What's 'wrong' with Catholicism (dare we try to discuss without debate?)

[MUFFYCAT]

I was raised catholic and am raising my children the same.
My flaw with the religion is that they don't hAve any groups or interest to get familes and kids together.

I recently started attending Baptist services. I like it because they have youth group for the kids. My 14 DD just went to an all nighter at the local indoor sports arena. They have the kids babysit the young ones during service. I find it to be very friendly.

I don't trash the catholic religion because we are all christians. They just do things differently that the Baptist church I'm attending.
We still celebrate the birth of Christ at Christmas and his death & resurrection at Easter.

 

[WIcruizer]

I agree that how it was handled was deplorable. However, I don't understand people leaving the faith because of it. It wasn't our belief system that caused the cover-ups

Here's the thing. I am NOT Catholic, so I haven't left. However, my DW IS Catholic and I was strongly considering converting for her...for our family. But I will not join a church that would handle child molestation in such a horrible manner. As Soda said, that may change in time. But until I see evidence that it really has changed, I can not be a Catholic. That's just my opinion, and how I feel.

 

[bananiem]

I have already posted that anyone is welcome to take Communion in our diocese, but I'm curious as to why people think it's their "right" to partake if they don't have the same beliefs?
When I was 20 a friend of mine got married in the Mormon Temple. I was not allowed to go because I am not Mormon. I understood that only people of their faith could partake of the service and respected that. If I don't "play by their rules" I have shouldn't be part of the "touchdown celebration."

 

[JennyMominRI]

I agree that how it was handled was deplorable. However, I don't understand people leaving the faith because of it. It wasn't our belief system that caused the cover-ups, it was the stigma and shame associated with the abuse. I guess I don't see how what we have been taught to believe had anything to do with the cover-up. Does that make sense?

It does to me... It's tough,I see my mother struggle with it.. One of the first cases ,way back in the early 90's was at my mothers Church in either Plainfield or No.Attleboro and she was horrified...The preist who officated my Brother 1st Holy Communion was also accused

 

[Deb in IA]

Honest question: Why would a non-Catholic family send their kids to Catholic school?

Is it because it's one of the "best" schools in the area? Assuming it's the best academically, you made a choice, academics over religious inclusion of your kids. No need to get rolly-eyed at a policy that you (presumably) knew about when you enrolled there.

OK, no rolly-eyes.

We sent our kids to Catholic school, because
1. There are no Episcopal schools here
2. We wanted them to go to a school that has a CHRISTMAS holiday, not a "winter" holiday (ooops! almost put in a rolly-eyes here!)
3. We wanted them to be able to say a prayer before tests and athletic events
4. We wanted them to have a strong emphasis on service to your community

And it seems I'm not the only one here who has brought up the communion issue. Hey, no big deal to me. Their church, their rules.

But to exclude a child who is coming to the alter . . . well, I believe it was Jesus himself who said, "Let the little children COME TO ME."

 

[golfgal]

Well said. It's not enough to say it happens everywhere, in all walks of life. What Soda described above is the BIG difference. Looking the other way..shuffling priests around. Denial. It was institutional, not just individuals doing terrible things. So it's deeper than what some of you indicated. If a pstor from some other church is caught, they are convicted.

But that is just not the case. There have been MANY instances where Pastors/Ministers from other denominations have been brushed aside and placed elsewhere for doing the same thing. My best friend's dad is a retired Episcopal minister and we were discussing this issue when it first hit the fan. He knows of other Episcopal ministers that were removed from their church and placed elsewhere for the same thing. Nothing was ever done to them legally (this would have been in the 1970's). Another good friend is a raised Catholic now turned Lutheran minister and knows of incidences just like those in the Catholic Church where pastors were moved to other areas for molesting kids/women in their churches. I DOES happen elsewhere and it IS brushed aside just like it was in the Catholic Church it just hasn't made front page news.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Honest question: Why would a non-Catholic family send their kids to Catholic school?

Is it because it's one of the "best" schools in the area? Assuming it's the best academically, you made a choice, academics over religious inclusion of your kids. No need to get rolly-eyed at a policy that you (presumably) knew about when you enrolled there.

When we lived in New Orleans--my mother did this with my brother and sister b/c they would learn better, the environment was actually LESS restrictive (though my sibs disagreed--the school they would have attended...no talking at lunch--not even a whisper--EVER), and it was more safe.

Our Catholic School (at my parish) is a VERY GOOD school...for the VERY AVERAGE student. If your child is exceptional (LD or gifted)--then it may or may not be a good fit. The public schools are better equipped to educate these students. But for the non-exceptional student...it is an EXCELLENT school. So the average parent would choose to send their average student here b/c the might get a better education. Mostly though--the elementary schools are better...but the middle school is worse--and if they want their child in our school in middle school...they are often times having to send them in the elementary ages so as to guaranteed their placement in middle school. (I hope that last sentence made sense).

 

[Crankyshank]

Not to completely hijack the thread, but do any of my fellow Catholics take communion at other (non Catholic) Churches?
I was raised that was a big no-no for the same reason why non Catholics weren't supposed to partake of communion in a Catholic mass. I was just curious if that was my local parish and school (not affiliated with my parish) or if this was something espoused by other parishes.

 

[Deb in IA]

That is true but it sounded like in the post that I quoted when you told your DD that Catholics won't make it to heaven that you said they didn't accept Jesus. I was just trying to make sure I understood your other post correctly.

OK. Here's what I said: Anyone who believes in Jesus will go to heaven.

 

[bananiem]

It does to me... It's tough,I see my mother struggle with it.. One of the first cases ,way back in the early 90's was at my mothers Church in either Plainfield or No.Attleboro and she was horrified...The preist who officated my Brother 1st Holy Communion was also accused

My 87 year old father, who was enrolled in the seminary when he met my mother, cannot even discuss it. I think it really shook him. But he still believes in the Holy Trinity, that the Eucharist really is the body and blood of Christ, and Mary is a virgin.
I appreaciate how levvel headed you stay in religious discussions.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Not to completely hijack the thread, but do any of my fellow Catholics take communion at other (non Catholic) Churches?
I was raised that was a big no-no for the same reason why non Catholics weren't supposed to partake of communion in a Catholic mass. I was just curious if that was my local parish and school (not affiliated with my parish) or if this was something espoused by other parishes.

I don't go to other churches---but I don't know if it is a big no-no or not for Catholics. The one time I went to an Episcopalian (sp?) church (in high school)--they offered it to everybody.

Is it your church that is prohibiting you from doing it elsewhere?

I would guess that it had something to do with "not practicing other faiths".

 

[Crankyshank]

It does to me... It's tough,I see my mother struggle with it.. One of the first cases ,way back in the early 90's was at my mothers Church in either Plainfield or No.Attleboro and she was horrified...The preist who officated my Brother 1st Holy Communion was also accused

That was when I really had my crisis of religion that I haven't fully come back from. I went to school at Fr Porter's Church and know several people quite well who were abused by him. I also had a friend that was abused by another priest and never really came forward about it. he tried when it was occurring but no one believed him.

It's very hard to really put the scandal in perspective and not judge the religion on it when it's your congregation affected by it.

 

[bananiem]

Not to completely hijack the thread, but do any of my fellow Catholics take communion at other (non Catholic) Churches?
I was raised that was a big no-no for the same reason why non Catholics weren't supposed to partake of communion in a Catholic mass. I was just curious if that was my local parish and school (not affiliated with my parish) or if this was something espoused by other parishes.

I was raised this way as well. We weren't to taoke it because it hadn't been consecrated into the body of Christ. As an adult I think "Well, it's just bread then, isn't it?" and partake at my in-laws' church.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

OK. Here's what I said: Anyone who believes in Jesus will go to heaven.

I read your original posting twice--and in the 2nd reading, that is what I thought you meant.

 

[Deb in IA]

Hi Annie!!


Say, are you heading back to Tampa in January??

 

[golfgal]

OK, no rolly-eyes.

We sent our kids to Catholic school, because
1. There are no Episcopal school here
2. We wanted them to go to a school that has a CHRISTMAS holiday, not a "winter" holiday (ooops! almost put in a rolly-eyes here!)
3. We wanted them to be able to say a prayer before tests and athletic events
4. We wanted them to have a strong emphasis on service to your community

And it seems I'm not the only one here who has brought up the communion issue. Hey, no big deal to me. Their church, their rules.

But to exclude a child who is coming to the alter . . . well, I believe it was Jesus himself who said, "Let the little children COME TO ME."

This comes up quite a bit at our kids' school where the non-Catholic kids feel 'left out' when it comes to First Communion and there after. It is just something you have to accept when you send your kids to a Catholic school. None of the kindergarten, first or second graders at our kids' school take Communion now, they go up with arms crossed for a blessing from the priest because they have not received their First Communion yet. Communion is a sacrament in the Catholic church. It is a BIG deal and not taken lightly. Your other option is to allow your children to become Catholic to participate in the Sacraments. Your child is not being excluded, he/she is being blessed by the priest. If they were being excluded they wouldn't be at Mass at all. Do your children receive communion at your church? Have they since the time they were born? No. Our neighbors growing up were the Episcopal minister in our town and his family. They didn't receive Communion until they were in about 8th grade.

 

[JennyMominRI]

That was when I really had my crisis of religion that I haven't fully come back from. I went to school at Fr Porter's Church and know several people quite well who were abused by him. I also had a friend that was abused by another priest and never really came forward about it. he tried when it was occurring but no one believed him.

It's very hard to really put the scandal in perspective and not judge the religion on it when it's your congregation affected by it.

Father Porter is the one I was talking about...He was at St Mary's in No Attleboro

 

[DisneyDotty]

Admit I haven't read whole thread, so I may be repeating what someone else has said, and I apologize if I do...
I'm a Catholic--struggle with my Church over many issues, but still a attends-Mass-regularly-teaches-RE kinda Catholic.
One issue non-Catholics have with the Roman Catholic Church is its reliance on tradition as much as, if not more, than the Bible. A fundamentalist non-Catholic friend is always asking me about my faith, "Where does it say that in the Bible?" I was led to believe that the Bible is not to be taken literally. Total opposite of several other Christian beliefs.

 

[scubamouse]

Not to completely hijack the thread, but do any of my fellow Catholics take communion at other (non Catholic) Churches?
I was raised that was a big no-no for the same reason why non Catholics weren't supposed to partake of communion in a Catholic mass. I was just curious if that was my local parish and school (not affiliated with my parish) or if this was something espoused by other parishes.

we now go to an Episcopal Church and every baptized Christian is invited to partake in communion regardless of denomination.

ETA - our kids are going to a Lutheran pre-school/pre-K. They're going there because it's a great school and there's no Episcopalian alternative. Plus their cousins went there and got a great educational foundation.

 

[Jennifer S]

OK I have a serious question that I hope someone can help me with. When I got married - over 12 years ago. I did get married in the Catholic church to a Lutheran. We promised to baptize the kids Catholic but many years later when we did have children we baptized them in the Lutheran church. We just felt the Lutheran church was a better fit for us.
Now what happens to me? I didn't lie. I guess I didn't put enough thought into it. At the time I was very unhappy with the church (non-practicing) but my family thought it was the only way to go.

After reading this thread I feel a little weird that I promised that but didn't follow through.