What's 'wrong' with Catholicism (dare we try to discuss without debate?)

[golfgal]

I went to private, Christian schools from K-12 (non-Catholic.) We were taught why our religion was the only true religion, and other Christian faiths- especially Catholism was wrong. I don't remember ever being told Catholics wouldn't go to heaven, but I recall teachers dancing around that question.

Later in life, I came to my own conclusions. I find it hard to believe that any one Christian religion is exactly right, and all others are wrong. That's non-sensical to me. In fact, my DW is Catholic. I mention all that so I can say the following before being flamed.

I think it is sickening what the Catholic Church has done over the years with pedofiles. There is a long, documented history that the unofficial policy was to move these pedofiles to different parrishes, hoping that would satisfy parishiners at the priest's former parrish, and the new parrish would have no idea of his past.

Once more and more people started to come forward, they would cover up, then deny, then try to pay the person off. It was the M.O. all over the country. In any other walk of life, wouldn't that person be fired and authorities notified?

To this day I don't think the Catholic Church has been very forthcoming or apologetic about what happened in the past, and hasn't made me feel comfortable anything has substantially changed.

Not that I am condoning what happened but there are PEDOPHILES in ALL denominations and across all walks of life. This happens in the Lutheran, Mormon, Jewish, Strip-Mall, EVERY faith. They just haven't gotten caught so the press hasn't been able to jump all over them. This in not exclusive to the Catholic church.

 

[JennyMominRI]

Not that I am condoning what happened but there are PEDOPHILES in ALL denominations and across all walks of life. This happens in the Lutheran, Mormon, Jewish, Strip-Mall, EVERY faith. They just haven't gotten caught so the press hasn't been able to jump all over them. This in not exclusive to the Catholic church.

Part of the problem is that the Catholic Church is the largest single religious denomination on the planet and in the US...There are 10 Priests to every one Baptist minister..The law of averages says that there will be more Catholic Priests that molest people,simply because of the fact there are more priests than any other clergy

 

[Crankyshank]

I'm going to a wedding next month between a Catholic and a Quaker that is being held in a Catholic church in the infamous arch diocese of Boston. So if that's a newly implemented rule, it's either not being enforced universally amongst the Church or it's not fully established yet.

I had a full mass at my wedding in the Church and I married a Baptist (non practicing). My DH only had to pledge to allow me to practice my religion and to baptize our children Catholic.

 

[bananiem]

Not that I am condoning what happened but there are PEDOPHILES in ALL denominations and across all walks of life. This happens in the Lutheran, Mormon, Jewish, Strip-Mall, EVERY faith. They just haven't gotten caught so the press hasn't been able to jump all over them. This in not exclusive to the Catholic church.

The assistant pastor at my in-law's Presbyterian church was caught and convicted. Not one word in the newspaper. And it was a town of 7000 people. I guess they figured word of mouth was good enough.

 

[beattyfamily]

I've seen a lot of posts that I don't understand on the subject of Catholicism. Why is there so much animosity toward the religion from other Christians?

FTR - I was raised Catholic but no longer practice. We attend another Christian Church but they are not hostile to the Catholic Church.

I left the Church long before the child abuse scandal and that is the thing I'm personally most angry about. But I respect that the faith has brought tremendous peace to people I love.

Think we can do this without fighting?

No, I think it will end with bickering and arguing like these threads always do. There's a lot of animosity, mis-conceptions and mis-information (as evidenced by some of these posts) when it comes to Catholicism, unfortunately. Of course, practicing, happy Catholics will want to chime in with their opinions to defend their Church. It's human nature.

I happen to love my Church with its flaws and all it's teachings and traditions.

Oh, and fyi...I practice natural family planning have 2 DDs....not 10 kids.

Carry on.

 

[sodaseller]

Part of the problem is that the Catholic Church is the largest single religious denomination on the planet and in the US...There are 10 Priests to every one Baptist minister..The law of averages says that there will be more Catholic Priests that molest people,simply because of the fact there are more priests than any other clergy

There are miscreants all over, but let there be no doubt that what occurred in the Church in the sex abuse scandal was widespread, repetitive, quasi-official and deplorable. What the offenders did themselves was heinous enough, but many, many Bishops, not just a few, permitted it to continue. That makes the scandal systemic and largely separates it from the inevitable episodic instances that will occur in every denomination. Much as it pains me it admit, my Church (to be theologically correct, the human sons and daughters in the Church hierarchy), deserve a black mark, a stain that can only be cleansed with true reform and time

 

[JennyMominRI]

There are miscreants all over, but let there be no doubt that what occurred in the Church in the sex abuse scandal was widespread, repetitive, quasi-official and deplorable. What the offenders did themselves was heinous enough, but many, many Bishops, not just a few, permitted it to continue. That makes the scandal systemic largely separates it from the inevitable episodic instances that will occur in every denomination. Much as it pains me it admit, my Church (to be theologically correct, the human sons and daughters in the Church hierarchy), deserve a black mark, a stain that can only be cleansed with true reform and time

Right>i completely left out the way the church handled the whole thing,because I thought it was a different issue...

 

[Deb in IA]

So you are saying the Catholics won't make it into heaven because they don't accept Jesus?

Since when do Catholics not accept Jesus as Savior? That's news to me.

I'm not talking about evangelizing, born-again types of conversion. I'm talking about belieiving that Jesus came to die for our sins, and give us eternal life. Isn't that what Catholics believe?

 

[beattyfamily]

The reason for this is because to Catholic communion is not symbolic.It is literal...Catholics believe they are partaking of the ACTUAL body and blood of Christ
Communion is notopen to all Catholics either..Children go through classes and have a ceremony before they can participe in the Eucharist..There are rules around communion such as not having eaten for a certain amount of hours beforehand. Not having already had communion that day..If one has unconfessed sins on their soul they are not supposed to recieve communion.I could not recieve communion for years because I'm *living in sin*(Not that there are communion police to stop me*
Communion is a privelage,even to Catholics

Just wanted to thank you for explaining Catholic doctrine so well and not being negative towards it even though you are now Jewish. I enjoy your posts on the subject.

 

[belle_of_the_ball]

after 8 years of CCD....i finished...if the final 2 years of my edu....we had "the talk"

they do promote birth control..if you are going to use it, theyd much rather have you use it that just get pregnat at 15, but they do stress not doing it at all until you are married.

They did tell us all about the priest thing, only because we need to know. They explained what it was and how we should handle a situation. They also said that these men had been forgiven by God, but should they slip again. God may not be so nice to them.

One thing i did learn(from school) is how mean Christians can be to Catholics. They complain and complain about how Catholics confess to a priest and how we kneel and everything. They have no acceptance for any religion but their own. THEN they have the nerve to moan about how nobody under stands their religion and all that. My question to them "how do you expect people to respect your religion if you dont respect theirs?"

BTW-Catholics confess to a priest because long ago it was believed that priests were closer to God than the average Joe...its traditon, obviously the other Christian churchs arent tradional (would they have broken away if they were???)

why we kneel..well, ill ask father huges when im at confession.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

He has, as well as to remain open to conversion on his part

Methinks I wouldn't be married today myself---and we are both Catholic .

That is a shame. Way to encourage converts--by having them make promises...and then still saying...ummmm, no.

 

[AnaheimGirl]

We are practicising Episcopalians. Our children attend Catholic school. When they have Mass in school, our kids have to cross their arms and get a "blessing" from the priest.

Honest question: Why would a non-Catholic family send their kids to Catholic school?

Is it because it's one of the "best" schools in the area? Assuming it's the best academically, you made a choice, academics over religious inclusion of your kids. No need to get rolly-eyed at a policy that you (presumably) knew about when you enrolled there.

 

[scubamouse]

No, I think it will end with bickering and arguing like these threads always do. There's a lot of animosity, mis-conceptions and mis-information (as evidenced by some of these posts) when it comes to Catholicism, unfortunately. Of course, practicing, happy Catholics will want to chime in with their opinions to defend their Church. It's human nature.

I happen to love my Church with its flaws and all it's teachings and traditions.

Oh, and fyi...I practice natural family planning have 2 DDs....not 10 kids.

Carry on.

Actually I'm impressed that it's still quite civil after 65 posts.

DH was raised Episcopalian and not receiving communion is his big gripe.

Thanks everyone this is really interesting!

 

[Crankyshank]

Just wanted to thank you for explaining Catholic doctrine so well and not being negative towards it even though you are now Jewish. I enjoy your posts on the subject.

ditto that. I very much enjoy Jenny's insight on topics like this.

 

[golfgal]

Since when do Catholics not accept Jesus as Savior? That's news to me.

I'm not talking about evangelizing, born-again types of conversion. I'm talking about belieiving that Jesus came to die for our sins, and give us eternal life. Isn't that what Catholics believe?

That is true but it sounded like in the post that I quoted when you told your DD that Catholics won't make it to heaven that you said they didn't accept Jesus. I was just trying to make sure I understood your other post correctly.

 

[bananiem]

Right>i completely left out the way the church handled the whole thing,because I thought it was a different issue...

I agree that how it was handled was deplorable. However, I don't understand people leaving the faith because of it. It wasn't our belief system that caused the cover-ups, it was the stigma and shame associated with the abuse. I guess I don't see how what we have been taught to believe had anything to do with the cover-up. Does that make sense?

 

[WIcruizer]

There are miscreants all over, but let there be no doubt that what occurred in the Church in the sex abuse scandal was widespread, repetitive, quasi-official and deplorable. What the offenders did themselves was heinous enough, but many, many Bishops, not just a few, permitted it to continue. That makes the scandal systemic and largely separates it from the inevitable episodic instances that will occur in every denomination. Much as it pains me it admit, my Church (to be theologically correct, the human sons and daughters in the Church hierarchy), deserve a black mark, a stain that can only be cleansed with true reform and time

Well said. It's not enough to say it happens everywhere, in all walks of life. What Soda described above is the BIG difference. Looking the other way..shuffling priests around. Denial. It was institutional, not just individuals doing terrible things. So it's deeper than what some of you indicated. If a pstor from some other church is caught, they are convicted.

 

[JennyMominRI]

Just wanted to thank you for explaining Catholic doctrine so well and not being negative towards it even though you are now Jewish. I enjoy your posts on the subject.

The Catholic Church is my *parent* so to speak..IT brought me to a love of G-d..There are things I miss about it. I just could never be a Christian again.. I'm also really big on trying to correct misinformation. You will find me do it on Jehovah's Witnesses too.. If you don't agree with a religion fine,but I hope people disagree with a treue understanding of the beliefs,KWIM?

 

[sodaseller]

Methinks I wouldn't be married today myself---and we are both Catholic .

That is a shame. Way to encourage converts--by having them make promises...and then still saying...ummmm, no.

It has caused much consternation in the family, as you might imagine. Thanks for the kind thoughts. On a positive front, I cannot say enough about the heroism of our pastor, who, after we lost my MIL, came to the house at 5am and sat with my FIL for hours and has visited him many times in the last two weeks to help him through this difficult time. One of the truly frustrating aspects of an abuse of clerical authority is that there are just so many wonderful priests out there truly doing God's work

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I'm not talking about evangelizing, born-again types of conversion. I'm talking about belieiving that Jesus came to die for our sins, and give us eternal life. Isn't that what Catholics believe?

YES--in fact, we say it during mass every week (or most every week--in our church it sometimes gets dropped for other things that accomplish the same task--A baptism for example--usually the congregation will renew the promises of baptism as part of that sacrament).

(emphasis is mine)

Nicene Creed

I believe in God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible. And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God, born of the Father before all ages. God of God; Light of Light; true God of true God; begotten, not made; consubstantial with the Father, by Whom all things were made. Who, for us men, and for our salvation, came down from heaven and was incarnate by the Holy Ghost of the Virgin Mary: and was made Man. He was crucified also for us, suffered under Pontius Pilate, and was buried. The third day He rose again according to the Scriptures; and ascended into Heaven, and sitteth at the right hand of the Father: from thence He shall come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, of whose kingdom there shall be no end.

And I believe in the Holy Ghost, the Lord the Giver of Life, who proceedeth from the Father and the Son: Who together with the Father and the Son is worshipped and glorified; Who spoke by the Prophets. I believe in One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. I confess one Baptism for the remission of sins. And I look to the Resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen.

Now if Catholics don't believe that Jesus died for our sins--why the heck would we make such statements?