What's the likelihood of Disney treating resale and original buyers differently?

[jboysen]

We bought resale last year, and when we recieved our member cards in the mail it says members since 05/04. So this is something that IF done would only be for really future resale buyers. I don't think they would want to go through each past contract to to see if it was a resale. Too much time and energy for what?

 

[disneynutz]

We bought resale last year, and when we recieved our member cards in the mail it says members since 05/04. So this is something that IF done would only be for really future resale buyers. I don't think they would want to go through each past contract to to see if it was a resale. Too much time and energy for what?

The 5/4 date is when the contract was originally purchased from Disney. DVD keeps track of all contract detail. Every time we buy resale we get a call from our Guide and he has all of our info in the computer, who we bought from and how much we paid.

 

[kimberh]

Talk about confusing, I've bought contracts for the same resorts, resale and from Disney. How would they handle people like me? I'm sure I'm not the only one in the World of Disney to do this. Have the same guide.

 

[Chuck S]

I really think if Disney were concerned, the first thing they would eliminate is the old VB contracts continuing the subsidy on the dues if they are sold. I'm not aware of any legal reason it would need to be passed on to a resale buyer, as the original lower dues contract was presented to the original buyer, not the person who buys it resale.

 

[Dean]

My opinion is DVC will almost certainly establish some type of differential going forward and that differential will be enough to make people think about whether to purchase resale even with the savings. While I think it's likely they would grandfather existing owners who got in resale, there is no requirement they do so legal or otherwise. I think many who say it wouldn't be much different are making way too many assumptions. No reason to roll out such a program if it's not different enough to push more people toward retail than currently buys and it might even be aimed at encouraging a new retail purchase.

Those that say there isn't anything they could take away that would matter are thinking far too limited and making far too many assumptions. Simply going on things that other companies have done and are doing, here are some possibilities.

A new program that includes options such as the following:

• A priority booking window
• The ability to use points for DCL, DC, etc and removing that option from current members.
• The ability to pay DDP, tickets, even dues with points.
• A special easier number to call
• Access to new resorts while blocking access by others.
• Pass and other discounts.
• A special check in desk/number.
• late checkout.
• Instituting transaction fees for borrowing, banking, transers and the like while reducing or waiving them for some.
• allow combining of contracts but not for resale.

The list could go on. Certainly we could argue each point as to how effective or likely it'd be but I think everyone would agree that such a program would make you think twice if you were buying. I know some will say they'd sell if these things happened but doesn't really hurt DVD or DVC unless it's a mass exoduse which hasn't happened with other systems when they made such moves and wouldn't happen with DVC.

Those who say this can't legally be done for existing owners are resorts are simply wrong though I think it's likely they would be grandfathered. All you are guaranteed is what's in the POS for your resort. So yes they couldn't take away from the reservation options at your home resort but they absolutely could for the other resorts in the club. They could also set up fees that would be waived for certain people.

Chuck, not sure about the subsidies, it really depends on the specifics. I suspect there are only 3 possibilities. It would either be at risk for removal from the original owner, required to pass through to the new owner OR be written in that it might not pass to the new owner.

 

[CMOORE185]

We are interested in purchasing a resale DVC membership, but have been told by others, second-hand, that Disney is considering treating members who purchased on the resale market differently than those who purchase direct through Disney (i.e. shorter windows, lower discounts, etc.). Has anyone heard anything like this?

Thanks for any insights (and reassurances).

There has been no indication what so ever that Disney is even thinking about something like this. I see no real upside to Disney to do this. It would devalue everyones ownership and may even hurt new sales if everyone knows there is less value in reselling your points. I think Disney wants the value to stay as high possible, and they have some control over this with ROFR. I think the value is going down now because the economy has flooded the market with resale and Disney cannot buy as much back as they would like to.

 

[Dean]

There has been no indication what so ever that Disney is even thinking about something like this. I see no real upside to Disney to do this. It would devalue everyones ownership and may even hurt new sales if everyone knows there is less value in reselling your points. I think Disney wants the value to stay as high possible, and they have some control over this with ROFR. I think the value is going down now because the economy has flooded the market with resale and Disney cannot buy as much back as they would like to.

Part of the point would be to hurt resales and in turn the values for resales would go down. This is not necessarily a deterent to such a change and in many aspects would be the core reason for many such changes. Many other companies are more successful selling their resorts with essentially no resale market or value thus IMO having a weaker resale market will not hurt sales significantly. While it could be done in a way to hurt new sales, it would be easy to do it in such a way to increase new sales and add ons. I'm sure there would be some that were turned off by whatever decisions came about and might not buy due to it but they have to look at the overall profit and sales. If they don't sell 10% of the points they would otherwise sell without the changes but sell 20% points to others due to the changes, it's a win. That someone here on this or other BBS says they'll sell and tell everyone they know not to buy really means nothing.

As I noted on another similar thread recently, Disney is good at making such changes and putting a positive spin on them such that most people are not that unhappy and those that are unhappy enough to fight it in some way would be minimal.

As to no indications, I would not agree. There have been rumblings and at least one DVC survey related somewhat to the topic. Whether that means something will happen, I don't know but I do expect that something will eventually along these lines.

 

[JimC]

I expect DVC would think long and hard about its program -- as are other timeshare developers. This probably extends to the entire leisure industry. What kind of leisure market will exist going forward? What offerings will sell? At what price points? Packaged how? With what amenities? The market has changed, and no one knows just how this will play out.

Marriott just took a significant write-off on its timeshare business. It was mostly allocated to the Ritz Carlton fractional and whole ownership interests. The high end market has disappeared according to Bill Marriott. If he is correct, what will become of the Four Seasons project at WDW?

DVC has changed over the years and will continue to do so. If there are changes, Hawaii might be a good place to test them.

 

[Coach81]

We were resale buyers.. we have been treated as if we've always been DVC owners, and have not had any complaints!!!

 

[littlestar]

For me, I'd still be happy as long as I can book my SSR points and use them at SSR. There's nothing that they can do to me (other than mess with my ability to use my SSR points at my home resort) that really matters to me. So when I say there's nothing of great value to take away, I'm talking about me personally.

Other people may have bought their points to use them in a different way. I bought mine because I like SSR and if that's where I stay every WDW trip, I'm fine with it. And if Disney started messing with my ability to book my home resort, then I wouldn't want anything to do with DVC if that happened. There's plenty of other great places to stay in Orlando or I'd just go back to renting a regular room through CRO and chasing discounts.

 

[tjkraz]

If you read through this thread, DVC has already considered implementing a multi-tiered system. In this case they were surveying members on a system that would grant additional perks to high-point owners (or referrers.) It's not much of a stretch to limit that "club" to only members who bought direct.

If DVC can just turn few extra sales--or convince buyers to add a few more points--administering such a system would pay for itself in no time. Any additional disclaimers or disclosure required by such a system would no-doubt be buried in the POS or other documents which 95% of buyers don't bother to read.

That said, at the present time DVC isn't even interested in limiting "member perks" to just members. They're granted to renters, friends, relatives...anyone staying in a DVC room. That doesn't exactly suggest concern over who gets which benefits.

However these DVC contracts run for a loooong time and it's entirely feasible (IMO) that their philosophy toward such things will change over time. A direct buyers-only club may seem far-fetched today but will it in 5 years? 10 years? 20 years?

 

[drusba]

We were resale buyers.. we have been treated as if we've always been DVC owners, and have not had any complaints!!!

"and have not had any complaints!!!" So what are you doing to get treated better than the rest of us.

 

[bobbiwoz]

If you read through this thread, ..
That said, at the present time DVC isn't even interested in limiting "member perks" to just members. They're granted to renters, friends, relatives...anyone staying in a DVC room. That doesn't exactly suggest concern over who gets which benefits.

...

My DSis, not a member but staying on points this week...tried to buy one additional Discounted MNSSHP for last night. I had picked 2 up for her, I am a member and did show my card when I picked them up last month and mailed them to her. Another friend decided to go with her, so she needed another ticket. She was asked for the blue member card...was told that the room key wasn't good enough because people complained that "renters" were getting the discount. I don't know who complained, but that's what she was told.

Bobbi

 

[kimberh]

We traded for a week at Grand Cayman last July with our Timeshare from Tn. The Concierge Service at the Resort would not even help members as per Complaints on a Internet Board if they bought resale. When I tried to get help, they looked at my information, and said " this is your 4th stay with us" I said "yes." RCI has a once in four year stay policy. I book it every four years. Last year we had two 2 Bedrooms booked and my mother had one. They were so rude to me, would not help me, but when it was my mother's turn, they could not have been nicer. Nice to new RCI first timers. Want to sell a new Villa, but cut all help to previous RCI and Resale Villas owners. The funny thing is, This came back to bite them, we really did go with the intention of buying one that trip.
I wrote them up when I returned home to RCI and on the Internet Board. I hope Disney will never treat people like that. It will come back and hurt them. We made our own reservations, as we had been to Grand Cayman 5 times in the past. So did not hurt us, but what if we had not be familiar with the Island? There are many people that rent DVC that are not familiar with Disney at all. Many renters do turn into owners. I hope DVD remembers this. I am one.