catholic who struggles with some things she doesn't agree with..There is a difference between saying I disagree with the RCC stance on birth control and to say.It's a matter of interpretation as to whether or not the Catholic Church supports the use of birth control.

 

[Disney Doll]

Methinks I wouldn't be married today myself---and we are both Catholic .

That is a shame. Way to encourage converts--by having them make promises...and then still saying...ummmm, no.

what promise is being made by having someone "remain open to conversion"? "Remaining open to conversion" isn't the same as saying "you must convert in 5 years or the marriage will be null and void". It means just that...remain open-minded toward conversion. Sometimes how one feels at 25 is very different than how one might feel at 50.

 

[ellyn2000]

I do not believe many articles of faith that a Catholic does, but I do believe they are Christians and love Jesus as the Saviour and son of God. My denomination often slights Catholics (I'm pentecostal) and I can't tolerate it. Anyone who 1) believes in Jesus as the Saviour and son of God and 2) lives by that faith is OK by me. I think we're all going to be pretty surprised when we get to heaven and find out all the nonsense we were to unforgiving about (rules of denominations, etc...)were pointless.

 

[Disney Doll]

I agree that how it was handled was deplorable. However, I don't understand people leaving the faith because of it. It wasn't our belief system that caused the cover-ups, it was the stigma and shame associated with the abuse. I guess I don't see how what we have been taught to believe had anything to do with the cover-up. Does that make sense?

Yes, it makes perfect sense to me because you have separated the religion/theology from the people.

 

[Disney Doll]

Here's the thing. I am NOT Catholic, so I haven't left. However, my DW IS Catholic and I was strongly considering converting for her...for our family. But I will not join a church that would handle child molestation in such a horrible manner. As Soda said, that may change in time. But until I see evidence that it really has changed, I can not be a Catholic. That's just my opinion, and how I feel.

Have you researched the steps that the Catholic Chruch has taken to change? There have been many meetings over thepast several years of the Council of Bishops. The Bishop of my diocese was insturmental at these meetings in developing the action plan to correct what has happened. That may be why I am better versed on it than some, because he is my bishop.

In any event, if you are truly interested, there is probably "evidence" to be found. You'd have to look for it though. I doubt someone is going to drop it off on your doorstep.